This drinking and driving BS has to stop

[ChiXJeff]

That's some good news, Tom.

 

[kastein]

Hope he does well and recovers. Let me know if there is anything I can do, though I'm kinda far away

Drunk driving disgusts me. I'm way too much of a control freak to ever consider doing it, my personal rule is no more than two beers (and wait an hour for each beer) and if any hard alcohol is involved, a full night's sleep is required.

Sadly I don't think anything will really stop people from doing it, too much delay between crime and punishment.

 

[Brad M.]

I'm not a part of your chapter, but noticed the thread title... my thoughts/prayers are with you and your family. Hope everything turns out OK...

X2, hoping and praying for the best.

 

[JJacobs]

Sorry to hear that, Tom. Hope the situation's improving.

 

[eflores]

Whats this Grandpa crap???? I got enough grandkids to baby sit and hitting me up for cash already and another due in June.

not to discount or go off topic but youre 900 years old tom...helluva nice guy...but grandpa material none the less...and i need new tires....puleeze grandpa...

at any rate good to hear things are looking better. i drank a couple bears tonight and thought about you and the current situation the whole time. it gives me ( a young pup) a whole different outlook on drinking. makes one think about the right to and the responsibility of.

i hope we all learn some thing from this even if we already know it. its a reminder that life is precious and is not to be taken granted.

i pray every thing turns out well Tom.
you all are in my prayers

 

[5-90]

Latest update:
He is back in surgery now. They are going back in to remove the packing and sponges they used to slow the brain bleeds. They are also going to put a rod in his femur to try and stabilize his leg. Just before surgery they lightened his sedation and he was able to respond and move all his limbs so that is a good sign but he is a long way from being out of the woods.

They didn't need to do a burr hole to let off the intracranial pressure? He's doing better than I first thought!

Subdural haematomae are a cast-iron bitch - and the odds usually aren't good. Sounds like he may have had internal cranial bleeding, but if they didn't need to relieve, he's probably halfway home.

 

[old_man]

Because of all the skull fractures, they actually didn't bore a hole, they removed a big chunk of skull to get to the bleeds. His whole head is like an egg shell that has been thrown up against a wall. He was fighting brain swelling as well. Things are looking a bit better, but things are still touch and go.

 

[5-90]

Oh. Ow. Sorry - I didn't know that.

Sounds like how my face looked after I landed on it - I saw the CT later. Looked like someone had smacked a crystal ball with a mallet.

I'm glad to hear he's still on the uptick tho - hopefully, he'll stay that way!

 

[Jawa]

Keep us updated Tom, I hope everything turns out alright. I read some news articles that I think are about this accident that described the vehicle as a Jeep Wrangler instead of a Cherokee. Do you know if it turned out to be a Wrangler? If so, at least we can be fairly sure one of our guys wasn't the douchebag.

 

[Jawa]

Wow... today I received this email from my father-in-law (names have been abbreviated):

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14861775

​

​

When we were wheeling Bunce Saturday, April 10th, we met a blue Jeep (with 3 guys in it) as we were headed south on Bunce School Road, they told KB or AN that they had just spent 2.5 hours digging out of a big snow drift. As I passed them they told me "good luck". Well, we saw where they had been stuck, we got past that point and made it all the way to the locked gate. We turned around at that point and came back out.

​

When we got to where the trail up to the Iron Clads turns off they were sitting there alongside the road with another guy on a 4WD quad, sharing a 12 pack of Coors. We talked to them for a while, one feller stood out because he was constantly repeating "XXXX yeah man!" more than anything else he was saying. We decided to head up and do the Iron Clads again. The guy that was riding the quad said he was going to go get his "Jeep and show those Samis how it is done".

​

We got up there, I tried (unsuccessfully again) to get up a snowy hill, while I was screwing around I heard on the CB that AN found one of his hubs had sheared its bolts. I went back down to where KB and AN were. That was pretty much the end of the day for him and us. We were sitting there talking and looking at his hub when the blue jeep and the quad fellow in his green jeep came up the trail to tackle the loop. "XXXX Yeah Man" was driving the blue jeep. They had a hard time with the slight hill right there and the green jeep slid off the trail at the same spot where I had to winch KB out earlier that day. They struggled for a while and finally I offered to pull him out with my winch. As we were working on getting that Jeep out one of the fellers from the blue jeep said he remembered meeting me a couple years earlier up at the pond on Coney Flats. As I recall he was drinking a Coors Extra Gold at that time and driving a quad.

​

We headed down the mountain, it was 5:09 and I saw I had cell service so I called LS to report what we were up to. (Cell service is very spotty up there, I stopped long enough to make the call then moved on.) We stopped at the parking area to air up and while airing up they came pulling up again. They pulled out their 12 pack (or another one?) and shot the shit with us till we were ready to head out. They told us they were going to Estes to eat. As I drove away the one fellow that was obviously drunk was sitting in the driver's seat. Based on the others saying "he doesn't think he is going to drive dose he?" I assumed he was just sitting there. We drove on down to Lyons, ate at Oscar Blues, and went home.

​

That night I was watching the news and they reported that there had been an accident on Hwy 7 near Allenspark involving a car and a Jeep. I just knew it was them and it made me feel quite bad. We had chatted a bit on the CB about being glad we were ahead of them and about anybody else on the road being in danger. I searched for quite a while on the net to find an article and when I did it reported that it was a Jeep Cherokee. ( http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?ID=27660 ) I felt a bit relieved. Then today I found another article (the one I linked up top) that reported it as a Wrangler. Shit, seems like way too many coincidences to not be them. 3 guys in a jeep heading to Estes Park on Hwy 7 at 6:12 pm, suspected drunk driving? I'm not positive it was them, but it sure seems probable.

​

Holy crap, makes my heart sick, especially for the family of 4 they hit head on.​

I don't believe there was a dang thing I could have done about this, I don't know why it makes me feel so bad though.

​

I was looking at a picture I took when we first pulled up on the group, it shows an open 12 pack sitting on the trail beside their jeep, the "XXXX yeah man!" dude holding a beer talking to AN, and MTLCOFN is their license plate number (metal coffin?). The second pic is of "XXXX Yeah Man!" leaning in my window while I was operating the winch.​

JRF​

Small world eh? My father-in-law has since spoken with the officer that responded to the scene and confirmed that it was indeed the very same Jeep full of Coors-swilling guys. It was a Wrangler, not a Cherokee. He's giving all the info he's got to the officer.

Crazy...

 

[Frank Z]

He should have called 911 as soon as he saw those guys drinking beer and driving. A forrest service road is no different than any other road as far as dirnking and driving are concerned.

Had he made the call this tragic incident could have been avoided.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

That's awesome. I'm glad to hear there actually WAS a connection and that a few more items of evidence and a statement will be given to go with the incident/case.

 

[Jawa]

He should have called 911 as soon as he saw those guys drinking beer and driving. A forrest service road is no different than any other road as far as dirnking and driving are concerned.

Had he made the call this tragic incident could have been avoided.

WTF Frank?? Here he takes the time to follow up with the police and give them all the information and assistance he can and you have the gall to blame him for the incident. Easy for you to say Mr. Monday Morning Quarterback.

My understanding is that by the point it was obvious these guys might be a problem there was no cell service, so making a call was impossible.

 

[Swath-]

We had no cell service aside from earlier in the day from up hi on the trail.

If I called every time I saw a fellow having a beer on the trail I would be one busy guy. I certainly did not perform a BAC on the fellers, they were not all wasted, one in particular seemed to be but he was not driving. "XXXX Yeah Man!" dude wasn't staggering nor slurring. Yes, we did suspect they were drunk, high, or both. (Drunk vs drinking)

They obviously were on their way out.

But thanks for making me feel more guilty about not doing something....

Armchair quarterbacking is a wonderful thing.

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=166015

 

[XJNOOB93]

This is nobody's fault on here but that douche bag behind the wheel. Lets not get into a fight over something WE CANT CONTROL! Lets keep this thread positive and try to help Tom through this.

 

[Swath-]

Some drunk bastard in a Cherokee "lost control" and did a head on crash into a vehicle out side of Allenspark yesterday. My Ex-son in law and my grand daughter were in the vehicle he hit and sent over a 50 foot cliff. My grand daughter was lucky and only had a gash across her face and had 7 stitches but here dad, the sober driver is in very touchy condition. He has all kinds of broken bones, his whole face is shattered and has been in surgery multiple times to relieve pressure from multiple brain bleeds. We still don't know if he is going to make it or if he does, if he will be brain damaged. Things don't look good.

Boy I hope it wasn't one of our guys, cause right now I don't know what I would do if I knew who it was.

I am heart sick about this. I am glad your granddaughter is ok, I hope her Dad makes a great recovery. Me and a couple other guys saw them up there, you can read some of it in the links and from JAWA's post. Aside from taking the guys keys away by force what really could we have done to stop these stupid fawkers?

I am providing pictures and some exact times to the responding officer, he said he would like to have whatever I have to help with his time line and I will do anything I can to assist in the prosecution of these dick heads. Sorry I didn't do more at the time....

 

[Frank Z]

Was honest and to the point. I've been on the trail and seen people get totally shitfaced and continue to drive. I did everything I could to make sure that Law Enforcement was notified. If that means that you stop what you're doing and head back down the trail till you find a spot that has cell service, flag down a cop, or find a land line.

I have zero tolerance for anyone that gets behind the wheel or hops on a quad and endangers the lives of others....NONE.

Monday Morning Quarter Back? Fine, call me what you will, but don't ever accuse me of being a "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda."

No I don't go out of my way to rat out some guy having a beer with his lunch, but when you see the idiots enjoying 12 pack after 12 pack then YOU NEED TO ACT IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER SINCE THEY OBVIOUSLY REFUSE TO!

If the quoted article is accurate, then someone should have grown a pair and done the right thing.

Wanna be pissed at me for pointing out the obvious...go right ahead.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Guys, let's not have this get out of hand here. No one is pointing fingers, placing blame or whatever. Let's not lose the intent of this thread and keep our focus on support for Tom and his family.

Let's drop all the armchair quarterbacking and coulda/woulda/shoulda stuff.

I think Swath is to be highly commended for immediately taking the initiative to deal with apathetic dispatchers and insist on providing CSP with some very valuable information (read the CO4x4 thread - Swath really had to be insistant to give the info..... rediculous that it went down like that). Far too many people would do absolutely nothing given the same situation because they don't want to end up in court as a witness.

Keep this thread positive boys, or it'll get locked.

If anything, let's all remember our responsibilities when drinking and driving and how we represent our hobby/interest. Save the brewskis for later, after the trail run/driving is done. :thumbup:

 

[5-90]

I am heart sick about this. I am glad your granddaughter is ok, I hope her Dad makes a great recovery. Me and a couple other guys saw them up there, you can read some of it in the links and from JAWA's post. Aside from taking the guys keys away by force what really could we have done to stop these stupid fawkers?

I am providing pictures and some exact times to the responding officer, he said he would like to have whatever I have to help with his time line and I will do anything I can to assist in the prosecution of these dick heads. Sorry I didn't do more at the time....

Take heart. You may not have done more "at the time," but you're doing more now than most people would do to begin with!

Driving while intox is one of a very few things I take no pity on whatever. As mentioned, it's so easy to avoid. Perhaps we should change the punishment brackets...

Simple DUI = Reckless Endangerment.
DUI resulting in personal injury = Malicious Wounding with Depraved Indifference, perhaps?
DUI resulting in death = vehicular homicide, second degree (the only thing missing in premeditation. Although that might be provable anyhow...)

 

[kronc42]

Tom,
I'm so sorry to hear that and my thoughts and payers are with you and your family. It makes me so mad that this has to happen. If you look at the numbers of DUI arrests in the last few years it has been down because when someone gets a DUI a part of that money they pay to the courts goes to fund DUI programs like heat is on. It makes such a difference to get the extra cops on the road. You have a 1 to in a 192 chance of getting caught driving drunk with the program in place. Our wonderful governor Bill F***ing Ritter has taken all the money that goes to fund programs heat is on! I'm not saying that another cop on the road could have stopped this tragedy it may have stopped it somewhere else. Please don't let your friends drive if they have been drinking.