The Deal with all these "Retro" New Vehicles?

[bajacalal]

Would anyone dare say they have fallen lower than where the “inferior” import competitors originally started?

Their import competitors started out from scratch offering what the big 3 couldn't (reliable economy cars). Then, reliable, economic and fun to drive cars and from that point I don't think the big 3 are going to recover, theyre too entrenched, too saddled with problems to produce much else than your basic rental car. I think they still have an edge on heavy duty vehicles and their few flagships designed around popular historic designs...

As much as I hate to say it the first company that comes out with a 55mpg 4 passenger, nice handling, attractive easy to work on box in the $15,000 range will make a killing.

Wassn't that (more or less) what happened with the original Honda CVCC cars.

The reason I'll never buy a new car is that no-one makes one I really like! They're all imports, or wanna-be imports, with less engine noise than a well-built axle, and suspensions so soft I'd rather go to sleep on them than drive them.

On the other hand, I think the imports nailed it. Theyre the more "responsive" non-v8 cars on the market these days. A friend of mine, his family runs an exhaust shop. Most of the customers are dealerships (its near a big auto park). There are a lot of people who insist on the dealer fitting a louder exhaust to close the deal. I like the new mazdas btw I don't buy into the whole new cars thing either, because of the value depreciation.

The GTO has a name, the Holden Commodore (the modern GM counter to the age old GM Holden vs. Mad-Max Ford XC Falcon...

I think its actually the Holden Monaro which is their flagship vehicle. Still, I don't think Americans would buy a car called Monaro. The Commordore is a real RWD car and was for a time, equipped with a de-tuned (normally aspirated) Nissan Skyline drivetrain. In a basic midsize car police and taxis were using. Now, WTF, why can't Chevy do that here, I think they would sell a lot more cars with I-6 DOHC than with some anemic 60 deg. V-6 block used at the time.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Yeah thats all great, but why name it the GTO? If they would have named it something else it would be an awesome car, instead its an awesome car that didn't really live up to people's expectations. I guess they just named it that for marketing purposes?

sorry if someone else brought this up, but i cant read through the whole thread when you guys write frickin books in your posts

I'm actually glad they named it the GTO, the car does represent the muscle car ideal very well and since Pontiac brought us the car from Holden, I couldn't think of a better name for it. But yes, I'd agree that if the entire goal of bringing us the Holden Monaro and badging it as a GTO was simply to carry on the classic heritage - it was a major flop. I always like to think of these new era cars as the next step in the muscle car evolution - not trying to capture the nostalgia, just re-defining it.

Ed Stephens nailed it in his previous post when he described the overall view of the classic GTO's. It was an option package and very few GTO's were real powerful well performing cars.

Funny thing is, I've seen lots of early posts in Pontiac forums back in '03 when the GTO was being promoted...... so many original GTO owners were badmouthing the car..... now many own one to compliment their classic.

 

[Grant]

Thats "0-100-0 in 11 seconds" and it took 7 seconds for the 100-0 part.

And it costs how much again?

A shifter kart can run 0-100-0 in 7 seconds. A used shifter kart will set you back $5K to $8K. And you can buy a house with the rest of your cash.

Not convinced? see a shifter kart vs a Bondurant prepp'd Vette.

http://www.waltersmotorsports.com/Other/kart_vs_corvette.wmv


Muscle cars, Muscle cars, Muscle cars. Too bad a $30K Subaru can blow most any of them away, in straight line speed, handling, cornering, accelleration and braking. And the Subaru is perfectly streetable, gets 30mpg plus on the interstate, is a great DD, and can be used all year round.

:laugh3:

Hey YellaHeep, wanna come ice racing at Georgetown in that GTO next weekend?
:laugh3:

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Muscle cars, Muscle cars, Muscle cars. Too bad a $30K Subaru can blow most any of them away, in straight line speed, handling, cornering, accelleration and braking. And the Subaru is perfectly streetable, gets 30mpg plus on the interstate, is a great DD, and can be used all year round.

Which Subaru are you talking about? The STi? As a former owner I agree with the speed aspect (0-60 in 4.6 sec), but it BARELY got out of the teen mpg figures! I usually saw 18 mpg, and that was driving conservatively. Also, the tires that come with the STi are WORTHLESS in the snow! Mine sat on the side of the road for three days while I waited for the snow to melt to so I could get it back up my driveway!

-----Matt-----

 

[casm]

Why retro cars? Because the auto industry in general is out of ideas, and nostalgia is one of the few things that shifts cars off of showroom floors. Vehicles have become carbon copies of each other in every segment represented in the US, and auto manufacturers in the US (note that that doesn't mean 'American automakers' - everyone's guilty of it) aren't trying anything new.

I personally don't like them - most are too contrived, and most of the people buying them would never have been able to live with the originals for ten minutes. The Mini is kind of an exception to this, since it's more of an evolution than a copy - and a surprising success, seeing as how the original Mini was never a popular vehicle in North America. But it's still a rehash vehicle, carried on the back of the original's success.

You can't deliberately design a vehicle that is both successful and endearing. A 1976 Civic may be quirky by today's standards, but compared to the original Beetle, how desirable are they as a collectible vehicle? The retro fad is an attempt at making ultimately faceless products endearing.

Personally, I think the auto industry is going to shake itself out in some very big ways over the next decade. We're going to see more manufacturers fail, more mergers, and more names disappear. Expect the Chinese to be where the Japanese were 30 years ago by then.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Which Subaru are you talking about? The STi? As a former owner I agree with the speed aspect (0-60 in 4.6 sec), but it BARELY got out of the teen mpg figures! I usually saw 18 mpg, and that was driving conservatively. Also, the tires that come with the STi are WORTHLESS in the snow! Mine sat on the side of the road for three days while I waited for the snow to melt to so I could get it back up my driveway!

-----Matt-----

Somehow, I think Grant is on a slightly different playing field.

 

[Grant]

Which Subaru are you talking about? The STi? As a former owner I agree with the speed aspect (0-60 in 4.6 sec), but it BARELY got out of the teen mpg figures! I usually saw 18 mpg, and that was driving conservatively. Also, the tires that come with the STi are WORTHLESS in the snow! Mine sat on the side of the road for three days while I waited for the snow to melt to so I could get it back up my driveway!

-----Matt-----

The STi, round trip from CO to Topeka KS, just shy of 1500 miles. 75mph in CO and 70 in KS. Wife driving to SCCA nationals last year.

Of course when I drive it I am lucky to see 18mpg.

I am sure you were aware that the tires on the STi are pretty much summer only tires, definitely not all season, and very definitely not winter tires. My wife's STI came with the Bridgestone Potenza's. Fairly good for high perfromance tires, lasted 3000 miles. Ran Dunlop Sports this summer, very noisy.

The STi rides on dedicated winter rims and tires, knock off BBS rims, and Nokian Hakkapelitta 2's with full studs. About the best snow and ice tire you can legally run. I have a set of Pirelli rally tires used in testing in Finland, but they are hardly DOT legal, and require a swap to a WRX brake setup so we can run 16" wheels. Not a legal mod for the ice racing we do.

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Somehow, I think Grant is on a slightly different playing field.

Huh?

-----Matt-----

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Hey YellaHeep, wanna come ice racing at Georgetown in that GTO next weekend?
:laugh3:

Heh heh, I have a feeling that even if I were to swap on some studded snows, people would be asking "Who's driving that GTO? Ray Charles???" I'll leave the ice track stuff to you guys......

I keep meaning to head up there to watch those races, but never end up getting there.

:laugh3:

 

[mdl]

im really not understanding what is happening here?

Are they just making mustle car look alikes or are they really bringing them back?

 

[mowlasley]

I don't have a problem with {Insert car maker here} bringing back the name of some classic automobile as long as it doesn't suck.

We all remember the Nova II, though, right? That sort of crap sickens me.

 

[mdl]

Im all for them bringing back muscle cars. Its about damn time we stopped with all this lame ass shit thats been around lately. Bring back power.