Todays quick lesson Square vs Round

XJ_ranger said:
Take your cut and welded square and load it on an edge and watch it fail LONG before a round tube that is bent would fail in ANY loading direction...

?????

Section modulus of 2" x 0.25" square assuming edge radius of .5*thickness:

Flat = 0.757 in^3
Edge= 0.635 in^3

2"x0.25" round = 0.537 in^3

If the failure mode were to be bending, the square on edge still prevails...

Someone show me that in a typical control arm loading situation, the member will fail in a mode other than bending, or that I screwed up my math and the section modulus of square loaded on edge is less than tube....

Travis
 
Zebaru said:
?????

Section modulus of 2" x 0.25" square assuming edge radius of .5*thickness:

Flat = 0.757 in^3
Edge= 0.635 in^3

2"x0.25" round = 0.537 in^3

If the failure mode were to be bending, the square on edge still prevails...

Someone show me that in a typical control arm loading situation, the member will fail in a mode other than bending, or that I screwed up my math and the section modulus of square loaded on edge is less than tube....

Travis
yah, what he said!

i just know that the square stuff i have built ( radious arms, sliders, ect...) have held up well and i think astheticly the square looks better for what i use it for ( besides, its free!! :laugh3: )
 
Lincoln said:
With propper planning I could probably use the heat off the motor to smoke my crack.
Most 'motors' on our rigs won't generate enough heat without blowing a fuse.
Now the manifold on our 'engines' would probably create enough heat....I guess. :D
Okay....
I'll go back into my garage now.......

Rick

Why do they call them 'motor mounts' anyway? :D
 
An engine is a type of motor.

motor: a person or thing that imparts motion, esp. a contrivance, as a steam engine, that receives and modifies energy from some natural source in order to utilize it in driving machinery.

engine: a machine for converting thermal energy into mechanical energy or power to produce force and motion.
 
Gaius said:
An engine is a type of motor.

motor: a person or thing that imparts motion, esp. a contrivance, as a steam engine, that receives and modifies energy from some natural source in order to utilize it in driving machinery.

engine: a machine for converting thermal energy into mechanical energy or power to produce force and motion.
So what does that have to do with square vs round?
 
Mike L said:
Are your driveshafts built out of square?[/QUOT
since you asked, yes my d-shafts are suare..lol


The factor uses round because it can be balanced and round tube will generally hande twisting forces better than square tube of the same thickness
 
the glassman said:
Mike L said:
Are your driveshafts built out of square?[/QUOT
since you asked, yes my d-shafts are suare..lol


The factor uses round because it can be balanced and round tube will generally hande twisting forces better than square tube of the same thickness

Are you and KRAWL the same? If not, my question was directed at him. If so, why the need for a new name? :doh:

-Mike
 
Besides the simple fact that there is more material in square vs round, sure... square tube of the same size and wall is stronger than round. but, pound for pound, I'm kinda curious.
so maybe do the math again with like weight tubing.
2"x.120 is 2.409 lbs per foot
square tube in the same weight range would be
2"x2"x.095 is about 2.461

I'm working on learning the math. Sis in Law is a structural engineer so she made me a work sheet. just waiting for her to send me the formula for square and rectangle tube.
so what does the math say Overkill?
 
Rawbrown said:
Besides the simple fact that there is more material in square vs round, sure... square tube of the same size and wall is stronger than round. but, pound for pound, I'm kinda curious.
so maybe do the math again with like weight tubing.
2"x.120 is 2.409 lbs per foot
square tube in the same weight range would be
2"x2"x.095 is about 2.461

I'm working on learning the math. Sis in Law is a structural engineer so she made me a work sheet. just waiting for her to send me the formula for square and rectangle tube.
so what does the math say Overkill?
sorry but my math says i dont care about the weight :shhh: i really dont know the true math but i know i have never bent anything i have made out of square that i have seen bend when made out of round of the same size and thickness.:dunno: when you get the formula let me know if you would.
 
5-90 said:
"seem" /= "seam". I think you wanted to use the latter.

It's also worth noting that, when doing "hard" fabrication, DOM should not have a seam - and should be available in common "mill shapes" for tubing. The "seam" found in most tubing indicates that the tubing is either HREW - Hot Rolled Electrically Welded - or CREW - Cold Rolled Electrically Welded. The latter is slightly stronger, because of the work hardening taking place during forming. Also, CREW can be used when aesthetics are important, because most hot-rolled steel shapes develop scale while cooling (while cold-rolled does not.)

If the seam cannot be seen on the outside of the tubing, just clean a short section of the inside (about an inch or so) - which should show up the welded seam neatly.

DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) is hot-formed tubing. They take a bloom or a billet of steel (both are mill shapes, no matter what marketing wants you to believe "billet" means,) heat it until it becomes readily plastic, and then force it through a die with the desired outer shape (and a mandrel with the desired inner shape.) Then, it is allowed to cool. Typically, there is a second heating process that causes the steel to "form closed" where there would be voids due to the mandrel supports.

Now you know why DOM costs more - it's more energy-intensive to manufacture, and there is a certain amount of wear that takes place on the mandrel and the die.

5-90

Be careful!....cause there is such a thing as welded DOM. Essentially ERW that is drawn over a mandrel to promote uniformity.

-Ron
 
XXX said:
Be careful!....cause there is such a thing as welded DOM. Essentially ERW that is drawn over a mandrel to promote uniformity.

-Ron

LOL

THats funny sh1t right there....

ALL DOM IS WELDED!
AGAIN.....
"Drawn Over Mandrel Steel Tubing is formed from strip and electric resistance welded. The welded tube is subsequently normalized and cold drawn to a smaller dimension and thinner wall. The weld line disapears during the cold drawing process, causing this to product to be virtually seamless.

Due to the cold drawing process the surface is superior to that of regular seamless tubing.

DOM may be machined, formed, welded,carburized, and subjected to many other fabricating techniques."
 
Last edited:
ROBERTK said:
LOL

THats funny sh1t right there....

ALL DOM IS WELDED!
AGAIN.....

Every piece (In my limited fabrication career, not being a Tubing Engineer) I've seen, I had no problem picking out the seam. Maybe I'm just anal.......Yet they tend make you believe it's seamless!

So then, is CDS, the only "true seamless"?
 
vetteboy said:
To answer the previous question - yes, round has a better strength-to-weight ratio.
kool, but i still dont care!! :D
 
Each tube has it place. Each one has it +s and it's -s.
For control arms/slider and alike. Were the direction of stress or inpack is mostly in one demesnial. Square tube will win hands down pound for pound.
R-tubing will take a longatudegenal twist or much better when this is needed.
Each tube has it''s place.
 
badron said:
Each tube has it place. Each one has it +s and it's -s.
For control arms/slider and alike. Were the direction of stress or inpack is mostly in one demesnial. Square tube will win hands down pound for pound.
R-tubing will take a longatudegenal twist or much better when this is needed.
Each tube has it''s place.

Each tube has it's place.
Jeepers can make haikus too.
Each tube has it's place.
 
Phil said:
Each tube has it's place.
Jeepers can make haikus too.
Each tube has it's place.


whats wrong with this place
haikus are gayer than aids
semen on your face
 
You seem to be talking a lot of smack on a lot of people, on a lot of forums, dumptruck. You should probably lay off of that while some people still like you.
 
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