TNT Vs. Clayton.. FIGHT!

[BlackJax]

You guys talking bad about TNT belly pans are 2 out of hundreds without that problem. I jumped my tnt-equipped xj (trussed axles, blah blah blah) and and came down on a rock (didn't see it until it was too late). The TNT bellyskid hit it with the full weight of the XJ and we're talking .50 bmg bang bang loud, mmkay? Not even a dent. You guys are either completely full of BS or got a hold of one of the bad apples. My skid is stronger than anything on the XJ.

 

[PornstaR]

You guys talking bad about TNT belly pans are 2 out of hundreds without that problem. I jumped my tnt-equipped xj (trussed axles, blah blah blah) and and came down on a rock (didn't see it until it was too late). The TNT bellyskid hit it with the full weight of the XJ and we're talking .50 bmg bang bang loud, mmkay? Not even a dent. You guys are either completely full of BS or got a hold of one of the bad apples. My skid is stronger than anything on the XJ.

All I have to say is "WOW" you have a way with descriptions :looney:. And like "I" said I do not run one but know someone who does and has had problems with it being a little on the weak side. Also the "major" part of what i said was the accesablity of your transfercase and transmission. Also the TNT is a "pan" like you say. There is little re-inforcement on it other than a couple of small bracing spots. The Claytons is a lot stronger..... but here check out this link to the clutch job done on the TNT

http://www.pnwjeep.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5906&highlight=clutch+matts

Now try doing this in your driveway with about 6 or so jackstands. Claytons you will remove not one bolt from the suspension. :doh:

I really dont care what anyone buys, just putting out the word on what i have seen.

 

[Yoda]

ive thinking of doing the same swap with the claytons long arm setup, but would you all recommend beefing up the frame rails b4 welding up the crossmember?

or is that just too much welding for it? cus it does kinda make me a little scared to weld on that thin frame rail.

and to keep on topic...........I Vote for claytons.

 

[JonnyK]

IMO, one of the advantages of the XJ vs. the TJ I used to own is the rear leaf springs. I think they make the vehicle more stable when climbing steep stuff. I've seen several TJ's that were converted to leaf springs in the rear and there's even a lift kit available for them now that does just that. Sure, the coil conversion will give you more flex, but is it worth it?

Now between a standard Clayton's kit and TNT, that's a tough choice. I personally ended up going with TNT for several reasons:
1) The integrated belly pan
2) The y-link arms (which are not higher than my driveshaft with the HP30 BTW)
3) The 3.5" leaf springs combined with the u-bolt eliminators and boomerang shackles instead of doing it all with springs

I've been totally happy with it so far. Dropping the belly pan is more work, but it's not that bad. I just block the front wheels, ubolt the pan from the Jeep but leave it attached to arms and let it hang down. That gives you enough room to service stuff or, in my case, setup the shift linkages for my double t-case setup.

I'm sure I would have been happy with Clayton's kit also. I've seen his stuff work extremely well. So, just flip a coin.

 

[FiFo]

You guys talking bad about TNT belly pans are 2 out of hundreds without that problem. I jumped my tnt-equipped xj (trussed axles, blah blah blah) and and came down on a rock (didn't see it until it was too late). The TNT bellyskid hit it with the full weight of the XJ and we're talking .50 bmg bang bang loud, mmkay? Not even a dent. You guys are either completely full of BS or got a hold of one of the bad apples. My skid is stronger than anything on the XJ.

I'm one of the two cases of bent TNT Belly pans up here in the NW that KarlVP mentioned. I got high centered on a large rock and was sitting directly on the skid; I had to eventually be winched off it. As you can see in the pic below my skid was definitely bent.

Now, I'm sure if the skid had not been there I would probably be in the market for a new T-case, so in effect it served its purpose. But for the price I paid for this thing I don't feel it should have bent. If I had to do my lift all over again I would go a different wrought.

 

[bobnoxious]

I've installed both. Clayton wins hands down.

-TNT belly pan is a royal PITA
-I'm not impressed with any of the welds on TNT stuff... Clayton stuff always looks top notch
-Bent arms might look cool...but has anyone EVER seen someone stuck or unable to make an obstacle due to the arms dragging??
-Clayton's uses easily replaced rubber bushings at the axle end
-Clayton's doesn't use those poorly fitting "u-bolt eliminators"
-Clayton actually knows what size shock to send you based on use of his basic kit
-Clayton will probably be the guy answering the phone and talking to you

The TNT kit isn't junk by any means...the Clayton kit is just better.

 

[MoabXJeeper]

I am running the TNT which is a WHOLE lot better than what I had before! You can remove the front DS without removing the belly pan...it is just kind of a pain. This kit gives me great flex and stability offroad, that is all.

 

[HeavyMetal]

-Clayton will probably be the guy answering the phone and talking to you

who do you think answers at TNT? the guys names arent "TNT" but its not like they outsource to india............

 

[fubar XJ]

Well if getting a TNT kit I might can get one more for $800 shipped and I mean I can get it to you in 1-2 weeks. Just a nFYI from a guy who found a source

Are you sure it's $800 for the TNT kit? Last I saw it was $800 for just the belly pan and arms. Springs, shocks and hardware should put you in the $1600-$2K range

I paid $2200 for the Clayton 6.5" kit with shocks. I thought I got a good deal.

 

[adamusmc2002]

only heard good things about the claytons. no personal experience, but word of mouth for me says claytons.

 

[GSequoia]

-Bent arms might look cool...but has anyone EVER seen someone stuck or unable to make an obstacle due to the arms dragging?

Yes, yes I have on more than one occasion (It's an out west thing )

Now I know it's probably too late but what the hell, I just saw this and do have some experience on the TNT Kit.

To start with I do not have any experience with the Clayton kit, let's get that out of the way right now...

I have chose TNT for clearance, my Jeep has gobs of clearance down below and for my style wheeling that is one of the most crucial things, again I'm talking about West Coast rocks wheeling.

Now, let's clear up some possible SPOBI...

The TNT Belly pan / Y-Link arm mount is beefy. It's made out of 1/4" steel and has a LOT of internal bracing. The only explanation I can give for the bent one pictured above is either it was a very hard hit (were they winching you DOWN? As in the winch was adding extra force to the pan) or maybe he got it way in the beginning and there has been a revision change. I do not see me bending mine without serious work.

Now one thing that irritates me. People go out and buy armor, steering, whatever, they wheel it, bend it, then get on here talking about how crappy it is. That's bullshit. EVERYTHING will bend and I've seen just about all of it bend. Sorry for the diversion of the topic but the never satisfied customer crowd irritates me...

Let's talk build quality of the TNT Y-Link kit (Not of the U-Bolt eliminator or anything aside from the front suspension, I don't have those products as they didn't exist!). On my kit all welds looked fantastic. That is welds on the arms, belly pad, track bar, and track bar mount. The products fit perfect without modification. This includes the frame stiffiners, the 45 degree bends were placed perfectly and the notches to allow bending (to follow the frame rail) were perfectly placed.

Installation of the Y-Link isn't easy, I'll give you that. The two hardest parts of the job for me were the drilling the side of hte frame rails (for the extra bracing) and cutting off the old lower control arm mounts. The instructions Bob provides are perfect and even I had no trouble drilling the frame in the correct spots (I've always been bad at blind drilling). Take your time with the lower control arm mount removal as you don't want to cut into the frame.

The stiffiners are an easy install and go on very well. Just make sure you are good at welding dissimilar thickness metal together (3/16" to the unibody sheetmetal) so you don't blow too many holes in the faux-frame rails.

On performance. The Y-Link kit performs extremely well. The ride on the highway is about as smooth as a lifted Jeep on 35's can be and the offroad flex is too good! Limit straps are mandatory here (they would also be on the Clayton kit). I have experienced no bind and the driveline does not hit the arms like other people, this is because I followed TNT's instructions to the letter and set my Castor at 6.5 degrees. The only noise mine makes that isn't normal is when the arms contact the part of the old LCA mount that I still have to trim off (it got too late when I was installing to run the angle grinder). Now one thing to note is that as I previously said I am running it at their recommended 6.5 degrees castor, I set the wheelbase at spot on 101.5" (rear axle in stock location), and I'm running approximately 6" of lift.

Workability. Is it really harder to work on the transmission and transfer case with a TNT Y-Link? Hell yes it is, but it's not as bad as they all say. If you secure the front axle in place so it WILL NOT MOVE you can remove the belly pan, drop it down, and work on your junk. As long as the front axle does not move and you keep the vehicle at the same level it was at the belly pan will easily go back into position without ever removing the arms.

On reachability over at TNT... I've had good luck getting a hold of them but that was awhile ago. Their business is getting a LOT more popular right now so I would not be surprised to learn that they are having some growing pains. Once you do get a hold of them though Bob and Matt are both nice guys who will help you through the process.

So there you have it, again I'm not saying it's better than Clayton because I've had no experience with that kit, I'm just trying to give you more of a clear picture of the other system...

Sequoia

 

[SharkXJ]

Yes, yes I have on more than one occasion (It's an out west thing )

Now I know it's probably too late but what the hell, I just saw this and do have some experience on the TNT Kit.

To start with I do not have any experience with the Clayton kit, let's get that out of the way right now...

I have chose TNT for clearance, my Jeep has gobs of clearance down below and for my style wheeling that is one of the most crucial things, again I'm talking about West Coast rocks wheeling.

Now, let's clear up some possible SPOBI...

The TNT Belly pan / Y-Link arm mount is beefy. It's made out of 1/4" steel and has a LOT of internal bracing. The only explanation I can give for the bent one pictured above is either it was a very hard hit (were they winching you DOWN? As in the winch was adding extra force to the pan) or maybe he got it way in the beginning and there has been a revision change. I do not see me bending mine without serious work.

Now one thing that irritates me. People go out and buy armor, steering, whatever, they wheel it, bend it, then get on here talking about how crappy it is. That's bullshit. EVERYTHING will bend and I've seen just about all of it bend. Sorry for the diversion of the topic but the never satisfied customer crowd irritates me...

Let's talk build quality of the TNT Y-Link kit (Not of the U-Bolt eliminator or anything aside from the front suspension, I don't have those products as they didn't exist!). On my kit all welds looked fantastic. That is welds on the arms, belly pad, track bar, and track bar mount. The products fit perfect without modification. This includes the frame stiffiners, the 45 degree bends were placed perfectly and the notches to allow bending (to follow the frame rail) were perfectly placed.

Installation of the Y-Link isn't easy, I'll give you that. The two hardest parts of the job for me were the drilling the side of hte frame rails (for the extra bracing) and cutting off the old lower control arm mounts. The instructions Bob provides are perfect and even I had no trouble drilling the frame in the correct spots (I've always been bad at blind drilling). Take your time with the lower control arm mount removal as you don't want to cut into the frame.

The stiffiners are an easy install and go on very well. Just make sure you are good at welding dissimilar thickness metal together (3/16" to the unibody sheetmetal) so you don't blow too many holes in the faux-frame rails.

On performance. The Y-Link kit performs extremely well. The ride on the highway is about as smooth as a lifted Jeep on 35's can be and the offroad flex is too good! Limit straps are mandatory here (they would also be on the Clayton kit). I have experienced no bind and the driveline does not hit the arms like other people, this is because I followed TNT's instructions to the letter and set my Castor at 6.5 degrees. The only noise mine makes that isn't normal is when the arms contact the part of the old LCA mount that I still have to trim off (it got too late when I was installing to run the angle grinder). Now one thing to note is that as I previously said I am running it at their recommended 6.5 degrees castor, I set the wheelbase at spot on 101.5" (rear axle in stock location), and I'm running approximately 6" of lift.

Workability. Is it really harder to work on the transmission and transfer case with a TNT Y-Link? Hell yes it is, but it's not as bad as they all say. If you secure the front axle in place so it WILL NOT MOVE you can remove the belly pan, drop it down, and work on your junk. As long as the front axle does not move and you keep the vehicle at the same level it was at the belly pan will easily go back into position without ever removing the arms.

On reachability over at TNT... I've had good luck getting a hold of them but that was awhile ago. Their business is getting a LOT more popular right now so I would not be surprised to learn that they are having some growing pains. Once you do get a hold of them though Bob and Matt are both nice guys who will help you through the process.

So there you have it, again I'm not saying it's better than Clayton because I've had no experience with that kit, I'm just trying to give you more of a clear picture of the other system...

Sequoia

Well said G. I just got the TnT kit installed and LOVE the highway ride. I haven't had a chance to wheel it yet but everything I have read and heard is nothing but positive (until I read this thread). I also have no experience with Clayton but right off the bat the clearence you get with the TnT kit in UNBEATABLE. You look across the bottom of my rig and you see nothing.

Good luck on your build. You will be happy with what ever. Long arms are the way to go regardless of the brand you get.

 

[Vince]

I'm really happy with my Clayton kit with rear coils. I've not had any problems getting hung up on rocks with it, although my Ford 8.8 usually gets snagged before anything else does.

One thing I have noticed with long-arms in general is that they unload way more than you expect on gradients. I have been in situations where my '93 with a short-arm 5" lift on 33s could easily get over an obstacle unlocked and my 2001 with long-arms and 35s has to have the lockers on due to the weight transfer. I've been reading about suck down winches and this seems like a good remedy.

 

[IronSmiles]

Wow.. I really appreciate all the detailed responses you guys have given.. It really has helped. At this point I'm still leaning towards the Claytons, just for what I'll be using it for. I've got most of the money saved up and will be buying in about 2 weeks. =)

 

[FishPOET]

I tried for two weeks to get anyone at TNT to answer a few of my questions. 4 phone calls straight to voivemail and on the 4th the machine said voicemail was full and hung up on me. Not a single 1 of my three voicemail messages was ever answered. 2 emails never answered.

Horrible customer service.

1 phonecall and my Clayton's LA's shipped the next day. Another satisfied Clayton customer.

 

[fatwreck]

Here is a good picture of the TNT belly pan:

I didn't have any complaints with that kit and I ran it on a lot of different trails. I even high centered my rig on a rock to the point where you could rock the rig back and forth and left to right. I had to be pulled backwards off of it and my belly pan didn't bend. I'm not saying that you can't bend it.....I'm just saying that I put mine through the paces and didn't have any problems:

No problems with it unloading here:

No problems in the rocks here:

Or here:

Overall I was happy with it and would gladly buy another one. You can check out my full install writeup here:
http://www.projectxj.com/mods/long.arms.htm

 

[Cowmanche]

I would like to add another option. I am extremely satified with my 6" long arm Full Traction kit, with their skidplate. Here is a pic of the belly side. I would say that one of many advantages is the fact that the full traction kit is a 4 link system. I feel that the suspension cycles and the front axle is less likely to unload while articulating. Keeping it much more stable. Also the skid plate raises the entire transfer case higher. I have yet to really hit my skid on anything yet with it being tucked so high.

 

[GSequoia]

tucked so high.

But the attachement points for the arms are a full two or three inches below the frame!

 

[Cowmanche]

But the attachement points for the arms are a full two or three inches below the frame!

I have yet to run into any situation that they have caused me any problem getting hung up on something. If they did they are beefy enough and make a great slider

 

[RED BULL]

OK, I know that this thread is about TnT vs. Clayton's kits, but what about Rubicon's long arm kit for the XJ? Anybody have any comparisons there, good or bad? I would like to know because I'm in the market for a long arm kit for my cherokee as well.....

FWIW, This is the first negative information that I've seen about TnT. The only real drawbacks that I have about the kit is servicing the t-case and/or tranny....