titan 4.6L PINGING

[tl1r]

:confused1 OK, I'M NEW AND I DID A BUNCH OF SEARCHING B4 POSTING. WORSE YET I'M A YJ OWNER. (WHERE'D EVRYBODY GO :jester: ) HERE'S MY PROBLEM, TITAN SAYS WITH THERE 4.6L ALL I HAVE TO DO IS RETARD MY DISTRIBUTOR A FEW DEGREES, THROW IN FORD 24LBS. INJECTORS AND EVERYTHING WILL WORK JUST FINE. WRONG!! I'VE DONE THAT PLUS A 180 T-STAT, NITRO BOX ON MY IAT (WHICH HELPED) AND I'M RUNNING 89 OCTANE, ONE TANK I ALSO THREW IN OCTANE BOOST. (DID NOTHING) HAS ANYONE HAD SUCCESS IN RUNNING A 4.6 W 9:1 COMPRESSION WITHOUT ADDING ANYTHING ELSE??? MY SYMPTOMS ARE AS FOLLOWS: I CAN LET THE JEEP RUN FOR A HALF HOUR OR JUMP RIGHT IN AND GO (IDLES QUIET AND PERFECT) TAKE OFF NO PROBLEM BUT ONCE I BEGIN TO DRIVE IT STEADY ANY LOAD CHANGE AFTER THAT POINT SUCH AS AN UPHILL OR MORE THAN A 150 RPM CHANGE ON THE THROTTLE (EITHER DIRECTION) AND ITS LIKE I OWN A POORLY RUNNING DIESEL. I APPRECIATE ANY HELP I CAN GET THANKS IN ADVANCE

my rigs info: 88yj converted to a 93. 4.6L, AX15, 4:10's & 35's purchased new pcm from jeep as well as crank sensor, o2 sensor, champion plugs (stock gap), cap, rotor, wires, fuel pump & filter. aftermarket includes map sensor, distributor, cam sensor, coolant temp sensor, 180 t-stat, c-force2 clutch, hollowed out cat converter, cat back exhaust 1 size larger than stock, nitro box on my IAT, stock air box w filter taped in. (cold air intake is coming) 93 dash harness, 94 engine harness (back half only) and no idea what year front half is. everything seems to work properly and everything is seen properly through pcm when i hook scanner up to it.

 

[Blue XJ]

I'm running my stroker at 9.4:1 and its been fine so far. I usually run regular gas, but once in a while I put midgrade in it. I would try a higher octane at the pump next time, one of your sensors minght be bad as well, causing it to run poorly. Have you checked the TPS?

 

[JJacobs]

I hope Titan didn't tell you to adjust spark timing with the distributor! Timing is set by the CPS, rotating the distributor changes the fuel synch.

 

[tl1r]

well i set the cps in place with the old pc o paper trick (really thin cardboard) for proper spacing. I indexed the distributor correctly, twice actually cause i started to doubt myself. The distrib is probably an inch from original position on the retard side anything less and the t-light reads so advanced its not on the scale at idle. any further back it remains the same 12-14 degrees, go to far and all of a sudden it jumps to 0 degrees. nothing in between. As far as my tps,iac, iat and all my other sensors they read the values you would expect when the scanner is hooked up with the car running or off. The donor engine did some time under a tarp so i cleaned around the throttle blade b4 install and blew throught the intake. the only sensors that aren't new are all the ones in the intake which i've thought to change out of frustration but like i said they read correctly. But both of you guys don't have any performance extras that you had to install for correct operation on 87 octane? Do either of you have a titan?

 

[tl1r]

AS WELL ON THE SYPTOM SIDE THE PINGING IS WORSE IN 4TH AND 5TH GEAR. I TRIED DISCONNECTING THE VACCUM AND PLUGGING IT TO THE FUEL REGULATOR FOR A TEST RUN BUT NO DIFFERENCE. SHOULD I HAD A DIFFERENCE? CANT RUN MY PSI GAUGE WHILE DRIVING ITS NOT LONG ENOUGH

 

[JJacobs]

But both of you guys don't have any performance extras that you had to install for correct operation on 87 octane?

You mean like the proper, premium high octane fuel?

 

[tl1r]

WELL TITAN SAYS ITS MADE TO RUN ON 87 W/O PINGING SO MY WALLET REALLY HOPES PREMIUM WOULD BE THE INPROPER FUEL. BUT FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE I'M CLOSE ENOUGH TO EMPTY I'LL DO A FILL UP ON 92-93 WHEN THE WEATHER CLEARS AND I'LL LET U KNOW HOW IT GOES. REGARDLESS I'M LOOKING FOR SOMETHING I MAY HAVE MISSED TO GET IT TO THE POINT WHERE I CAN FILL UP ON 87.

 

[MrShoeBoy]

If titan told you that it would run on 87 you where had. Just about every stroker out there has to run premium or at the very least 89. Start searching and you will see that bumping up the compression with a stroker means running higher grade fuel. You installed a high preformance motor, so now you have to run the high preformance gas. Deal with it

AARON

 

[MudDawg]

Yup...too much CR for regular...either that or the quench is way outta whack. or both most likely. Assuming all the engine controls are working properly. No easy way out of this problem...except maybe high quality fuel...or some illegal and difficult to obtain additives..:skull1:

 

[ladrew]

you might need to run higher octane fuel, replace the injectors, and turbo city makes a good map sensor to fine tune the engine also.

 

[rmm727]

I was always told that octane was a remedy to poor tuning. I don't see how 9.4:1 compression is high. SBC's will run that carburated on 87 w/o problems. The computer should take care of the pinging.

 

[GSequoia]

First off please lose the caps...

Now a little lesson... When you switch over to high compression you also need to run higher octane fuel; it's just how it goes.

Now these people you've read about running 87 octane with high compression strokers are problem running the Renix Fuel Injection system (1987 - 1990 XJ); these systems include a knock sensor which adjusts the timeing to keep the pings away (and I'd bet Titan has a * with a small note at hte bottom saying this).

If I were you I would return the distributor and crank sensors to stock and put in some quality high octane fuel to see if that fixes your issue.

You gotta pay to play buddy - if you want performance you gotta make some changes.

 

[tl1r]

Well first off sorry for the CAPS offense. Like i said i'm going to give the 92-93 a try, weathers kind of sucked lately and the tops off. Although titan hasn't been the fastest to get back to me they hav'nt let me out to dry yet. they still claim there engine is built to perform on 87 and i'm going to let them send me anything they want to pay for to try to achieve it. As far as the crank and distrib I can't put the distrib at stock it runs horrible and misses anything above idle not to mention the timing is way to advanced. The crank is a stock sensor in the stock location as far as I know. But willing to listen to anything at this point. Thanks for all the info keep it coming.

 

[GSequoia]

can't put the distrib at stock it runs horrible and misses anything above idle not to mention the timing is way to advanced.

I'd start right here, something is way not right.

It may be advantagious of you not only to recheck the index of the distributor (they can be a pain in the ass at times - also check out the strokers group; there is a good file with distributor indexing there) and check the cam timing - perhaps it's off.

 

[Blue XJ]

I'd start right here, something is way not right.

It may be advantagious of you not only to recheck the index of the distributor (they can be a pain in the ass at times - also check out the strokers group; there is a good file with distributor indexing there) and check the cam timing - perhaps it's off.

I believe that file is for indexing a HO distributor and not a nonHO one. I'm not sure if his stroker is a Renix or not, but if its a Renix that file may not work for him. Or are they set the same?

 

[corbinafly]

I believe that file is for indexing a HO distributor and not a nonHO one. I'm not sure if his stroker is a Renix or not, but if its a Renix that file may not work for him. Or are they set the same?

I'm pretty sure they're set the same.

Kyung

 

[GSequoia]

It's the same. It's only about indexing the distributor (syncing it to TDC) - that rule will apply to just about any distrubotor out there (barring different gear sizes so slight differences, although HO and non-HO use the same size gear).

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I believe that file is for indexing a HO distributor and not a nonHO one. I'm not sure if his stroker is a Renix or not, but if its a Renix that file may not work for him. Or are they set the same?

http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/dist_index.html

My stroker also has a 9.4:1 CR, quench of 0.090", doesn't ping on 91 octane even in 155*F weather, and I'm using the hottest plugs (Champion RC12LYC). In cooler weather, I'm sure it wouldn't ping on 89 either if it was available to me.
As far as running a stroker on 87 goes, it'll have to be either a low compression engine (say 9.0:1 or less) or a Renix stroker with a knock sensor to retard timing when it senses detonation. The retarded timing results in a loss of performance and worse gas mileage so it would be a self defeating exercise to build a high compression Renix stroker and then run it on 87 octane.

 

[CRASH]

The retarded timing results in a loss of performance and worse gas mileage so it would be a self defeating exercise to build a high compression Renix stroker and then run it on 87 octane.

Not quite true, I live at 3,000 ft, and travel often to higher elevations. I run my 9.4 to 1 stroker on 87 octane and it runs like a champ. If I'm headed lower, I can run mid-grade or premium.

Also, don't forget cam selection can have a rather large effect on dynamic compression......

 

[tl1r]

very appreciated but i've been there 3 times now. Believe it or not i am a mechanic (obviously not the best one:shhh: ) I have the alldata system at my shop that gives the percise directions on how to it. Which i've done 3 times at this point (is the same info in your search file though) its definitley lined up right. I was starting to come to the conclusion that the better cam causes it to run advanced in the stock position. Titan asked me to run a compression check on my engine to see if they sent me the right one. Couldn't do it last night lost power at the shop so that'll be tonight. I'll keep you posted