Turbo charged 4.0 xj

[Atom]

This is not my own shame-less plug, but I do know the guy who built these. If I could afford this supercharger..its what I would buy. Check out this link: http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/01july/avenger.asp
Ed has been building these for over 5 years now and the newest ones are like 4th generation... I am saving my penies!

 

[czb83]

Just wondering if anybody backed up the pictures, or if the orignal site can be put back up? I thought I had backed it up to my computer but can't find them. I've looking to go turbo and was going to follow a similiar route.

 

[workaholic]

what do yall think of this turbo for a 4.0 cherokee application?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-genuine-GARRETT-T3-T04E-Turbo-PORTED-TURBOCHARGER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ8026695269QQrdZ1

from ad
SPECS:

*
T04E 57 trim Compressor, 0.70 a/r (400+HP)
*
center section: Dynamic seal, oil cooled, Hi precision balanced to 0,3gr. at 2500 RPM!
*
T3 turbine, 72 trim wheel (STG1), 0.48 a/r housing, Ported bypass hole,
*
customizable with 0.63 turbine, watercoolig, 360 thrust, int.wastegate, block off flange on demand.

i see watercooling under the customiable part. I'm assuming this means I can change out something in the turbo to get this? I don't want to go this route and would like to keep it simply oil cooled. I'm also wondering about the interval wastegate. What are the disadvantages of internal vs external wastegate?

That turbo should do quite well for a 4.0 I would not be surprised if you were hitting full boost by 2000rpms. That is about the same size turbo many e30 bmw owners run on their cars and acheive full boost about 3000rpms on a 2.5L SOHC inline six. All thought I haven't seen where someone has put a .63 turbine into a .48 housing before, thats a bit different.

Tom

 

[workaholic]

I had a post about turbos going earlier. I think the reasons against twin turbos are:
1) space requirements
2) tubing/plumbing/whatever you want to call it
3) thermal efficiency

Having just 1 large turbo I think somebody also said spools faster....search for a thread I posted about a turbo kit for an XJ (or just search under my handle).

I was convinced I was going twin turbo, but now will only go 1, due to responses to my questions.

Don't forget an intercooler, and if you can, get everything ceramic coated. It will help with spool time and power - keeping the exhaust gases hot will help to keep backpressure to a minimum - and especialliy low RPM response.

If you can REALLY afford it, get all forged internals, run high compression (~9.0:1 or higher) to help keep low RPM torque, you're gonna need some good freaking gas and/or octane booster and/or alcohol injection for this.

I dont know who said a single turbo will spool faster than twins but they dont understand how a twin turbo system works. There are two types; Biturbo and sequential turbo systems. Biturbo most commonly being used on the the Audi s4 2.7L v6 motor that is two of the same turbo, each one feeding half of the engine. Then you have a sequential system most widely known on that of twin turbo supra's those when designed correctly has a small turbo that spools up fast and takes care of the low end then right when that turbo runs out of steem there is a very large turbo in place to take over on the top end. The main difference between a twin turbo system and a Single turbo system is the amount of power that can be produced, a single turbo is far more efficient (less parts to move essentially) and thus has a higher power output potential. The problem with doing any variety of twin turbo system on a jeep 4.0 is the lack of space due to that its NOT a crossflow head design. Also running that high of compression on a turbocharged motor with an iron head, iron bloc would be a no no let alone running that on a motor of that nature that does not have a crossflow head. You can keep your low end torque very easily by using a turbocharger that is properly sized to the motor (a cam ground for the application usually always helps quite a bit as well)

In reference to the heat issue that was brought up, as you said. Ceramic coat everything! But due to the design of the core support in a xj/mj there pretty much isn't any room for an air-air intercooler. You could however build a water-air intercooler and mount it on the pass side of the motor (which I have seen done with a centrifugal S/C setup on a 92 xj).

I would like to go turbo just because of the huge amount of power gains a simple turbo setup and a megasquirt (which would be dirt simple to install on a obdI 4.0) would yeild. But turbo motors mean more maintenance, that and I have a 550hp turbocharged bmw I still need to finish my build on so i've got my fix for turbos for now

Tom

 

[czb83]

Yeah, I actually never purchased the turbo yet. I've been messing around with Megasquirt for like a year now. Started running fuel and igntion control couple weeks ago, but am having random ignition 'hicups', maybe a wiring issue.

I'm still thinking of buying a rebuilt garrett from blaast performance, and they have so many sizes it looks like I can get pretty much anything. I've still leaning towards that one posted, t04e 57 trim, but with the .63 a/r turbine, to make sure it doesn't cause excess back pressure at high rpms. I'm, shooting for 7lbs of boost at the moment, though without intercooling, not sure how successful im going to be.

 

[workaholic]

Yeah, I actually never purchased the turbo yet. I've been messing around with Megasquirt for like a year now. Started running fuel and igntion control couple weeks ago, but am having random ignition 'hicups', maybe a wiring issue.

I'm still thinking of buying a rebuilt garrett from boost engineering, and they have so many sizes it looks like I can get pretty much anything. I've still leaning towards that one posted, t04e 57 trim, but with the .63 a/r turbine, to make sure it doesn't cause excess back pressure at high rpms. I'm, shooting for 7lbs of boost at the moment, though without intercooling, not sure how successful im going to be.

Givin the fact of the 4.0 being iron block/head I would go over 8psi. All though I'm no expert but that is something I would think is pretty safe due to the low compression and such of the motor. That turbo you listed may be a tad small. If i were to turbocharge the 4.0 in my MJ I would go with a .70cold/.63hot and that should yeild a pretty responsive turbo that will yeild some pretty healthy power gains on such a large displacement 6.

Tom

 

[czb83]

Well, I started reviewing flow maps again, and realized I didn't take into account pressure change from heat. I made two calculations, at 6lbs and 8lbs of boost.

Based on this website:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm

6lbs: 20.7 / 14.7 = 1.41 PR
at 75F there was 53F increase in temp from pressure increase. If I factor in 70% efficency of compressor this increase 53 to 76F. 75F ambient temp + 76 increase = 151F intake charge, no intercooler. This means at 6lbs of boost(PR 1.41) the density is
(535R / 611R) * (1.41 PR) = 1.24 Density ratio. With the engine at 85VE, max CFM is 312.
312 * 1.24 = 387CFM = 26.7lb/min.

8lbs: 22.7 / 14.7 = 1.54 PR
70F increase in temp from pressure increase. 70% compressor efficiency brings 70F to 100F. this means 75 + 100 = 175F intake temp.
(535R / 635) (1.54PR) = 1.30 Density ratio
312 * 1.30 = 406 CFM = 28lbs/min

plotting 1.24DR, 26.7lbs/min and 1.30DR, 28lbs/min on flow chart makes me rethink about my turbo choice.

I am now leaning towards t04b 62-1 trim. This looks to fit better than any of the other compressors I have looked at. If anyone has any better ideas, lemme know. I'm pretty sure that my calculations are correct, and that I'm using them correctly.

Presently, it looks like at 8lbs of boost, w/ 1.30DR I can get at most 30% more hp = ~260. If I can lower the intake charge from 175 to 125(75 ambient) with intercooler thant I could raise DR from 1.30 to 1.41 resulting in ~22hp further increase from 260 to 282(basing 200hp stock). Of course Im not taking into account pressure drop from intercooler.

heres a site with some flow maps, specifially the one im looking at is at bottom.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/FlowTO4B.html

I've done my share of research in this subject, but if anyone knows better than I, feel free to share

 

[scottsxj]

i know this is an old thread but did anyone save the pictures or could you repost them mtbkr

 

[tealcherokee]

i forgot if i posted these

 

[BBeach]

What kind of throttle body was that again?

 

[TESZJ]

What kind of throttle body was that again?

Wrong....

 

[BBeach]

Wrong....

What are you talking about? :wstupid: Im wondering what kind of throttle body he is using for this setup.

 

[Flash]

Wrong....

There is a vast a mouth of Knowledge from all direction on this sight...........BUT, YOU....... YA SURE ARE STARTING OUT ON THE "Wrong" FOOT THERE BUD.

Flash.

 

[workaholic]

where in the heck did that intercooler fit?

Tom

 

[tealcherokee]

73mm ford SHO tb

behind a custom front bumper thats not done yet

 

[Pro Stock John]

I'd run at least 24 lb injectors. I run 96 lb injectors with my 88mm turbo LS1 Formula: www.psj.ls1tech.com

 

[tealcherokee]

DUDE, we know were your fucking 88mm turbo LS1 formula is.... it was mildly cool the first time you plugged your pics.... NO ONE CARES ANYMORE

and btw w/ a turbo set up on a 4.0 or bigger youre looking at 40-80lb injectors

 

[Pro Stock John]

Come on grow up. I mentioned what I am running to show the fact that I know a little about this stuff, not to mention I own www.ls1tech.com. Back in 98-01, we used 24 lb injectors to make 300-375rwhp NA.

I ran late model GTP injectors (SC'd 3.8) when I had a 422ci LS1 stroker, and was making around 471rwhp through a locked 4L60E.

I made 745rwhp through 83 lb injectors (at a lower base fuel pressure), through an unlocked T400 trans. That was 21psi on a mild 346ci engine making 8:1 compression.

On that same 8:1 engine, I made 867rwhp at 24psi through the same unlocked 9" torque converter.

So be lame but at least realize that I have a running custom turbo setup on a car.

Back to topic. I'd run 24 to 30 lb injectors depending on how much power you think can make out a 4.0. I'd run a 255 Walbro intake as a base I think. MSD timing retard is a great idea, I have friends who have used those for 6-7 years on 93-97 LT1 cars. I have a few friends who used to run Vortech S-Trim setups on largely stock LT1 engines. Most of those guys were hitting 8-9psi and running 42lb injectors but they had bigger engines.

The end

 

[BlueBy-Usrt4]

i see that the intercooler is off a srt4 whats the turbo off?

 

[Flash]

I think the main reason why tealcherokee want such big injectors it because of the boost that he want to run(15 psi)

My thoughts.........why not run a smaller injector and then have a progressive pressure regulator to go up with boost.

mathematical fuel number may say that a.......say a #60 is what you need at top rpm with 15 psi of boost but will run way to rich at idle.

This probably isn't something that even need to be figured out yet but.....food for thought!


Flash.