The Frog Blog

[jimbosz07]

Hey Connor if you don't want that Aussie I might be able to take it off your hands....

 

[connor0770]

Hey Connor if you don't want that Aussie I might be able to take it off your hands....

As of now i think im gonna keep it. But if not, ill let you know.

You will never really know it is there on the street. Just a little clicking. On the trail it was fairly noisy but the traction I gained with mine is worth much more pain than a little noise hear and there.

Josh

Yea, i can deal wth the noise. Plus i have a solid diff cover, so that should help buffer some of the noise. So did it help you get up alot of stuff?

 

[rocknxj]

You will never really know it is there on the street. Just a little clicking. On the trail it was fairly noisy but the traction I gained with mine is worth much more pain than a little noise hear and there.

Josh

X2

And yeah, front locker is the way to to. Selectable is best, but on a budget, an Aussie or Spartan is good. Aussie is stronger but Spartan is pretty good.

 

[XJensen]

So did it help you get up alot of stuff?

It helped me get up stuff I wouldn't have a chance at before. The difference is ridiculous.

 

[rocknxj]

I installed my APN header this weekend and found it to be a fairly easy job with great results. My OE exhaust manifold had cracks and I was losing power and the exhaust sounded like el crappo, so I went with the inexpensive, but highly recommended APN header from Automotive Parts Network.

First off, I found plenty of information on this forum before I started and found most of it to be true. I realize that I cannot possibly add to what has already been said about this installation, but I will do my best to give my point of view. I have to thank mhopton who originally posted "My Successful APN header install" thread with decent pics, to boot. Here's what I learned during the process:

Removal and installation is fairly straightforward. Allot yourself about 3 hours for tear down, and a couple more for installation, providing you have no problems. I have heard that some had to grind the manifold to get it to fit properly, but I had no such problems.

For parts, I bought the 14mm and 15mm swivel-headed Gear Wrenches. I do not know who recommended the 15mm, but it was totally unnecessary for my '99 manifold. I used the 14mm to some extent but I feel that I could have done the job without. Still though, they appear to be very useful tools and I will use them for other jobs. A 12mm Gear Wrench would have been very helpful when removing the power steering pump bolts. I mean c'mon, how long do those things have to be, anyway? If you have not done so, buy the metric and SAE set of Gear Wrenches with the swivel heads. Better yet, go to Harbor Freight and get their cheaper brand to save some bucks.

Next, I have to take some time to swear at manifold bolts #1 and #2. Those bolts are on the underside of the intake manifold and they are a real PITA to get to. The rest of the bolts are easy to get at and are not as much trouble to loosen or torque. I found it impossible to get the torque wrench on either of those bolts, but I did my best to crank them down as much as the other bolts (which are torqued to 23 and 24 ft lbs).

I have found that most maintenance on a lifted vehicle is easy, but this one job that a lifted Jeep puts you at a disadvantage. Using a step ladder and constantly bending over and balancing on one leg to reach the manifold bolts is difficult and puts your body in a precarious position. One slip and you might as well be called Sally, because your junk could be removed by the after market bumper that is in dangerous proximity to the happy place. I'm just saying...But I digress, reaching bolts #1 and #2 from the underside is also more difficult as you now have to reach higher than when stock. My 5.5" lift and 33" tires did me no favors this weekend.

I also recommend getting a set of fuel injector o-rings before tear down. You might as well replace them during installation of the header since the injectors are out anyway. My dealer did not have any so I simply cleaned them and lubed them during reassembly. I also had a bad rubber vacuum line boot on the side of the intake manifold. Again, check all and have new items on hand before tear down.

Now, on with the pics:

Photo 1: The before shot. Good practice to take a pic so you know how everything is supposed to look when you are done with the job.

Photo 2: Here's the bad rubber boot on the vacuum line. Dealer had none, so I simply cut the bad part off and will replace at a later date.

Photo 3: Removed the throttle body and tired it up on the hood. Directions say to remove all cables and lines. Yeah, right. Don't do that.

Photo 4: Had a bad gasket in the box. I bought a Fel Pro gasket in advance, but that did not fit as well as this one. A little work with a hammer and some Copper Kote fixed this right up. The header was in a large box and the gasket was laying on top in a flimsy cardboard package. Who does that, right?

Photo 5: This one has me upset. My brand new Brown Dog motor mount (driver's side) is melted from the stock manifold. Ugh.

Photo 6: Stock exhaust manifold. Can you see cracks?

Photo 7: How about now?

Photo 8: ...and now?

Photo 9: Side by side. Which header do you prefer?

Photo 10: Hang your gasket from your favorite parts tree and coat that beast with Copper Kote.

Photo 11: New APN header in place. Looking good!

Photo 12: Job all done. Engine smoked bad while the oil burned off the header, but I had no problems with the RPMs, which means no vacuum problems. The Frog purrs like a kitten now and I cannot wait for my new 2.5" cat back system with Magnaflow muffler.

Photo 13: One last thing I did was cut the end of the tail pipe off. It suffered some damage last week on Deer Valley so I simply hacked it off and got rid of it. Maybe I should put that on the Karma thread...

<end>

 

[connor0770]

NICE write up!! I have a one crack in my header right now, but nothing tooo big. This is kind of a random question, but, since you have the 5.5 on 33's right now, do you think you could ever fit 35's under there with minor trimming and bump-stopping? I have been looking into piecing together a new kit. RE 5.5 coils and leafs, with RC LA's. Its down the road, but i want to research as much as possible first.

 

[FlexdXJ]

NICE write up!! I have a one crack in my header right now, but nothing tooo big. This is kind of a random question, but, since you have the 5.5 on 33's right now, do you think you could ever fit 35's under there with minor trimming and bump-stopping? I have been looking into piecing together a new kit. RE 5.5 coils and leafs, with RC LA's. Its down the road, but i want to research as much as possible first.

I'm sure he could no problem with some trimming.

 

[rocknxj]

NICE write up!! I have a one crack in my header right now, but nothing tooo big. This is kind of a random question, but, since you have the 5.5 on 33's right now, do you think you could ever fit 35's under there with minor trimming and bump-stopping? I have been looking into piecing together a new kit. RE 5.5 coils and leafs, with RC LA's. Its down the road, but i want to research as much as possible first.

Yes, to go to 35's would mean trimming the front fenders up to the top line where the crappy plastic fenders are. I'd draw a line on the top of the fender flares as a guide. I'd also go for taller bump stops front and rear.

Then I"d run larger/better brakes and longer brake lines, with rear disks from a ZJ being a good idea as well. Rear fenders would need to be trimmed to where my quarter panels begin. I got into some weird positions during Sierra Fest and rubbed where I have never rubbed before. Inner fender wells have marks, as do the LCAs and front brake line brackets show damage from the tires so I know my 33's are a tad too tall for my uncut fenders.

I would not recommend a SA lift for 35's. I'd make sure to run a tall LA lift for that size tire. I'm sure a short arm lift with drop brackets is adequate, but I sincerely believe I am pushing it with my tires the way it is.

I'd also swap the D30 and C8.25 axles to D44, at a minimum and gear them to 4.88 and put selectable lockers front and rear as my chintzy Spartan would die on the first trip. This swap sounds expensive and much more complex than just bump stopping and trimming, but it can and has been done many times. I'd just prepare for that, that's all.

 

[srmitchell]

Looks good! Is the power better?

Change you sig BTW.

 

[rocknxj]

Looks good! Is the power better?

Change you sig BTW.

Power seems better as I don't have the annoying hot gas spewing from the man cracks. Sound is more solid, but I probably won't get more noticeable power until I get the performance muffler and better flowing exhaust pipe.

As seen in the pics, I also need to swap my melted Brown Dog poly bushings. I had hoped they would have eased up a bit over the past couple of hundred miles, but idle seems a tad more firm than I expected and I still have some idle vibes that I prefer not to have. I might go with rubber bushings this time 'round. I just hope the second set do not melt.

 

[Brown Dog]

Give us a call about the motor mounts... 866 401 3877

 

[connor0770]

^^^^^ wow i really cant believe that kind of service! this people are dedicated! When my motor mounts break i know who im going to!

And about going to 35's. Dare i say it on , but didnt you say you wanted a wrangler if you were going to 35's??? i too have been thinking the same thing. Im not ready to step up to 35's at all, so i think my next step would be 33's, so im halfway there and can still wheel it without spending too much money.

 

[rocknxj]

^^^^^ wow i really cant believe that kind of service! this people are dedicated! When my motor mounts break i know who im going to!

And about going to 35's. Dare i say it on , but didnt you say you wanted a wrangler if you were going to 35's??? i too have been thinking the same thing. Im not ready to step up to 35's at all, so i think my next step would be 33's, so im halfway there and can still wheel it without spending too much money.

Me thinks I'm being stalked by a really cool company. I think that is pretty awesome customer service also. Can't say enough good things about Brown Dog.

Yes, I said I would go with a TJ if I were to lift the Jeep enough to fit 35's. When I wrote my reply, I was trying to suggest what would be needed for the taller tires. I really do believe I'd rather have a TJ on 35's than deal with all the extra effort needed on my worn out XJ. Also know that I am perfectly happy with my 33's and think that would be hard to improve on, all things considered.

Thanks for reading the FB so closely, too. That means a lot to me, by the way. I appreciate the support and comments. :wave:

 

[FlexdXJ]

I will be ordering from brown dog when I feel my motor and trans mounts are about to go.

 

[tribal_4x4]

waste of time to improve a cherokee to fit 35s? whats the difference with a TJ? most still have a dana 35 rear end and have a low pinion 30 which is weaker then a high pinion. if you were to put bigger axles under a TJ you would be spending WAY more because you have to get all brackets that invlove coil sprung rear ends and track bars blah blah blah... everything for a TJ is mor expensive. Only benefit is full frame which if you get a frame stiffening kit on an XJ your set. absolutely no difference when running a 35 on a cherokee then a tj. im running 35s and have ZERO issues. the high pinion can handle a 35 with no locker just fine. a posi or locker you may need upgraded shafts but thats it. the 29 spline 8.25 holds up perfectly even locked. im not nice to my jeep and it doesnt even flinch at what i throw at it

 

[knucklehead 61]

i run 35's on my heep as well.
8.25 & hp 30 w/ 30 spline axles.
arb's in both ends.
i don't beat it to death, but i don't baby it either.

 

[rocknxj]

I'm not harshing on anybody running 35's on an XJ. I was trying to say that my preference was to build a TJ on 35's (or higher) instead of an XJ, due to cost, strength, and function. I built my rig to tow a trailer, haul a little kid, and for my wife to use on a daily basis, so my needs are different.

I've seen some amazing Cherokees on 35's, some built on a budget, and others more extreme. No doubt they rock on taller tires, but still maintain that 33's are the creamy center between the 31" world and the 35" world. For me, it's a happy medium...all things considered.

I plan to keep the Frog until it dies or falls apart. As my needs change, so will my opinions of how to build it. I was happy on 31's for a while, until I ran difficult trails and wanted something taller. Odds are I will change my mind again as my XJ ages, so until then, I will keep an open mind, wheel my pig, and retain all good ideas for a future build.

 

[rocknxj]

i run 35's on my heep as well.
8.25 & hp 30 w/ 30 spline axles.
arb's in both ends.
i don't beat it to death, but i don't baby it either.

That's a great picture. Save that for the future ROTM.

 

[VET'S XJ]

Kelly-
I am lovin the frog blog....I read it all the way through! You have definitely helped make up my mind about how to spend a couple hundred buck on my jeep...APN header and brown dog mounts. Thanks for taking the time to share with us your ventures on realy nice and clean rig!

Bryan

 

[hiimmred]

I've seen some amazing Cherokees on 35's, some built on a budget, and others more extreme. No doubt they rock on taller tires, but still maintain that 33's are the creamy center between the 31" world and the 35" world. For me, it's a happy medium...all things considered.

I agree Kelly, and am moving up to 33" KM2's in the next few days. Love your Frog! Now I gotta go get me some Oreo's and milk.

Mr. Ed