School me on rock rings

B

blistovmhz

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Vancouver, BC
So it finally happened. Taco'd a wheel. Wasn't even spinning, nor moving. Just got a little bound up between a few rocks and stumps on "fuct" trail. Tried to back up, and WHOOSH!
Got caught up on a big root and I guess that tiny little bit of extra throttle I gave it, was just too much.
IMG_20150905_164017.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prp22iV5ey4

Hammered it back and filled it back up and drove out without a problem, but it occurs to me this is one of those "should'a done it BEFORE you needed it" situations.

So I've been looking around for some better wheels and doing some research. This is my DD so beadlocks are out of the question. I feel the addition of some rock rings to my current wheels would be by far the cheapest and quickest option, but will a rock ring really prevent this sorta bend? If so, how thick?

I've looked around but didn't find many options for wheels with bolt on, sacrificial rings. Interco's BirdDog looks well engineered, but the ring isn't replaceable, which to me seems a tad insane on a near $300 per corner wheel.

So, I'm hoping someone makes a decent wheel (in a 15x9 or so, 5x4.5" pattern) with a bolt on sacrificial rock ring. I know MT used to have one, but they were discontinued years ago. Should I just stick with my el-cheapo steelies that have NEVER let me down, and even after being folded, hammered right back into place and had no problem pushing me down the highway at 150km/h, and just weld on some 1/8 or 1/4" rings?

p.s. I have no idea how, but it just occurred to me that I've never had so much as a flat tire, let alone folded a wheel, so I've just never had any reason to even look into this stuff till now.
 
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Rock rings, at least the ones I've seen in use, aren't replaceable period. They are welded to the rim to provide strength to avoid just what happened to yours, or they form the outer portion of the beadlock system itself.

Now, several of the 'simulated beadlock' rims do have removeable rings, but from the reports I've read, they get beat up just as bad.

Pro Comp has some like you want, so does Method Wheels. May also want to look at
http://www.badwheelsinc.com/, as they sell exactly what you want for some of their rims.

The BAD wheels are even 50 state legal beadlocks per their website.
 
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I used to trash a rim every time out before I got my rock rings/stiffeners on. 3/16 thick and take abuse, also good to keep rocks away from the hubs. Even though I have drive flanges, if I has lockouts I would have surely destroyed one or two without rings in place.
 
Your options are really only weld on rock rings. And can be found from many companies
 
TRCM said:
Rock rings, at least the ones I've seen in use, aren't replaceable period. They are welded to the rim to provide strength to avoid just what happened to yours, or they form the outer portion of the beadlock system itself.

Now, several of the 'simulated beadlock' rims do have removeable rings, but from the reports I've read, they get beat up just as bad.

Pro Comp has some like you want, so does Method Wheels.
May also want to look at http://www.badwheelsinc.com/, as they sell exactly what you want for some of their rims.

The BAD wheels are even 50 state legal beadlocks per their website.
Click to expand...
 
highspeed said:
That was just shear bad luck.

What tire psi were you running when this happened?
Click to expand...

Bad luck and a touch of the dumb I think. I knew something wasn't quite right when I couldn't idle back up and didn't just start climbing. I know my rig pretty well and I know when it should be climbing. I should've got out and checked.
I don't know what pressure I run anymore. I just pull the core and stick it back in when the tire starts screaming at me. My gauge shows 0 until around 15psi, so... I'm guessing probably around 8psi.

This whole outing was hilarious. We (myself, gf, roomie and his gf) were originally supposed to meet up with some kids at the trail head at 0930, as they knew where the three trails we wanted to hit were at, but it was just too early for us to make it on time. We got out there around noon and spent a few hours hunting for the trails. Ended up finding one by accident and ran it without issue, then headed back down the FSR trying to find someone who could point us towards Fuct trail. Ran into a bunch of guys with buggies and stopped to ask directions. They were absolute vagina's about it, insisted there was no chance in hell my Jeep would make it through despite proving they didn't understand my setup (though I had d30 front and rear?), and refused to tell us where the trail was. I pointed out that there are hundreds of videos of vehicles smaller and less built than mine, with far less experienced drivers who manage to clear it, and guys just laughed again and told me I was making shit up, so we headed back up the road.
Eventually found the trail and decided to give it a walk through first. Ended up running into the kids we were supposed to meet up with 3/4 up the trail. They'd been on it since 1000 (it was now 1430 or so). Three Jeeps on 35's and 37's. Two had each busted a passenger front shaft and joint, and both had managed to wipe out the same caliper :). But, these guys were like, early 20's at best.
I wasn't sure I wanted to run it as my back and neck were on the mend and I really didn't want to be ****ing around fixing the Jeep half way up the trail.
Then some kid (probably 19) in a very cleanly (probably shop) built 4-runner came up the trail without a single **** given. Didn't even spin his wheels, thus confirming to me that the trail wasn't any more difficult than it looked. He made it up 3/4 the way and lost his front DS and needed tools to repair, so I figured I'd take a run up with my tools.
I made it all of 50 feet before wiping out my wheel.
Better though, is while I was hammering the wheel back together, guess who shows up... Buggie dinks. And he says "Oh hey, you look a lot like a guy I saw not too long ago" blah blah blah. Him and his butt-buddies were none too impressed and made a big show of turning around (even though we had people stationed at the trail head to let anyone know that there were 5 vehicles out of commission along the trail :)).

Either way, I'm pretty confident that I'd have cleared the trail pretty easily in about 5 or 10 minutes if I hadn't derped right off the bat. Just took a bad line and compounded it with laziness.

TRCM said:
Rock rings, at least the ones I've seen in use, aren't replaceable period. They are welded to the rim to provide strength to avoid just what happened to yours, or they form the outer portion of the beadlock system itself.

Now, several of the 'simulated beadlock' rims do have removeable rings, but from the reports I've read, they get beat up just as bad.

Pro Comp has some like you want, so does Method Wheels. May also want to look at
http://www.badwheelsinc.com/, as they sell exactly what you want for some of their rims.

The BAD wheels are even 50 state legal beadlocks per their website.
Click to expand...

Yea, that's the thing. Very few guys making replaceable rock rings, which seems insane to me. Yea a well built ring MAY have saved me here, but it also really may not have. Either way, my wheels have been getting pretty chewy this season as I spend more time in the rocks. Do guys just replace wheels every year? Why the hell aren't replaceable rings a bigger thing?

I almost like the BAD wheel except that it's 50 goddamn pounds by itself. That's adding almost 100lbs of extra rotating mass, and they only come in a 17" anyway. I need 15".

The BirdDog seems like a very nice wheel, but it's aluminium so if something does go wrong, it's not going to hammer right, and for a $300 wheel, the rings not being replaceable seems nuts. That said though, the only guy I know who runs them, swears by them. He's done "fuct" many times without issue. The BD's are v-shaped so there is almost no lip to fold over, and makes swapping the tire off the bead on the trail a cinch, which is a big selling point for me as I don't really want to carry a spare anymore. Being able to perform a proper patch job without requiring a machine, and not having to carry a full size spare is worth the $1000 to me. I just have no experience with aluminium wheels and I've never trusted them, but I have no actual reason to not trust them. - Thoughts on this?

There was a very nice wheel, I think by MT, with a 1/2" replaceable aluminium rock ring which seemed like the absolute bomb, but no longer in production and no one's selling off their old ones.



At any rate:
1. How much strength am I adding with a 3/16" ring?
2. Should I be ringing both sides of the wheel?
3. Are the cheap steelie Procomps worth the rings or should I be looking at a new set of wheels as well? (I have no idea how, but my wheels are still perfectly balanced even after that hammer job. Pulled a buck 50 on the freeway on the way home without so much as a shimmy.)

p.s. I cannot ****ing believe that my tires are still on. My roomies blow beads almost every trip, or punch a sidewall, or get trees/sand in the bead and we end up having to reset the bead on the trail on 3 tires at a time. I've NEVER had this problem once, and even after hammering that taco back into a pancake, the bead set on the first attempt and not a single leak anywhere despite all the wood. I don't know if the Procomp 51's are just insanely good wheels or I'm just insanely lucky. The only other tire problem I've ever had was a small burp once.
 
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Stazworks also has what they call a 'cold role' ring.....it's welded on, but it is basically 1/2" rebar formed in a circle that you weld on....greatly stiffens the lip so it won't bend.
 
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TRCM said:
Stazworks also has what they call a 'cold role' ring.....it's welded on, but it is basically 1/2" rebar formed in a circle that you weld on....greatly stiffens the lip so it won't bend.
Click to expand...

Rebar? Really? Sure it's not just solid bar?

FWIW, most rebar is "non weldable" shit steel
 
oooohhh rebar looks like a cheap, quick option that should be as strong and 100x uglier than a rock ring! Ugly and strong is what I'm going for. Looking into it. I figure my wheels are already destroyed so I'm not going to be too upset if whatever I weld on doesn't hold up.

I'd still rather spend way too much money on a set of wheels that does everything I want, but I don't think they exist yet. Split wheel, deep center, v-wall, short lip (low fulcrum for bead retention) and some bungs for replacable rock rings is what would be ideal. I can't believe it doesn't exist (yet).
 
Why don't you want to run beadlocks?
Or better yet Hutchinson's?
 
Rebar isn't shit steel but there are many varieties that can't be welded or special rod is required. They may be 1010 hot roll. It looks like rebar, with the silver colored thick scale.
 
Jbh97009 said:
Why don't you want to run beadlocks?
Or better yet Hutchinson's?
Click to expand...

I'm not personally against beadlocks, but cops hand out VI's like it's Christmas at a lot of the trail heads. They'll often give you one with no explanation whatsoever, but in most cases if you LOOK relatively legal, they'll leave you alone. Beadlocks are a big red flag. Automatic VI in almost all cases.

What are Hutchinsons? I looked them up but their website doesn't actually say anything about what they actually are. All I can see is that they're a DOT compliant two piece wheel, but no specifics about anything.

*edit* I found more data on them. They seem like a pretty standard beadlock, except that they're a two piece wheel, and a big plastic center piece to lock the inside bead as well. I'm not having a problem with losing a bead. My issue is tearing rims apart and I'm trying to find something that has replaceable rock rings that aren't purely cosmetic.

I don't mind spending $400 on a wheel, but for that price it'd better survive a nuke, and I don't see the hutches providing any more strength than a much cheaper steelie with some weld on rock rings. I WANT something with replaceable rock rings, but if nothing exists other than beadlocks, I'm money ahead with cheap, reinforced steelies yea?
 
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Yea, I get how they go together, I just don't see any information on the construction. ie: no cut-away views, doesn't have a rock ring or any reinforcement, so without seeing them in person, they're just a standard 2 piece beadlock. If they'd have held up to what I just did, great, but there's just no way to know without a bunch of guys with experience with them, or some proper diagrams and cutaway views.

This is why I'm so hot on the Birddog. They actually show you what you're buying. They just don't have a rock ring which sorta sketches me out when I'm spending $300/wheel. I don't mind if they're as tough as I've heard, but how many people taco a wheel without any speed, no wheel spin, and not falling on something? :)
 
Saw that. That's an exploded view, not a cut-away or cross section. I wanna see thickness. I sent them an email asking for either a cross section or diagrams.
 
foxwar71 said:
More times then I care to remember, no more issues with rings now. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245701948&postcount=594
Click to expand...

I've certainly bent a lot of wheels, but never folded one right over. Haven't found a lot of pictures of others doing this either. Small bends I understand and I know they'll always happen, but those are from big impacts. This was just me pushing the edge of the wheel right out :).

How thick are your rings and did you do both sides? DYI I've heard is 1/4" and they only ship 4 to a set, so I assume they figure 1/4 ring on the outside of the wheel is enough. Is it?
 
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