So am I about to learn how to weld?

[Laurentide]

I was working on a hitch installation on my '99, using a breaker bar to get the exhaust hanger bolts out of the passenger side frame rail. They were holding the remains of the original hanger, which in turn was hiding a nasty rot hole. As I was using the bar on the last bolt (the one present in the pics), I peeled the whole frame apart:

Rear of hole:

Front of hole:

I'm obviously pretty bummed about this, as I've only had the vehicle for about 6 weeks, and I bought it to tow a small aluminum boat. There are a few other rot spots on the rails that I'd like to fix, but nothing like this gaping hole. The floor pans are solid, surprisingly, and the body is good for a '99.

I've never used a welder, but I'm willing to learn. Would this be too difficult for a novice? The guy at the local welding shop told me that he wouldn't weld anything with rust present, so that's not an option. If I'm going to drop the tank and cut and clean, I should probably just figure this out on my own. Am I thinking straight here, or throwing good time/money after bad?

 

[Laurentide]

Another thought (again, I'm not a welder or fabricator, just a backyard hack): Would it be possible to clean this up and bolt a box sleeve around this area? I guess with steel tubes to run the bolts through. Am I an idiot to even consider this? The thought of welding for my first time upside down kind of scares the crap out of me.

 

[Laurentide]

Sorry for all the replies to myself...I think I waited too long to edit. Anyway, another thought is to weld a piece of box steel inside the frame going as far forward as possible. I dunno...I'm just throwing bad ideas out there until someone who knows what they're talking about steps in. Thanks guys!

 

[Matthew Currie]

That rust is both bad and unusual. It's pretty rare for that part of the subframe to rot out without the rest of the vehicle being a basket case. I would not suggest welding this unless you can cut back to sound metal and replace a large part of it. Your welding adviser is right that this would be very difficult to do, if not impossible. If you try welding to what is shown, it will just fizzle.

What you can do and what will work depends a lot on how far the rust goes, and what is left to attach things to. If both frame rails are this bad, I would cancel all thought of towing at least. If it's just the hanger portion of the right hand rail, I would consider bolting something together, but it will have to be pretty extensive and whether it works will depend a little on what is left at the outside end for attachment.

It's hard to tell from the pictures how far up the sides of the frame member the rust goes. If it's fairly well concentrated at the bottom, perhaps you have a chance of bolting in a piece that will be held firmly by the sides. If the rust goes up, bolting options may disappear as well.

I'd want to consult further with some experts on this.

 

[kastein]

Looks just like the bottom of the frame rail on my 98... and about as bad as the 96 I patched up well enough to hold together for a few years.

This isn't something you want to be your first welding project, that's for sure.

It's repairable - it may not be legal in VT to pass inspection, technically, but I doubt they will notice first of all and second, the solution to that problem is to drive it down a muddy road before bringing it in for inspection. Make sure you paint the inside of the frame rail afterward to avoid it rusting out from the inside again, I would recommend something like Eastwood Internal Frame Coating, which is what I typically use.

EDIT: oh, and my 98 is damn near rust free as well, except for a quarter size spot on the passenger front floorboard, some small holes in the rear lower quarters, one small hole in a rocker panel, and the frame issue mentioned previously. It's really odd, never seen another one rot out like that until you posted yours. The rot goes from a few inches behind the bumpstop to well underneath the trailer hitch mounting flange. My plan is to cut back to clean metal (it doesn't extend up the sides of the frame rail - my suspicion is that the rot is caused by road salt collecting in the bottom of the frame rail, since the trailer hitch hardware keeps it from draining out those holes) and festering, so it doesn't really go up the sides that far. Then I'll put a piece of 1/8 or 3/16 wall box tube of an appropriate size INSIDE the frame rail through the hole and stitch weld the edge of the unibody frame rail to it from the outside. After that, a good heavy coating on the inside from that Eastwood product and a few layers of Hammerite on the outside should keep it rust free for the next decade or so.

 

[souske]

Check out foxwar's inside the.framerail rear bumper mount.
That would give you something to work.with.

How far until you get to sound metal?

 

[Laurentide]

OK, thanks guys. I'm going to see if I can come up with a plan to box sleeve that entire rail with JB and a lot of heavy shank rivets and bolts after getting back to clean metal. The upper vertical parts of the rail are intact and useable, and the driver's side is solid. I believe what happened here was the hanger collected salt water and trapped it. It's weird because the floors and body are good on this one, except for the roof rust spots:

Just throwing those pics up ^^ to illustrate why I think it's worth salvaging.

Thanks for the help! I'll check back in when I come up with a plan.

 

[Laurentide]

Check out foxwar's inside the.framerail rear bumper mount.
That would give you something to work.with.

How far until you get to sound metal?

Thanks, I've been looking at that awesome work of his.

About a half inch above the bend is good metal, and just past the forward hanger bolt hole is good.

 

[kastein]

I really wouldn't suggest JBweld and rivets, but it's your life, not mine, your call...

 

[Laurentide]

I really wouldn't suggest JBweld and rivets, but it's your life, not mine, your call...

Ha, yeah. I'll rethink that while I come up with a plan. Square tubing inside the existing vertical rails is what I'm thinking on...

kastein, this was really helpful, many thanks: EDIT: oh, and my 98 is damn near rust free as well, except for a quarter size spot on the passenger front floorboard, some small holes in the rear lower quarters, one small hole in a rocker panel, and the frame issue mentioned previously. It's really odd, never seen another one rot out like that until you posted yours. The rot goes from a few inches behind the bumpstop to well underneath the trailer hitch mounting flange. My plan is to cut back to clean metal (it doesn't extend up the sides of the frame rail - my suspicion is that the rot is caused by road salt collecting in the bottom of the frame rail, since the trailer hitch hardware keeps it from draining out those holes) and festering, so it doesn't really go up the sides that far. Then I'll put a piece of 1/8 or 3/16 wall box tube of an appropriate size INSIDE the frame rail through the hole and stitch weld the edge of the unibody frame rail to it from the outside. After that, a good heavy coating on the inside from that Eastwood product and a few layers of Hammerite on the outside should keep it rust free for the next decade or so.

 

[Laurentide]

I just found some similar issues on the driver's side that had been covered with undercoating, so I called the seller. He has a machine shop in his barn, and is going to weld in new 2x4 box steel and fabricate the fuel line/vent pass-through. He's just going to charge me for supplies :sunshine:...and give me a a loaner car. Good guy, and I should've just called him first before attempting something half-assed without proper tools or skills.

I'll post some pics of the fix when I get the Jeep back. Cheers.

 

[kastein]

Awesome! That is a pretty stand up thing for him to do, I would never have expected something like that to happen.

 

[Laurentide]

Awesome! That is a pretty stand up thing for him to do, I would never have expected something like that to happen.

Ya, I certainly didn't expect it, but I'm super psyched that he's going to take care of it. He's very much a stand up guy, and has a killer shop with a lift, sliding hoist, air tools and welder. He's a hobbyist who sells vehicles once in a while. I'm lucking out here for sure.

 

[Matthew Currie]

A good solution if it's well done. Good 99's are getting very thin on the ground in Vermont!

 

[cm12385]

If not mind, please post pictures of the repair, I am curious to see how it turns out.

 

[Laurentide]

A good solution if it's well done. Good 99's are getting very thin on the ground in Vermont!

Yeah, I searched CL for many months for the "golden year." it's pretty much a wasteland of donor vehicles up here.

If not mind, please post pictures of the repair, I am curious to see how it turns out.

Will do. He usually texts me progress pics when he's doing major work. I'm pretty curious myself!

 

[Laurentide]

Some progress on this slow going project. Starting to fab the 2x4 to fit over the unibody box channels. These sleeves will be extended an additional 6" forward to join the structurally sound parts of the rails. He's been using the hitch as a template to ensure proper alignment of the new mounting holes. This is obviously just a dry fit before cutting, cleaning and welding. There will also be 4" through bolts.

Some bad stuff here under the fuel fill/vent cavity. This will basically be a new framing member when complete:

Fortunately, there's more good metal than bad, and we're thinking that, in the end, I'll have a better than new rear "frame," as it'll be all welded and bolted 3/16 steel.

 

[kastein]

That looks like some good clean work. If his welding is as quality as his metal prep you are in very good hands :thumbup:

The only thing I really can't stress enough here is to make sure the inside of the frame rail is re-coated with some sort of corrosion inhibitor afterward, and that it gets between the welded layers. If it's left alone, the space between the new and old metal will wick up water due to capillary action and it will fester in there and rust the area around the weld out from the inside, as the intense heat of welding will have burnt any remaining paint/undercoating/primer/e-coat/galvanizing off, leaving bare steel behind. I forget if I plugged it in here already but I'm a huge fan of Eastwoods Internal Frame Coating, especially since it comes with a special whip/nozzle applicator that can be snaked inside the frame rail through access holes to apply the coating everywhere.

 

[Laurentide]

Will do, kastein. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Laurentide]

It's not perfect, and it wasn't easy, but I've got a sturdy hitch on the '99 now. My next step is to get a welder and practice my beads for the next round of frame reinforcement. I hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend. Cheers!

EDIT: Yeah, kastein, this was done at my mechanic's site, and the undercoating was sprayed on at the end of the process, so it's not a lifetime fix by any means. But it's better than what I had a week ago.