Unions Wtf

[jrsxj98]

man there is some ignorance flying around in here.

First off It is not illegal for unions to strike, granted our lovely government has made it harder to strike.

Second their are a few that take advantage of unions. But im sure there are freeloaders in your non union jobs.

Third most people who rag on unions have no clue. I am a local chairman for United Transportion Union #945, and grew up in a union house hold. Unions have played a vital role in securing better wages, health care, and safe work enviroments for their rank and file members. With out unions everyone would start treating their employees like Walmart. Granted most of you probably dont think I deserve to make the money I make, but I thank all my brothers and sisters before me for that. We are in the middle of a contract neg. right now and the BNSF (supported by the lovely Bush administration) wants to limit train crews to one person. If it were not for UTU PAC Amtrak more than likely would have lost its government funding and been privitized, calculting to unkown amont of lost jobs.

Now some everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and Im not saying you arent. But unions do serve their purpose.

 

[JohnJohn]

real big pro-anti union.

That's as clear as mud :kissyou:

 

[5-90]

man there is some ignorance flying around in here.

Just to make sure - am I misinforming anyone? If I am, I'd like to be corrected - just so I've got it right for next time...

OK, so I'm crazy - but I'd like to have my information straight when I start talking.

5-90

 

[JohnJohn]

man there is some ignorance flying around in here.

First off It is not illegal for unions to strike, granted our lovely government has made it harder to strike.

Second their are a few that take advantage of unions. But im sure there are freeloaders in your non union jobs.

Third most people who rag on unions have no clue. I am a local chairman for United Transportion Union #945, and grew up in a union house hold. Unions have played a vital role in securing better wages, health care, and safe work enviroments for their rank and file members. With out unions everyone would start treating their employees like Walmart. Granted most of you probably dont think I deserve to make the money I make, but I thank all my brothers and sisters before me for that. We are in the middle of a contract neg. right now and the BNSF (supported by the lovely Bush administration) wants to limit train crews to one person. If it were not for UTU PAC Amtrak more than likely would have lost its government funding and been privitized, calculting to unkown amont of lost jobs.

Now some everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and Im not saying you arent. But unions do serve their purpose.

Please explain to my how my County is going to abuse teachers that would be unprotected without the teachers union? Also explain to me why flight attendents need unions? Grocery workers? It's getting a little much.

 

[flexjay87]

weren't the unions started by organized crime? not a real good start if true, huh. anyhow these companies, cities, etc.,are the ones who are stupid enough to allow unions in and will suffer the consequences if strikes are allowed. town i live in now has a billboard that says" carpenters deserve a good union wage" . hey is it just the carpenters that deserve a good wage or can the rest of us be on the list too. the MARKET should decide who gets paid what, not some holier than thou guys, holding a company hostage. if New York can pay a good wage with a union, then they can afford to pay a good wage without one. will they, well if they want good work to be done they will have to shell out. unions could be good if reasonable, but that never seems to be in the cards. General Motors in recent years have cosolidated their suppliers into a company called Delphi, you may have heard of the company. anyhow they are or will soon be in bankruptsy. i don't know all the details but, the guy they hired to turn things around is going to slash wages and benefits for many of the hourly workers(i know you union guys are thinkin SEE,SEE that 's why you need a union. well they have one) anyhow many managers are keepin most of their pay(don't quote me on all this remember i said i don't know all the behind the scenes stuff) reason for this is, there are wages for the non educated (union guys) and there are better market wages for magement levels. by sheer numbers, average "joe" is costing the company more than others. listen i'm not sayin i like it, heck i even wish i was union sometimes, but it is for selfish reasons i guess, some are reasonable though, like i would like a better retirement or guaranteed, but in the long run i know it's probably up to me. maybe i would make a good union guy, because i'm too scared to start my own company, who knows. having said all that, i really don't blame those for doin whatever they can, to survive. there is no perfect solution, i guess. i do know this, working hard has got nothing to do with how much you get paid, if that were true, the carpenter would get much more than the architect. it usually boils down to intelligence, good luck and workin hard at gettin a good payin job. on the other hand it does tick me off when someone can knock you out of a job with no seniority, i guess a union would be good in that case. i would say union philosophy can be bad, i just wish it didn't affect good people,(on both sides). seems like i'm waffling doesn't it? education is your friend, some of us learn that way too late in life....... i live in a college town now, and it is true, there are educated idiots, for sure. but they are smart enough to get paid way too much, for the amount of actual work they do.

 

[jrsxj98]

Please explain to my how my County is going to abuse teachers that would be unprotected without the teachers union? Also explain to me why flight attendents need unions? Grocery workers? It's getting a little much.

Most of the above are already under paid as it is especially teachers, and we wont begin to talk about fireman and law enforcement. Unions are ment to secure better wage, safer work enviroments, better health care for employee etc. Most of the above you mention have had unions since before we were around. I have several friends who belong to the grocery workers union, and I will stand up and defend them, cause I have seen first hand what they are trying to do to their jobs, wanting employees with numerous years of senority to to give up their cost of living raises, yet most companies are producing record profits. MTA for instance had a 1 million dollar budget surplus last year, yet they dont feel they need to contribute to a new employees pension as much as a senior employees.

Just remember there is two sides to every story, most of what I have read on the MTA strike is put out by MTA not by the Union, so alot of the news coverage is gonna be leaning towards the non union side.

as for abusing teachers in your county, I have no idea what is going on in your county, but I am sure they would offer lower starting wages, lower benefits etc.

Dont get me wrong I am not saying that unions are always right, and are the all mighty but most of the time all we hear about is this union is screwing another employer, not how the company has screwed the union employees out of proper payment of contract binding issues.

 

[goodburbon]

my first wife went to work for Acme wireless corp, they hired her from their standard temp agency. When they hired her as a temp (which was an employees 3 month probationary period) she was making $12 an hour to start. then after 3-months Acme decided to hire her. She was then FORCED to join the union if she wanted to keep the job. Union pay was only $9 an hour, out of which they then took their dues for negotiating such a wonderful job for her.

5 months later she became disabled, but disability pensions aren't effective until they had been an employee for 6 months, they promptly fired her while she was on sick leave when they found out she wasn't going to be ok.

Unions can suck my a$$
Acme wireless can suck my a$$

oh and social security approved her disability (after denying it)........a year after she was dead

unions kill profitable businesses, and marginalize outstanding employees by putting them on the same pay rate as marginal employees.

Unions have outgrown themselves

 

[jrsxj98]

my first wife went to work for Acme wireless corp, they hired her from their standard temp agency. When they hired her as a temp (which was an employees 3 month probationary period) she was making $12 an hour to start. then after 3-months Acme decided to hire her. She was then FORCED to join the union if she wanted to keep the job. Union pay was only $9 an hour, out of which they then took their dues for negotiating such a wonderful job for her.

5 months later she became disabled, but disability pensions aren't effective until they had been an employee for 6 months, they promptly fired her while she was on sick leave when they found out she wasn't going to be ok.

Unions can suck my a$$
Acme wireless can suck my a$$

oh and social security approved her disability (after denying it)........a year after she was dead

unions kill profitable businesses, and marginalize outstanding employees by putting them on the same pay rate as marginal employees.

Unions have outgrown themselves

sounds to me like Acme wireless is on a mission to try and bust the union......sorry to hear about your experience.

 

[jrsxj98]

Just to make sure - am I misinforming anyone? If I am, I'd like to be corrected - just so I've got it right for next time...

OK, so I'm crazy - but I'd like to have my information straight when I start talking.

5-90

No sir at least you are looking at it from both sides of the table.

 

[5-90]

No sir at least you are looking at it from both sides of the table.

Thanks - just checking. I have my reputation for "fair and balanced" reporting to look after, you see...

Granted, I take a somewhat slanted view on some issues, but even that was rationally considered long ago, you know.

5-90

 

[Bent]

First off It is not illegal for unions to strike

SPOBI, it very well can be.

 

[5-90]

Yes, it can - IF a law is passed making it illegal for unions to strike, and IF said union is composed of persons who provide a service deemed 'vital.' Ever see what happens when healthcare workers strike? There are a significant number of them still on the job - but coverage isn't what it should be, and the time span of the strike is set out in advance (and usually not more than three days - just enough to make the point.)

Cops probably aren't allowed to strike ANYWHERE in the country - not without similar provisions (reduced coverage, defined strike time, &c.)

Still and all, a strike can be a valuable negotiation tool - it gives a counter to the county/company/whatever digging in their heels. It is also worth noting that a strike is planned as a response to "retrograde motion" on behalf of the other party - the union can't cover wages during a strike (usually,) and that means reduced or NO compensation for the striking workers.

Most unions have a "strike fund," but it only provides for a short-term compensation, and it's typically a small percentage of full wage or a previously-determined set amount (enough to provide food and fuel - and not much else. I don't recall specifics, but I do recall thinking "I hope we don't strike." It largely depends upon the union and the local.)

But can it be made illegal to strike? Certainly. Can you get fired for striking? Read your contract - it's possible (that is negotiated separately of law, and per contract cycle.)

Do unions kill businesses? I suppose they might - but it should be borned in mind that a union exists to protect the workers' interests, not the Company's.

Recommended reading - The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Granted, it's a long time ago, but it's what happened before unions got going, and someone took an interest in protecting the workers - who make the Company profitable...

5-90

 

[Darky]

I just think unions ought to scale back some. As was mentioned about GM, union health care and retirement wages are killing that company. People piss and moan about why can't GM put the money into developing a good car, its because they have no money left...I agree unions have their place, but they also have to keep things realistic, ie: look at it from both sides. Capitalism is based on a company being able to decide how much its going to pay its employees and how much in benefits so as to keep the company profitable.

 

[5-90]

No argument there - I just wish the companies could strike a balance between "being profitable" and "profiteering" - seems to me that too much costs too much for too little, and there's not much that we - the consumer - can do about it without buying goods made overseas (which aren't much better...)

I've never been afraid to pay a little more for something that's made well - as long as I feel like I'm getting what I paid for. But, when it comes to paying too much for something, I'm inclined to wonder why.

I think the idea of a "minimum wage" is going to ruin this economy. By raising the minimum wage regularly, we drive up the cost of production for absolutely EVERYTHING - thereby devaluing the dollar a little more each time. Then we buy more made overseas - which contributes to the growing trade deficit. (You think the Pacific rim buys anything from us? Nowhere near as much as we buy from them, I'll wager...) As a result, the dollar goes a little bit less - because we've devalued it with the increase in minimum wage, the increase in tax base, and the increase in trade deficit.

You know who makes more money when the minimum wage goes up? The IRS - because they collect the higher taxes that result. No, increasing the minimum wage may look good on paper - but it won't (and never really has, come to think of it) help anything.

I'll have to work on my economic monograph - but I find it interesting to note that, after talking with me for 10-15 minutes on the subject, I've been able to get Econ majors to change their major to something a little more concrete - like Engineering.

Y'ask me, the current world economy is a mass hallucination wrapped in pure fiction - and it will remain so until brought under control. How to bring it to heel, you ask? I don't think it's a total solution, but a return to "specie" money is a damn good start.

And - here's the best part - it has really nothing to do with the Unions. Go figure.

5-90

 

[8Mud]

Unions in themselves aren't bad, but like most everything else they get corrupted.
You look at most companies and there are way to many people in management. Office drones, that just take up office space. And when a company gets strapped for cash, they rarely start layoffs in the office. Or start by cutting entitlements to office staff.
Management wants the most profit, with the lowest overhead. Unions typically want the most for the workers, with little or no thought to the overall health of the company (they are often very near sighted and narrow in there goals).
From my understanding the transportation workers haven't had a raise in two years. And just for an index, the price of gas has doubled in that time.
They will probably compromise and if they are like most every other company I've worked for. Start laying off maintenance workers, till things turn to chit. Then float a bond to buy new s$pff. Rob Peter to pay Paul. Txdy will figure ?pt a way to postpone the debt.

 

[Kittrell]

Re: Unions Wt

TUOTE=j"qxj88]
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First off It is not illegal for unions to strike, granted our lovdly &gvernme~p h`s mde it harder to utrike.

[/QT@TE]

I didn't say it was illegal for all unions to strike, but some do have it writt¥b into Dheir contract.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

I was a teamster for a while (part time at UPS) in college. Can't complain about them. I later moved up to supervisor and saw a different view. While most people showed up to work, others took advantage of every opportunity to fall back on the union card.

I now work in the automotive industry. Our country is controlled by the American automotive industry. If automotive business is good, the American economy is good and vise versa.

The American automotive industry is dying. There are a lot of reasons for this, but a very big one is the UAW. I've been to major automotive manufacturer plants and my experience is the same as BRIANHO's; the UAW is a crutch and a thorn in the side of automotive manufacturers.

Some recent facts I read in a major industry periodical...

The average portion of the cost of a new car produced by GM that goes to health care - $1000 per car.

The average portion of the cost of a new car produced by Toyota that goes to health care - $400 per car.

On average the Toyota worker (all non-union BTW) makes more money and has better benefits, while contributing less than the UAW employed GM worker.

Also, Toyota (and other foreign manufacturers) are bringing more jobs to the US, while GM and the other 2 are sending more jobs to Mexico and elsewhere. Toyota recently raised vehicle prices to allow GM to compete, because GM going under is also very bad for all the others.

I call them like I see them and I see this every day.

Unions have their place, but some of them need to be taken down a peg or two.

JMHO.

 

[BRIANHO13]

Most of the above are already under paid as it is especially teachers, and we wont begin to talk about fireman and law enforcement.

While I agree most firemen and police officers are underpaid, I disagree with th e teacher comment. If you break it down the hours worked versus pay teachers make a pretty good wage. Yes, they should make a little more, but no one stops them from getting a job during the summer. and b4 you give me crap for this comment my wife's mom and several of my friend's wives are teachers.

Don't get caught up in the annual salary, look at hourly.

 

[XJ Dreamin']

While I agree most firemen and police officers are underpaid, I disagree with th e teacher comment. If you break it down the hours worked versus pay teachers make a pretty good wage. Yes, they should make a little more, but no one stops them from getting a job during the summer. and b4 you give me crap for this comment my wife's mom and several of my friend's wives are teachers.

Don't get caught up in the annual salary, look at hourly.

Just wanted to check: Are you counting the hours spent at home on evenings and weekends grading papers and compiling work plans? The starting salary for teachers around here is in the 20k range. Pretty tight as a yearly salary, let alone converted to hourly wages.

 

[XJ Dreamin']

Lets everyone go back to 1920. What was the standard of living for a worker in your profession?

Now, lets abolish unions. Come back to me in 80 years and let me know how your grand kids are doing living in the company town, shopping at the company store.