The Switch From Analog To Digital

Jester99

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Chattanooga, Tn
Would someone please tell me why this is so important and a "necessity?" What exactly is the point of the whole thing besides better picture? I would like to hear other opinions and views. Personally, I believe it to be a bad thing. It can and probably will be used for downright manipulation of the viewer. Not much of a change now that I think about it, but LCD imagery creates an almost hypnotic, trance-like state do to its life-likeness. It is so much more real it draws you in. Imagine what this could do in the hands of the wrong people? Hell, with digital editing and computer programs, we can be led to believe anything...It saddens me to think how much we have all become dependent on technology. I don't think some people could survive without it. It has dumbed us down, over-simplified everything. Makes me wonder if anyone in the future will remember what it is like to be human.
 
Capitalism. Change = purchase new tv, new cable or satellite service, etc.

If I remember correctly it is about the broadcast bandwidth coupled with keeping providers on a level field.

The one thing I am hearing that may cause real problems: Digital doesn't seem to broadcast as far over the air (????). So people who are going with the subsidized converter boxes may not be receiveing anything anyways if they aren't close in.
 
Oh, it's you again.
I was half way into a decent tech discussion til I got to the "manipulation" part. Stopped me in my tracks and made me look at who the OP is.
Dude, you're like an Offspring song, mildly entertaining but mostly empty and annoying.
 
Oh, it's you again.
I was half way into a decent tech discussion til I got to the "manipulation" part. Stopped me in my tracks and made me look at who the OP is.
Dude, you're like an Offspring song, mildly entertaining but mostly empty and annoying.

Thanks!!! I find your analogy to be quite amusing! However, if thinking outside the box and contemplating alternative ideas makes me empty and annoying, I am certainly proud to be it. Next time I will ask directly for your opinion. Watch for the tag line, "Hhhheeeeeeyyy, Come Out And Play!"
 
...,It can and probably will be used for downright manipulation of the viewer. Not much of a change now that I think about it, but LCD imagery creates an almost hypnotic, trance-like state do to its life-likeness. It is so much more real it draws you in. Imagine what this could do in the hands of the wrong people? Hell, with digital editing and computer programs, we can be led to believe anything...It saddens me to think how much we have all become dependent on technology. I don't think some people could survive without it. It has dumbed us down, over-simplified everything,...
Due to the incredible amount of annoying advertising, most of the "television" I watch, I watch on my computer. Due to bandwidth/speed issues, I get a low quality signal(looks like about 640x480 resolution) I guess that explains the lack of a hypnotic quality. Maybe that's why I don't enjoy the programming so much. It may also explain why I don't believe most of the crap "they" try to feed me. And here I thought I was a clear-headed, free thinking, intelligent person.

'Turns out it's just a lack of resolution from the TV I watch. Who woulda' thunk it!
 
Originally DTV was supposed to be broadcast from sats in orbit, the signal could be controlled as to where it 'hit' within a few yards which made custom programming for advertising and commercials a real eye catcher.
It is true that if you live in a fringe area and get snowy or fuzzy TV off of an antenna you are more than likely not going to get DTV even if you have the converter box, the digital signal does now follow the contour of the earth as well as the analog TV signals do, similar to FM, FM is short range compared to AM, AM follows the contours well. Below a certain threshold the DTV receiver just ignores the signal and you see nothing, no fuzzy pic or snowy screen, just black the same way as if you covered your sat dish with a foot of snow.
 
untitled-1.jpg
 
Hell, we've already passed the point where, for most people, what was on TV last night is more important than what's happening to-day (I'm sure.) Just tune in around the watercooler...

Seinfeld? Never really got the jokes. Friends? If it weren't for Aniston, I flat wouldn't care (show sounds better muted anyhow.) Will & Grace? I tried watching that one time - spend a half-hour waiting for the punchline.

From what I've seen of most TV; the programming sucks, the commercials border on being worse (I honestly don't know which I find more intellectually insulting, to be honest,) and it's just a pity that cable companies can't do a strictly a la carte approach to the channels you get. Sci-Fi, Discovery, and Cartoon Network would be about it for me.

Gimme a Nielsen box, and I'll hook it up to a TV that never gets turned on. Perhaps that would send a message to varous programming execs - "Try something new. I'm not going to watch anything that sucks anymore, nor anything that was done thirty years ago. Figure it out..."

I sometimes think that a wall-to-wall counselling session with programming execs would bear fruit, but some damned fool decided that assault should be outlawed as a blanket policy. Pity - there are a good many people who just need to be whacked in the head on a regular basis - kinda like Second Lieutenants (Ensigns, to you Navy folks...)
 
So do you actually use bunny ears for your tv or do you have cable?
 
So do you actually use bunny ears for your tv or do you have cable?

Sadly, Sci-Fi doesn't come over bunny-ears - and I get the VVD setup anyhow, so it's all consolidated on one bill.

As it stands, I watch about two hours of broadcast every week - Stargate Atlantis and Sanctuary. That's pretty much it - most programming I find insulting (I mean, how stupid do these people actually think I am?!?) and the commercials are usually worse (but not always. That's the scary part - that programming could be worse than the commercials.)

When my wife is out of town, I don't even turn the idiot box on, unless I've already switched the DVD player on so I can watch Sam & Max or something like that (it's still mindless, but it's not insulting. At least I know what to expect there!)

And no, I don't like sports either. I find them generally boring and pointless. Besides, if we can lionise overpaid mastodons trying to grind each other into the turf, why can't they cover three-gun matches, precision long-range marksmanship, or full-contact martial arts with any regularity? How about the Ranger Challenge? That was probably the last good thing I caught on ESPN - and that was a few years ago (can you tell I don't crack open a TV Guide, either?) I'll watch a game if I have a personal interest (a family member is playing,) and that I'll usually do in person. Apart from that, I just don't care. You want to make football interesting? Play it in a minefield. You want to make basketball interesting? Post a sniper. Baseball or golf? Have a ball loaded with nitroglycerine introduced into the game at random. I figure of these yoyos are going to get paid more in one year than I'll see in the rest of my life, let's make them earn that money! There's not enough risk of death & dismemberment there... Not for the money involved.
 
Besides, if we can lionise overpaid mastodons trying to grind each other into the turf, why can't they cover three-gun matches, precision long-range marksmanship, or full-contact martial arts with any regularity?

Simple - because the liberals don't want anything on the air that might put a chink in their "guns are bad" diabtribes.

The martial arts, I don't know - seems like it'd attract the same audience as the UFC (which I can't understand the appeal for anyway).

Rob
 
SciFi went downhill fast, ghost hunters and all that crap pretty much killed any interest I had, the only thing left is stargates and sanctuary. I liked DrWho, Battlestar, now they run these lame shows that must be cheap to get.
Personally I think what they did was move them. Here we have basic service that goes up to channel 25, 26 is CNN, thats pretty much what you can get over the air and a bit more BUT they do stuff two home shopping channels in there, then the next up gives you up to channel 100 which gives you basic and the other channels, discovery, history. That with cable modem service is $100 a month. To get the better channels, the other discovery, history, DIY, etc you have to cough up another $50 and no movie channels yet either, thats even more $$
I've gotten to a point where I have a friend over in england that records the current Dr who and others to his replay5000 PVR and pushes them down to my replay in mpg format. When I turn that on I get surprised to find 5 or 6 new episodes that he shoved down overnite, I do the same with football games, NCIS, 2 1/2 men and push them up to him. The replays are pretty cool boxes. Then I connect with a java applet to the replay from my burner PC and transfer the programs to dvd's.
Luckily the digital change has no effect on cable, they are still going to broadcast the channels in analog till you get up over channel 100, at that point you need a digital receiver for the conversion.
 
Jester,
Check out this book: Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television by Jerry Mander.

Here's the Wikipedia brief on it but really get the book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Arguments_for_the_Elimination_of_Television

Television watching is not active, it is passive. Both the viewer's mind and body do not react, and cannot react. Mander calls television imagery a form of sleep teaching.

One researcher interviewed by Mander explains: "The horror of television, is that the information goes in, but we don't react to it. It goes right into our memory pool and perhaps we react to it later but we don't know what we're reacting to. When you watch television you are training yourself not to react and so later on, you're doing things without knowing why you're doing them or where they came from."

Mander published Four Arguments almost twenty years ago. I believe his main theme then (and the one I hope you are getting from this essay), is that advertisers and networks don't want the viewers to think. They want them to just be good consumers and spend money on their products.
http://www.netreach.net/~kaufman/Jerry.Mander.html

A key part of his argument was based on how TV display tube technology works. The picture is painted by an electron gun scanning the front of the tube is, at any instant, not complete. Ever take a picture of a TV at, say, 1/500th of a sec? But because the scan occurs faster than we can perceive our brains assemble the flickering images into a coherent image. Unlike printed material or even external reality where the object is external to us and our brain can apply some level of evaluation to it before reacting, with the original TV technology the image is already in part of our head, having slipped past that layer of mental filtering. This is why it becomes very hypnotic and trance inducing and perfect for the dissemination of any message the broadcaster and their partners desire.

A question to ask in the digital age (really the post cathode ray tube age) is whether this still holds true. Does non-CRT LCD/digital TV operate in the same manner, flickering images, that your brain assembles internally into a coherent whole and is thus as good as or better for the purposes of injecting propaganda?


Here's another good one:
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/elimtv.html
 
Last edited:
Would someone please tell me why this is so important and a "necessity?" What exactly is the point of the whole thing besides better picture? I would like to hear other opinions and views. Personally, I believe it to be a bad thing. It can and probably will be used for downright manipulation of the viewer. Not much of a change now that I think about it, but LCD imagery creates an almost hypnotic, trance-like state do to its life-likeness. It is so much more real it draws you in. Imagine what this could do in the hands of the wrong people? Hell, with digital editing and computer programs, we can be led to believe anything...It saddens me to think how much we have all become dependent on technology. I don't think some people could survive without it. It has dumbed us down, over-simplified everything. Makes me wonder if anyone in the future will remember what it is like to be human.

If you are so afraid of it then don't watch TV.

You'd beleive THIS too
 
People over-analyze this crap all the time.

After going to class/engineering co-op all day, I LOVE mind-numbing family guy and south park. Lets my brain relax and recouperate.

If you can get manipulated by TV, then you are weak-minded.
 
Would someone please tell me why this is so important and a "necessity?" What exactly is the point of the whole thing besides better picture? I would like to hear other opinions and views. Personally, I believe it to be a bad thing. It can and probably will be used for downright manipulation of the viewer. Not much of a change now that I think about it, but LCD imagery creates an almost hypnotic, trance-like state do to its life-likeness. It is so much more real it draws you in. Imagine what this could do in the hands of the wrong people? Hell, with digital editing and computer programs, we can be led to believe anything...It saddens me to think how much we have all become dependent on technology. I don't think some people could survive without it. It has dumbed us down, over-simplified everything. Makes me wonder if anyone in the future will remember what it is like to be human.
You can solve a part of the problem simply by using your digital converter to feed RF to a crappy old TV set. Solve the problem completely by turning the stupid thing off. Get your shortwave out of the bunker and listen to pure analog noise, or the ur-pure digital dit-dah-dits.

I fail to see why the digital signal I now get over the air is any different from what I see when I watch a DVD. It's a decent picture. No HD and blu-ray and all that stuff here, but I don't see why I should object to a decent picture!

Seriously, you say "what is the point other than a better picture," as if that were no point at all. A better picture would probably be a point by itself, considering how crappy the quality of American VHF has always been.

As it happens, though, I believe the main reason for the change is to free up the VHF bandwidth for other uses. VHF television has always occupied a very large part of the useable radio spectrum, and as technology improves, there's a need to find better uses for it. One of those uses, I have recently heard, might be public or municipal wireless internet access.

I think that as cable and satellite reception has so overtaken over-the-air in much of the country, and TV's themselves have evolved to take advantage of that, it was about time for the FCC to kill the old system. I think the transition itself has been poorly handled, but the idea is not so bad.

Just as a final note, you mention what could happen if the new technolgy were put into the hands of the "wrong people." What's new there? Technology has always been accessible to the wrong people, and used to its fullest. There's nothing special about digital TV, and nothing about over the air digital TV that has not already been available to cable and satellite providers, DVD makers, and internet providers. If you're that scared, you'd better not turn anything on at all.

One definite minus is, as Metal Thrasher points out, the loss of fringe reception with digital. Within a certain range, it's better, but beyond that, you can no longer pull in those snowy, jittery deep fringe signals. All the digital signals come by UHF, which has a shorter range than VHF to begin with, and digital signals simply cut off below a certain threshold. I suppose we must acknowledge that for the great majority of TV viewers, this is not the problem it once was, because so many people in fringe areas have simply switched to satellite, but it's kind of too bad anyway that some of that free access will be lost.
 
Well, as far as it being a "necessity", it is my understanding that analog channels take up a lot of bandwith per channel...remove an analog channel and you just made room for approx 8 standard definition channels, or 4 high definition digital channels.
 
People over-analyze this crap all the time.

After going to class/engineering co-op all day, I LOVE mind-numbing family guy and south park. Lets my brain relax and recouperate.

If you can get manipulated by TV, then you are weak-minded.

Again - at least you know what you're buying there (we've got FG on DVD. Haven't gotten around to South Park yet.)

I can go with "mindless" (but the right sort!) or "thought-provoking", but the programming typically on the table is neither.

As far as HD, what's really the point? The pictures are already "better than I can see" - kinda like how a couple of my target rifles "shoot better than I can." What's the point in having an improvement on the picture, if the picture I have now is already of a higher quality than I can enjoy, so why go with higher quality yet? Rather like when CDs first hit the market - a quality LP already makes about as high-quality a sound as I care to listen to - the principal advantage to a CD, for me, was convenience. Score yet another point for convenience with mp3 players - I don't usually push them past CD-quality sampling anyhow, regardless of the source.

Most of these "improvements" are what has been called PII - "Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increments." Essentially, it's improvement either of a finer resolution than we are able to interpret with our senses, or an improvement that is simply beyond our ability to sense in the first place.

If the DTV conversion is to free up airwaves for muni Wi-Fi, then I have two issues...

1) I'd like to see it happen, but I'd also like to see some serious privacy measures put into place. I research a great many odd things, and I don't want the Men in Black to come a-knocking just because I happened to look up something on a watch list somewhere.

2) Wi-Fi is up in the gigahertz bands, while VHF-TV is somewhere well under 1GHz. CMT (Cellular Mobile Telephony) is up around 1.4GHz these days (getting it out of the 800MHz band, or VHF-TV 62-73,) and cordless telephone handsets are up around 2.4GHz as well. Public safety radio services, down around 430-440MHz for the longest, went into trunked 800MHz and are being pushed upwards again, I think, into trunked 1.5GHz or so - outside of VHF-TV again. So, just about any "vital service" that is going to be positively affected by freeing up bandwidth in high VHF-TV is likely to be unaffected from the off.

Perhaps I'm just sounding paranoid here, but what's the real reason for the DTV conversion?:wierd:
 
Perhaps I'm just sounding paranoid here, but what's the real reason for the DTV conversion?:wierd:

Control, much more granular control that cable has enjoyed for several years. It allows the advertisers to put much more local content vs several hundred square miles. Ever notice that when a commercial comes on and a quarter second later it turns into another commercial, thats local market advertising kicking in when the key sequence is either missed or poorly timed. The local hardware store and reach the market thats local instead of a radius area which also brings down the advertising prices quite a bit.
That key sequence is what allows my replay and mythtv boxes to edit out the commercials on the fly when I record a program, it tells the system when a broadcast program is breaking for X amount of seconds for the local stations to put in their advertising.
 
Back
Top