Snow run ideas...

2xtreme said:
In my experience you can't "plan" snow runs till you are certain there is snow where you are going;)

I am hoping to plan at least 2 snow runs this year. I hope to do 1 at Jack's pass (near Index/Skykomish) with two groups, 1 that plans on making it all the way over the pass and the other that is interested in having more fun trying to see how far they can get in the snow and playing in the snow. The trip I think we should do down near Snoqualmie Pass, lots of details still to work out.

I have also brought up and would consider a over night igloo run if there is enough interest and the group is prepared enough to do it. This would have to be a VERY well organized run with lots of concern of preparedness of both vehicles and participants. (I want to know who is interested and their experience with snow camping??)

I would also like to find some other good places to try some wheeling in the snow. As our group is expanding significantly there must be others with ideas of other places to try?

Michael
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Sound slike Fun, I am a very experienced snow camper, Snow shoes 4 season tent and all, we even went on a snow shoe trip once JUST TO BUILD A SNOW CAVE and sleep in it. Sound slike fun huh? Anyway my jeep only has 32" by 12.50 mud tires, would that do? no lockers

Jayson
 
Elfwizard1975 said:
Sound slike Fun, I am a very experienced snow camper, Snow shoes 4 season tent and all, we even went on a snow shoe trip once JUST TO BUILD A SNOW CAVE and sleep in it. Sound slike fun huh? Anyway my jeep only has 32" by 12.50 mud tires, would that do? no lockers

Jayson
Click to expand...

Sounds great. Your rig should do just fine. I believe in airing down to around 4 psi, to float on the snow better with wider tires. Lockers in snow get mixed reviews. Some say they help, while others say they bury you faster. Personally, I don't think it matters too much at all.
 
For those who have "little" experience wheeling in the snow. Here are a few comments. Several of us have found (or experienced :) ) the fact that the condition of the snow can vary significantly from one trip to another. And the ability of the group will change based on this snow condition.

We have always allowed jeeps with smaller tires on "most" snow run's. We have actually had several people with 31's and 32's do very well following a couple of others with larger tires. I think that siped tires and driving skill on the snow are of more inportance (unless you are leading). Lockers make very little difference in the snow. Airing down tires and siping are VERY usefull. We usually carry chains, but very rarely use them.

HTH,
Michael
 
hards91xj said:
Hans and I know how to get both stuck while trying to get the other out.:gag:
Entertaining ourselves while waiting for everyone else
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I seem to remember not getting stuck driving circles around both of you while you were both holding up the rest of the group;) (oops, was that out loud:gag: )

Michael
 
Howard that makes me chuckle. I remember that. Like two monkey on opposites side of a rope. Snow tug-o-war rules.

I would love to go on a overnight snow run but can't this year. I have a bug to finish, right Michael.

I have a vested interest in the overnight trip being a success. Being that I want to go next year, and want to have people to go with. So I may interject some of what I have learned from the couple of snow caving adventures, and the several back country snow trips I have been on.
 
XJourney said:
Howard that makes me chuckle. I remember that. Like two monkey on opposites side of a rope. Snow tug-o-war rules.

I would love to go on a overnight snow run but can't this year. I have a bug to finish, right Michael.

I have a vested interest in the overnight trip being a success. Being that I want to go next year, and want to have people to go with. So I may interject some of what I have learned from the couple of snow caving adventures, and the several back country snow trips I have been on.
Click to expand...

Someone needs to finish that Bug before your in the dog house permanently:cheers:

We would appreciate your input for the hypothermia run:worship:
BTW, trying to bury your jeep in the snow does not count as a snow cave;)

Michael
 
Funny you mention burying the jeep as a snow cave. I figured you have three sleeping options for a Hypo run.
Best to worst

1: build a snow cave: the warmest, I have had a snow cave @ 60* while cooking dinner. but I have never been able to build a successful one with under 4 feet of snow. And nothing sucks worst then having to build a second snowcave at 3:00am @15*- windchill because your cave decided to collapse @ 6000 ft in Jan. Ask me how I know.;) And type of snow can make you or break you.

2: Four season tent: Second warmest. Not everyone has one. I don't. Unless there is alot of snow I don't like camping in the winter.

3: Sleep in your Jeep: I personally have done this once below freezing, and it was cold in there. Guaranteed to stay dry, unless your Matt. BUT the jeep is the coldest. Metal is a very poor insulator. But if you buryed your jeep it should stay at 32* and actually be warmer then that. Same reason snow caves are so warm relatively speaking. This last option is only a theory but I am pretty sure it would work. I would bet my fingers and toes on it.:)
 
XJourney said:
3: Sleep in your Jeep: I personally have done this once below freezing, and it was cold in there. Guaranteed to stay dry, unless your Matt. BUT the jeep is the coldest. Metal is a very poor insulator. But if you buryed your jeep it should stay at 32* and actually be warmer then that. Same reason snow caves are so warm relatively speaking. This last option is only a theory but I am pretty sure it would work. I would bet my fingers and toes on it.:)
Click to expand...

Survival training in the Army taught me never to use metal for shelter, but to use non-conductive materials instead when available. Case in point (being in an aviation unit) was not using skins or structure, but that carpeting or other synthetics were acceptable because they're poor heat conductors.

I've done snow camping trips where caving wasn't an option due to invalid snow type, but what worked best for us were bivy sacks for some...while others shared tents with partial snow walls surrounding and an extra tarp layer on top. I've done the 'foxhole' style where we used canvas tarps for a roof, covered with evergreen branches on top and lining the floor. THAT worked really well.
 
ECKSJAY said:
Survival training in the Army taught me never to use metal for shelter, but to use non-conductive materials instead when available. Case in point (being in an aviation unit) was not using skins or structure, but that carpeting or other synthetics were acceptable because they're poor heat conductors.
Click to expand...

X eleventy

Where the jeep idea rules is that you WILL stay dry. And you know that is the biggest issue with back country travel. It is difficult to stay warm if your wet. Which is why cotton has the nickname of "death cloth" And with the amount of cotton that would probably be on this trip, staying dry is the main goal.

The main thing is that IF you did the jeep thing, you had better have a (-20*) mummy bag, sleeping pad, full interior, lots of warm cloths and a sleeping platform to get you off the floor of the jeep. And then you may stay warm enough.:shiver:

For those who do this trip do everyone else a favor and wear wool or synthetics.
 
XJourney said:
X eleventy
The main thing is that IF you did the jeep thing, you had better have a (-20*) mummy bag, sleeping pad, full interior, lots of warm cloths and a sleeping platform to get you off the floor of the jeep. And then you may stay warm enough.:shiver:
Click to expand...

I slept on the metal floor of my Jeep 2 weeks ago at Evans, With a good down filled bag and sleeping pad, and froze my a$$ off. And that was at a balmy 40 degrees. Lesson learned.
 
hards91xj said:
The wife and I have spent a few nights out in the snow with temps into the teens,never had a problem yet keeping warm and dry.
Click to expand...

Tents I persume?

When I tented out at Buck Creek(my first snow camping experience), I would have to say, we were poorly equiped. It got down to about 10*, maybe a touch warmer. We I was in a tent, no snow underneath. I had on cotton socks, wool socks, boots, long johns, sweats, carhartt pants, thermo hunting pants, long john shirt, sleeveless cotton shirt, long sleve flanel shirt, hooded pullover sweatshirt, thermo hunting coat, and a Carhartt beanie hat. I was dressed very warm, but when it came to sleeping, it was COLD. Where I failed, is the sleeping bag. Heavy, but not a lower degree rated one. I froze my ass off, waking up every half hour or so to try to get warm. I also didn't lay down another blanket or pad, or cover myself with another sleeping bag or blanket like my other 2 friends. Eventually, I climbed into the Jeep in the wee hours of the morning, now pussing out, turned it on, let it run for a half hour to warm it up. Stayed warm for about 2 hours, then needed to be turned on again. Falling asleep in the warmth, it ran for a few hours, until it got too warm, and it woke me. That was when I had full interior.

Lessons learned. I have a much warmer still borrowed, need to get back someday, sleeping bag(Phils :anon: ). Much more thought on warmness and comfort went into my next snow camping experience. Also, when camping in Cle Elum, we let the fire rage before sleep, with tents somewhat close, it did feel as the ambient air temp was higher than without it. Drinking hot chocolate before bed, instead of snow chilled beer, it felt like my body was warmer during the night. With adding a large tarp on top of the tent, less wind/air flows through(I think), keeps the tent dry, and helps keep some of the warmth inside the tent better. I think the tent I have is mostly a summer one, which doesn't help one bit. Staying warm and dry during the day, and throughout the evening, is a major plus to having a goods night sleep.

100_0515.jpg
 
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Another trick that has always worked great for me. And the ladies especially like this trick.


























Is to boil a pot of water before bed, then pour the boiling water into a NALGENE bottle. Wrap it in a coat (to prevent burns) and toss it in your sleeping bag. That is guaranteed to keep you warm for 8 or so hours. I love this trick, my wife has never been cold using this method. Even during hunting season in Walmart sleeping bags. And I didn't even have to cuddle ;)
 
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