THe NAC Lots-O-BFG KO2 Thread

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Oh boy...

The pump is the PSC hi-performance TC pump; and yeah I drilled the stock fitting out to 3/16. They give you a AN-fitting to use instead and I'll probably be changing this soon and making a new hose, as even drilled out the stock fitting is one of the last remaining bottlenecks in my system.

Box is completely reworked by PSC. Besides just being fully rebuilt, they install a dual-path spool valve in place of the stock one, and instead of the drilled/tapped 'lower' fitting (the bottom one, if you're looking at the box installed), they drill a new hole up by the valve and braze a hi-flow AN-fitting onto the housing. The dual-path valve then allows two outlets for the fluid, one to the ram and one to the piston in the steering box, so they operate in parallel. The homebrew drill/tap method puts all of the flow through the box first, which is fine for a stock-ish application, but builds up a lot of restriction once you try and flow through it much faster.

Hoses are all 3/8". All -6 AN fittings; no block/brass 90's anywhere. Mandrel-bent 45's off the steering box. I cut and re-welded the ram so the fittings point straight up, and the 3/8" hydraulic hoses run straight into it with no adapters. To improve the bend radius on the hoses I'm gonna swap these for another set of mandrel 45's and adapt the O-ring SAE fittings to AN as well.

Ram is 1.5" bore, 1" shaft, 8" travel. If I had to do it again I might go with a 0.75" shaft instead, just to balance it out a little better, but I don't really notice much of a loss in the retracting force vs. the extending force.

Basically, nearly the best hydro-assist setup you can put together. :D But the cool thing is, you can build it incrementally. The homebrew drill & tap with cheesy 1/4" NPT hoses and brass 90's worked fine for a few years. As I started the go-fast stuff, I upgraded the pump. Then drilled the fitting. Then had the box re-done. Then went to the larger hose size & rotated the ram fittings.

Net result is the steering is XXXXing amazing. Even for the tight woods racing and high-speed stuff, it's responsive as hell and I can almost never over-drive it. I like it a ton better than even some of the 'better' full hydro setups I've tried. It might not be the most 'powerful'...but it's good enough IMO; if I can't steer because it's bound up, I probably need to reconsider where I'm at anyway.

Next time I see any of you guys, you're more than welcome to drive it around for a while.

whoa, thanks for writing a book! :D very informative and good to know stuff. basically what I was thinking is to use a stock box/pump, with the fitting drilled and the 4.5" pulley, a cooler and resi, with either 1/4" or 3/8" lines and a 1.5x8x0.75 ram. from what I've read I think something along those lines will work well for me, I'm just paranoid and don't want to be redoing it over 3x before I have V1 working. at that point I might as well have bought pscs kit, which is exactly what im trying to avoid for $$$ reasons
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

don't forget about compound. TSL's have a good tread pattern but they're too hard... I'm sure if you're patient enough a set of creepies will pop up.

eh I dunno... this summer was unusually dry, but last year in the
wet stuff my SXs did everything I asked them to...
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

ALMOST everything, I should say :laugh:
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

What do you like better about it over the full hydro setups you've driven?

Just curious as I haven't done any of my steering yet...

Full hydro, by nature, will cause the steering wheel position to 'drift'. With proper caster angle and the right orbital you can still have it return-to-center like a normal car, but there's not gonna be a positive 'center' to the steering wheel. With the hydro assist, I never have to wonder where the wheels are pointing. Wheel straight ahead = tires straight ahead.

I'm sure this is something you can get used to with enough seat time, but IMO, it's just one less thing I gotta think about.

Last race when I broke/lost the pin for my hydro ram, I could still drive it out of the woods with just the steering box. If I do ever blow up something critical, I can always swap in a stock junkyard box with no assist to keep moving (I actually did this a few months ago while PSC had mine). Also, like I mentioned...the ability to build it incrementally according to your needs takes a lot of the sticker shock out of it. In the end the total $$ investment is probably about the same...but I've spread it over 3.5 years of wheeling.

I'm also running all standard tie-rod ends still (no heims). ES2026R and 2027L on the drag link; ES2010R&L on the tie rod. As much as I possibly can on this rig, I like retaining the ability to walk into just about any parts store in the country and keep it going with off-the-shelf stuff. In 3.5 years of wheeling (including 1.5 years of racing), I broke one ES2010 and wore out one 2026. no other issues.
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Unless you get them brand new for $1000

:D

vpklra.jpg
6 ply sidewall>3ply sidewall
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

pshhh, load range F / 12 ply ftw
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

hey so does this mean your coming on the tenth??? :woohoo:

I was comparing my setup to Travis's last night to see if his setup is similar to mine (since he said he would let me wheel his for a bit :))

If he has a 4.3 Atlas, his 1st gear crawl speed will be almost identical to what mine will be on 40s.

So Travis...what is it? :)



Haha yeah I told Carmelo to check my phone to see who it was as Adam and I were cleaning the case down.

Got it all done last night at like 12:30 a.m....I just got to work like 20 minutes ago. Gonna have to be here until 6:30-7. I need to stop working so late at night. I was beginning to lose it. I mangled a new shift rail seal and was being retarded in general.
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Full hydro, by nature, will cause the steering wheel position to 'drift'. With proper caster angle and the right orbital you can still have it return-to-center like a normal car, but there's not gonna be a positive 'center' to the steering wheel. With the hydro assist, I never have to wonder where the wheels are pointing. Wheel straight ahead = tires straight ahead.

I'm sure this is something you can get used to with enough seat time, but IMO, it's just one less thing I gotta think about.

Last race when I broke/lost the pin for my hydro ram, I could still drive it out of the woods with just the steering box. If I do ever blow up something critical, I can always swap in a stock junkyard box with no assist to keep moving (I actually did this a few months ago while PSC had mine). Also, like I mentioned...the ability to build it incrementally according to your needs takes a lot of the sticker shock out of it. In the end the total $$ investment is probably about the same...but I've spread it over 3.5 years of wheeling.

I'm also running all standard tie-rod ends still (no heims). ES2026R and 2027L on the drag link; ES2010R&L on the tie rod. As much as I possibly can on this rig, I like retaining the ability to walk into just about any parts store in the country and keep it going with off-the-shelf stuff. In 3.5 years of wheeling (including 1.5 years of racing), I broke one ES2010 and wore out one 2026. no other issues.

Yeah I'm unsure since I've only driven a rig with full hydro. It was good, but I didn't really like the lack of feeling "center".

I'm not sure, I still have a long while to think about it.

6 ply sidewall>3ply sidewall

Meh, we'll see how fast I blow them up.

hey so does this mean your coming on the tenth??? :woohoo:

Thinkin about it. I still kinda wanna get some work done on mine.
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Oh. And the phenomenal start to my day:

I've been daily driving the 5.9 ZJ for the last week or so because the Dodge needs new balljoints & tires, and it's fast & fun. It also has a sunroof, which I enjoy having wide open when it's nice out.

Well, it was nice out driving home last night. And it was nice out when I went to bed. Wasn't so nice out this morning. Matter of fact, we got almost 2" of rain overnight. I know this because that's how deep the water was in my cupholders...and that's also about how far the high water mark on my iPod is. :(

So I left for work 20 minutes late after toweling off everything the best I could. Only to find that the main highway was flooded at two exits, and ended up getting here an hour and a half late. And my ass is still wet. :(
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

don't forget about compound. TSL's have a good tread pattern but they're too hard... I'm sure if you're patient enough a set of creepies will pop up.

tsls suck

1981 tire technology brings the suck

in my experience the tread was too hard and the carcass too soft. the lugs would just fold and not grip anything. and they wouldnt stay on my rims at anything less than 15 psi (12.5 on an 8" wheel)

and they still wore like shit. half tread in 3000 miles. my super soft creepies lasted longer
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

oh and if anyone wants buff chix tomorrow night pm me
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Also note my fancy pitman arm nut. This is getting integrated into a sector shaft brace with this mounted bearing:

Whats the progress on this? I saw when you first posted pics of it, but nothing new.


Full hydro, by nature, will cause the steering wheel position to 'drift'. With proper caster angle and the right orbital you can still have it return-to-center like a normal car, but there's not gonna be a positive 'center' to the steering wheel. With the hydro assist, I never have to wonder where the wheels are pointing. Wheel straight ahead = tires straight ahead.

Last race when I broke/lost the pin for my hydro ram, I could still drive it out of the woods with just the steering box. If I do ever blow up something critical, I can always swap in a stock junkyard box with no assist to keep moving (I actually did this a few months ago while PSC had mine). Also, like I mentioned...the ability to build it incrementally according to your needs takes a lot of the sticker shock out of it. In the end the total $$ investment is probably about the same...but I've spread it over 3.5 years of wheeling.

These are my mean reasons why I wanna stick to an assist setup, more of a positive steering feel and center and that I could continue to steer with the engine off/assist setup takes a dump.
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

looks like ill be running gay yukons out back 10 fact dont make rear alloys in full float, o wells shits ordered though
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Full hydro, by nature, will cause the steering wheel position to 'drift'. With proper caster angle and the right orbital you can still have it return-to-center like a normal car, but there's not gonna be a positive 'center' to the steering wheel. With the hydro assist, I never have to wonder where the wheels are pointing. Wheel straight ahead = tires straight ahead.

I'm sure this is something you can get used to with enough seat time, but IMO, it's just one less thing I gotta think about.
Yeah I'm unsure since I've only driven a rig with full hydro. It was good, but I didn't really like the lack of feeling "center".

I'm not sure, I still have a long while to think about it.
Well, here's my take on that.
It does take some getting used to, both driver and spotter. As Colin can attest telling me to "straighten the wheels" is about useless. However, other than that it is very quick to pick up. At first I found myself always wanting to look at the tire (which I can't when I'm strapped in) but after a few runs I don't even notice it anymore. The extreme ease of turning the tires is excellent. Having a full hydro setup forces you to really think about what your front tires are doing, and I'm not sure that is a bad thing.

My tires won't return to center just sitting there (just like anything else), but move a bit and they will return on their own without any input.

I will say that if having a steering wheel pointing in the right direction every time or using a clockspring for cruise/horn is of your concern, don't do full hydro. My steering wheel might be straight when my tires are one moment but a few turns later and its upside down when the wheels are straight.

I didn't have much of a choice as there was no good way of getting a draglink in my setup. I love my steering now and wouldn't change a thing.
looks like ill be running gay yukons out back 10 fact dont make rear alloys in full float, o wells shits ordered though
Unfortunately I had to do the same. I couldn't drop $1000+ on double spline shafts and flanges.
Which ones did you go with the 1541H or the 4340?
 
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Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I hate it when spotters say "turn right/left." Turn towards passenger/driver is the only way to give orders.
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

:roflmao:

Yeah I think you were getting annoyed after awhile.

"Straighten out...oh yeah sorry driver more"

:D
Nah, no biggie.
"Sharp straight!"
;)
I hate it when spotters say "turn right/left." Turn towards passenger/driver is the only way to give orders.
Exactly.
That's one reason why there are very few people I allow to spot me.
 
Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

looks like ill be running gay yukons out back 10 fact dont make rear alloys in full float, o wells shits ordered though

Did you call them?

I thought I saw them listed in their catalog.

Yeah I did, 3 different part numbers. First two are 35-spline, last is a blank.

MG31160CB Dana 60 Full Float Cut to fit LH/RH 34”- 36.5”
MG31161CB Dana 60 Full Float Cut to fit LH/RH 37”- 39.5”
MG31162C Dana 60 Full Float Blank 39”
 
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