Senate vote today?
- Thread starter jdxj
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Pz10420
NAXJA Forum User
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- Colorado Springs
I'm not speaking in terms of what a very old and outdated piece of paper states. Do I believe good law abiding citizens should have the right to bear arms? Absolutely. Do I feel that guns should be a little more difficult to obtain in this country? Also, yes. Most of the measures that our government are proposing are pretty pointless but this
world that we are currently living in is in bad need of some change. I feel that amendments to our constitution are absolutely necessary to try to keep our country heading in the right direction. Evolution is a real scientific fact and everything is this world needs to be able to evolve or we would be stuck in the Stone Age. Regardless of what someone may believe that their fake god has given them the right to.
This is why you are wrong. Nothing you say after making this statement holds any ground. Nothing.
/that arguement.
xj-grin
NAXJA Member #1096
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
I actually like that "old document" argument, and cool that someone is listening, Mike! 
The constitution is a seriously flawed document, though perhaps the best attempt at putting some limitations on the power of government to date -- you can still see by our current state that it hasn't been very effective at doing what it was supposedly designed to do. There are those that view the constitution as some sort of divinely inspired document -- if it is, that divinity ain't working very well -- its the best the founders could come up with, at best (I believe the Articles of Confederation were far superior, and far more effective at limiting the power of the federal government... of course that is exactly the reason Hamilton sought to replace them with the Constitution, to centralize more power...).
You have a right to bear arms that shall not be infringed, not because the constitution says so, but rather because you have inalienable rights as human beings to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By extension, you have the right to defend those inalienable rights -- you and yours -- from the aggression of others, and such right of self defense is currently most effectively exercised utilizing firearms. The constitution expressly calls out this right, it doesn't create it.
That said, the bill of rights are merely examples of rights that our government is supposed to defend, not infringe -- it is not a comprehensive list. I tend to believe that the right to move freely is likewise an inalienable right (otherwise you are a prisoner to some extent or another), and I therefore strongly disagree with the accepted legal approach that "driving is a privilege". Just as a firearm is the current most effective technology for my defense of myself and my property, a motor vehicle is the current most effective technology for my freedom of movement. :cheers:
The constitution is a seriously flawed document, though perhaps the best attempt at putting some limitations on the power of government to date -- you can still see by our current state that it hasn't been very effective at doing what it was supposedly designed to do. There are those that view the constitution as some sort of divinely inspired document -- if it is, that divinity ain't working very well -- its the best the founders could come up with, at best (I believe the Articles of Confederation were far superior, and far more effective at limiting the power of the federal government... of course that is exactly the reason Hamilton sought to replace them with the Constitution, to centralize more power...).You have a right to bear arms that shall not be infringed, not because the constitution says so, but rather because you have inalienable rights as human beings to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By extension, you have the right to defend those inalienable rights -- you and yours -- from the aggression of others, and such right of self defense is currently most effectively exercised utilizing firearms. The constitution expressly calls out this right, it doesn't create it.
That said, the bill of rights are merely examples of rights that our government is supposed to defend, not infringe -- it is not a comprehensive list. I tend to believe that the right to move freely is likewise an inalienable right (otherwise you are a prisoner to some extent or another), and I therefore strongly disagree with the accepted legal approach that "driving is a privilege". Just as a firearm is the current most effective technology for my defense of myself and my property, a motor vehicle is the current most effective technology for my freedom of movement. :cheers:
Pz10420
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
I apologize for having an opinion. I forgot that those who don't follow others opinions are WRONG. I'm sure that if ideals from 200 years ago were never challenged this country would be a much better place.
we are discussing new laws. Basis for laws is to uphold that old and outdated piece of paper. They are to be based and related to that paper.
So how do you have a conversation about validity of new laws while dismissing the foundation?
That's like talking about how a window fits but ignoring the wall it's mounted in.....
I am constantly wrong. Enjoy a new perspective proving me wrong and educating me more. But ya can't discuss physics while skipping basic algebra....
So how do you have a conversation about validity of new laws while dismissing the foundation?
That's like talking about how a window fits but ignoring the wall it's mounted in.....
I am constantly wrong. Enjoy a new perspective proving me wrong and educating me more. But ya can't discuss physics while skipping basic algebra....
xj-grin
NAXJA Member #1096
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
You're somewhat right, Mike -- the constitution is the current "top" law, and assuming anyone that took an oath to follow it actually did, I agree with you that we would be in large part much more prosperous, happy and free if we had the same skinny book of laws that we had 200 years ago... hell I'd be thrilled with 100 years ago. I can tear down the constitution while defending the principles it hoped to enshrine because those principles are based on natural law -- that freedom you have as a human being, equality under the law, life, liberty...
Keep in mind, I'm a lawyer who at heart is an anarchist -- not chaos anarchy, just literally "absence of government" anarchy -- my perspectives tend to be a touch extreme. I'm a big believer in spontaneous order, and that there is no way to limit government effectively, in that the power hungry that seek to govern always seek to expand that power, and to grant favors to those who keep them there. At best we end up with a swinging pendulum of intrusive government, followed by minor revolution, followed by a re-growth of government. Our pendulum in the US hasn't swung for some time now...
Keep in mind, I'm a lawyer who at heart is an anarchist -- not chaos anarchy, just literally "absence of government" anarchy -- my perspectives tend to be a touch extreme. I'm a big believer in spontaneous order, and that there is no way to limit government effectively, in that the power hungry that seek to govern always seek to expand that power, and to grant favors to those who keep them there. At best we end up with a swinging pendulum of intrusive government, followed by minor revolution, followed by a re-growth of government. Our pendulum in the US hasn't swung for some time now...
If there was less law and more self accountability and common sense like back then we would be better off.
There are inherent issues in anything a person or persons design. But jumping away from the central ideas and basics in order to "feel" good is just idiotic. Core beliefs and rights that go along with being human can't be left behind because they were written down on a centralized paper too long ago.
There are inherent issues in anything a person or persons design. But jumping away from the central ideas and basics in order to "feel" good is just idiotic. Core beliefs and rights that go along with being human can't be left behind because they were written down on a centralized paper too long ago.
WTF_LOL
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Lakewood, CO
This is my concern exactly. I think people forgot what it meant to American and things have gotten all out of whack. I think most of us agree things need to change and on what particular items need to change, but it seems that there are those that will throw laws at everything that should be fixed.
I am worried we will make a law to fix one thing, then we move to the next terrible thing to fix and throw more laws at that. Then we keep repeating the process until every aspect of life has its set of laws. Where does it end?
Do I think people should be allowed to commit mass murders and easy access to tools that aid in their dirty work? NO. Does it seem like a good idea to legally reduce the chances of some of these crimes happening. SURE...on the surface. But where does it end? This is the path that I hope to keep us from going down with all my might. Its not each of these bills in Senate right now, it is the path we need to avoid, IMO. Soon we will all be wiping are asses with 3 sea shells.
jdxj
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
If you dont believe in the Founding Principles and Documents that this Country was founded on thats Your right, Provided by those Documents and by all those that have fought and died to protect all you Uninformed Liberal Crazys,
If you dont Like American than just get the **** out and dont try and change it. Maybe one of the socialist countries in Europe would suit you better.HastaHastaHastaHastaHastaHastaHasta
Pz10420
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
Hahahahhahahhahha!!!!! I'm sure my cotton business would be much more successful if we still had slaves... I love my country and I love the fact that Since I don't think all its founding principle are perfect that I should be told to get the !!!! out. Nice family friendly forum we have here.
jdxj
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
:kissyou:
Pz10420
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
Sorry pal, I don't go that way...I'm pretty surprised your so comfortable coming out of the closet. Actually, I'm not that surprised.
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
Is there a reason why I have to lose freedoms to appease your sensibilities?
Why, when there is a place across the Atlantic that affords you exactly the political climate you desire, without punishing me.
NOOOOO you have to make this place the place of your dreams. Well guess what, my dreams of this country are of freedoms, freedoms we had prior to 1986 when I could have purchased a machine gun off the shelf. Why does your right to have the country you want outweigh my rights as already afforded to me?
I hate your kind. Self righteous know it all.
Why, when there is a place across the Atlantic that affords you exactly the political climate you desire, without punishing me.
NOOOOO you have to make this place the place of your dreams. Well guess what, my dreams of this country are of freedoms, freedoms we had prior to 1986 when I could have purchased a machine gun off the shelf. Why does your right to have the country you want outweigh my rights as already afforded to me?
I hate your kind. Self righteous know it all.
Pz10420
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
It's pretty amazing how quickly I became hated for merely stating that I don't think every crazy jerkoff in this country should have easy access to firearms. I don't want any of your freedoms taken away, I just would like to see a few less 5 year olds shot to death.
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
Would you please show us how every crazy jerkoff in this country has easy access to firearms. I didn't find my last purchase easy in the least.
Pz10420
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs
Everyone is gonna have their own interpretation of what easy is. But I don't think it was that difficult for James Holmes to amass quite an arsenal rather quickly with his mental record and murder a lot of people.
have you seen his mental record? I haven't. Think there is a reason? Think maybe he isn't clinically insane and just a sick person?
as far as the cbi was concerned he was fit to own.
so either he seemed legit
or cbi isn't doing their job.
quit standing up for the ****ing douche.
the kid that shot up new town was rejected gun purchase and he stole them from his mother he killed. The system worked perfectly. And yet a criminal did illegal things to gain the access. Good thing more laws would fix that huh?
think it through, not half assed.
as far as the cbi was concerned he was fit to own.
so either he seemed legit
or cbi isn't doing their job.
quit standing up for the ****ing douche.
the kid that shot up new town was rejected gun purchase and he stole them from his mother he killed. The system worked perfectly. And yet a criminal did illegal things to gain the access. Good thing more laws would fix that huh?
think it through, not half assed.
