Saddam

[RTicUL8]

I'm not picking on you, but there's plenty of evidence to show that punishments are not a deterrent to crime. They are pretty much unrelated. Punishments are for the gratification of society/victims, they do nothing to deter the actual crimes they punish...

Beej, I know that this is you area of specialty, and you have a degree and all that, but...
THAT'S THE BIGGEST LOAD OF HORSE DOOKIE I'VE HEARD IN A LONG TIME! (Well, actually, not that long - I visit daily you know:laugh: )

I know that punishment does not CURE crime and behavior problems, but I feel that it can definetly be a DETERRENT. I'd steal a lot more than pens, notepads, and time(surfing naxja...etc) from my work if I wasn't concerned about the possible punishment from such actions.

 

[Beej]

Your point being ???? or are you one of those who think that victims have no right to some paybacks.... then tell me you feel the same way after you've had YOUR nuts roasted by a crank up telephone set... or your entire family wiped out... what amazes me is that he survived as long as he did both when he ran things and after he was caught in his rat hole. Me, I'd a cleared the rat hole with a grenade first...

They really should not have hung him like they did, trap doors and sudden stops at the bottom were too humane, they should have pulled him up by the rope so he coulda done a little dance...

Holy moly Rich, did I hit a nerve?

I was attempting to answer Brian's question about how much crime there would be if the punishment was immediate. I'm not for reduction in punishment at all. Punishment is about gratification of those who were wronged and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Its just a falsehood to think that punishments deter crimes from being prevented in the first place. As long as we recognize them for what they are, its not a problem...

 

[8Mud]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on many levels. The vast majority of the population, is fear motivated for the most part. Other than moments of extreme stress.
The problems with fear being a lasting deterent, start with the fringe elements. Pshycopaths, sociopaths, the seriously depressed, borderline camotose and others seriously mentally ill.
Fear is a great deterant (motivator) if you are a part of the middle majority.

 

[SKIM]

There is no way that a murderer that is about to kill someone is going to stop and think, "O i shouldnt do this because im going to get the death penalty."

 

[Cox89XJ]

There is no way that a murderer that is about to kill someone is going to stop and think, "O i shouldnt do this because im going to get the death penalty."

We will never know how many that have stopped and thought.

For the lesser crimes I would vote for the flogging. It worked on me when I was a kid. When I got whipped by a teacher at school I didn't run home and tell my parents either. First thing they would want to know is why? Then I would get another whipping.

 

[8Mud]

But do you think that before some one shoots or rapes some one they are thinking. O I better not do that I don't want to get the death penalty.

Reasonable people think of the consequences before doing something wrong, for the most part. Sometimes it doesn't kick in really strong, until maturity (different ages for different people). One of the defintions of immaturity is acting before thinking. Sometimes a moment of rage makes people do strange things, they wouldn't normally do and the consequences get burried in the hormone rush. Some people never mature, more than you'd think.
The fear of death, is one of those emmotions that resides in a basic part of the brain. Almost like a phobia, but much more universal.
Sociopaths are just so above it all, the normal rules don't apply to them (in there minds). They have very little empathy (if any) for there fellow man.
Psychpaths, like it so much, the rush is more than worth the consequences.
Schizophrenics may be so far out there, they don't even live in the same universe as normal people.
Whichever catagory a person fits into, can be a passing phase and/or there is a alot of overlap and grey areas.
It sure enough gets complicated. The part that upsets me, is you have two (or more) lawyers arguing it out. And the arguements are often so far removed from the truth, that justice becomes a matter of who has the best arguement.

 

[XJEEPER]

Direct hit, Mud. Attorneys, bleeding-heart judges and human rights activist groups have really diluted the penal system. Unfortunately in our society, you can buy an attorney that will net you a lesser sentence and continued appeals to delay justice.
Penalties rarely fit the crime and are all too often delayed to the point where the law-abiding taxpayers are burdened with supporting the life-long incarceration of capitol criminals that should be fertilizer. I would be willing to pay a higher tax rate if death row was annually purged.

A death penalty that was swiftly enforced may deter some from the crimes....or it may not. Society would benefit regardless.

I know....I sound like a law abiding citizen who expects folks to take responsibilty for their actions.........

 

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Attorneys, bleeding-heart judges and human rights activist groups have really diluted the penal system. Unfortunately in our society, you can buy an attorney that will net you a lesser sentence and continued appeals to delay justice.

Hahaha my Dad's an attorney. I don't know if he's heard about the hanging yet because he's out of town for a couple days but he will be absolutely thrilled when he does. It seems like you're right...all the liberal, human rights attorneys make it to important positions in our country when the small town conservative lawyers who would be a little more supportive of things like the death penalty stay back. Go figger.

 

[Lou]

It's absolutely beautiful -- how Saddam's actions were the result of bleed-heart liberals.

Lest we forget that he was anti human-rights, handed-out swift punishment, kept his country in line, kept Iran at bay, generally scared the shit out of the middle-east.....hey wait a minute, he actually sounds like he would make a good ally, that we should fund and support.

Oh...wait, he was an ally. What could have possibly gone wrong?

 

[red91]

It's absolutely beautiful -- how Saddam's actions were the result of bleed-heart liberals.

Lest we forget that he was anti human-rights, handed-out swift punishment, kept his country in line, kept Iran at bay, generally scared the shit out of the middle-east.....hey wait a minute, he actually sounds like he would make a good ally, that we should fund and support.

Oh...wait, he was an ally. What could have possibly gone wrong?

Like you don't know...we take a despot idiot tyrant, build him up into a killing machine inside his own country, so that we can go in and knock him down...


Who's next ?!!?




No really...it's what we do best...now if we could only find Osama you could ask him too...well maybe not.

 

[XJEEPER]

It's absolutely beautiful -- how Saddam's actions were the result of bleed-heart liberals.

Lest we forget that he was anti human-rights, handed-out swift punishment, kept his country in line, kept Iran at bay, generally scared the shit out of the middle-east.....hey wait a minute, he actually sounds like he would make a good ally, that we should fund and support.

Oh...wait, he was an ally. What could have possibly gone wrong?

You left out the fact that he was a sociopathic dicatator.... also the fact that the bleeding-heart libs kept the US Military from cooking Bagdad and Saddam during Desert Storm.

 

[Powerman]

You left out the fact that he was a sociopathic dicatator.... also the fact that the bleeding-heart libs kept the US Military from cooking Bagdad and Saddam during Desert Storm.

Excuse me! The leftist extremist are idiots, all "extremists" are, but are you on crack? The only way that Bush SR. did such a good job durring Desert Storm was because he was only liberating Kuwait, not taking out Saddam. The Middle East would of had a cow at that time if we went in to conquer Iraq. So nobody was upset, Bush got the rest of the World and the US public behind it, and he managed to keep the Arab and Jews from going at it when Saddam chucked some scuds at them.

So Bush did exactly what he promised, liberated Kuwait, period. But now somehow that is the Liberal's fault too??? Ya it's all a leftist liberal conspiracy. Give me a break.

 

[XJEEPER]

Excuse me! The leftist extremist are idiots, all "extremists" are, but are you on crack? The only way that Bush SR. did such a good job durring Desert Storm was because he was only liberating Kuwait, not taking out Saddam. The Middle East would of had a cow at that time if we went in to conquer Iraq. So nobody was upset, Bush got the rest of the World and the US public behind it, and he managed to keep the Arab and Jews from going at it when Saddam chucked some scuds at them.

So Bush did exactly what he promised, liberated Kuwait, period. But now somehow that is the Liberal's fault too??? Ya it's all a leftist liberal conspiracy. Give me a break.

Like the cow that's being had now? Folks want war to be easy, uncomplicated and without causualites.......fair and balanced for both sides. Sounds like a liberal view to me.

Who's backing the current plans to cut and run?

I'm still trying to figure out which of our elected officials are Americans?

Too many are willing to back-slide out of Iraq, sympathize with the terroists (they wouldn't be blowing us up if we weren't there, right?) and get back to focusing on their own personal political agendas.

 

[Powerman]

Like the cow that's being had now? Folks want war to be easy, uncomplicated and without causualites.......fair and balanced for both sides. Sounds like a liberal view to me.

So if fair and balanced for all involved is a liberal view, then what is your's, kill everybody?

Seriously, I know what you mean, but there is no black and white. Nobody gives a crap about the pile of rocks called the Middle East. What we do care about is the oil underneath the rocks. If the oil was not there, we would be perfectly content to sit back and watch them kill themselves, just like we do with Africa.

You could argue that the oil is critical to our national security. You could say they are a enemy of the state. Why are we such panssies? Let's just conquer the Middle East and take the oil. Oh ya, we are too liberal. We are too concerned with making it work out for everyone.

As long as we are dependent on foriegn oil we will have to deal with the people that own it. All those idiots over there would be nothing but goat herders if it wasn't for oil and our need for it. The fact that we are dealing with them isn't because we are too liberal. In fact, if it was up to the liberal extremists, we wouldn't be driving anything but bicycles and wouldn't be dealing with this.

It's just the nature of the beast, it will never change until the oil is gone. If we would have started working on energy independence 30 years ago, maybe things would be different today. Oh ya, that's too hard for the greatest nation on the planet. Liberals have some pretty wacky views, but you can't blame everything on them. Who has been running this country for the last 20 out of 28 years?

 

[G.Q. Jeeper]

As long as we are dependent on foriegn oil we will have to deal with the people that own it.

Actually funny enough, 80% of the oil that the US imports into its country is from Canada!

In Alberta/Saskachewan/NWT there has been a tremendous amount of oil sands discovery and natural gas. Its become such a hugh boom in the last 5 years that there is a 500,000 job deficit in Alberta alone, even the local Wal-Mart has trouble finding help - even at offering workers $20/hr.

But thats our little secret nobody knows, Canada is going to become the world's largest producer of energy in the next 10 years, but hang on wait until China comes on line with the consumption part!

Jeff

 

[ECKSJAY]

Actually funny enough, 80% of the oil that the US imports into its country is from Canada!

What's your source on that?

but hang on wait until China comes on line with the consumption part!

It'll be easier to get it from Siberia for them. Just run more pipelines...

 

[G.Q. Jeeper]

Here you go:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html

We are not your largest trading partner for nothing! At 1 billion dollars worth of trade going over the boarders everday, its really big business!

Not to mention our actors that we produce too! ahahah its all good!

Jeff

 

[casm]

Not to mention our actors that we produce too! ahahah its all good!

Yes, but we still haven't forgiven you for Celine Dion

American Coast Guard: Back off Canadians, we've got them.
Canadian Coast Guard: You back off hosers, they're in Canadian waters, eh.
American Coast Guard: Beat it, you puck-smacking maple suckers!
Canadian Coast Guard: Take a hike, you Shatner-stealing Mexico-touchers!

Cool licence plate, btw. Saw a car with the Nunavut version driving around here a while back - from the Arctic to the desert; that's gotta be some culture shock right there

 

[G.Q. Jeeper]

Nunavut use to be apart of the Northwest Territories until they split and became their own Territory (like a new state sort of) there is a big controversy about the polar bear plate, they want to keep it, and wanted us to get our own, but it does not work like that, once you leave the mothership, your on your own, licence plate and all! (what a stupied thing to fight over) I guess when you live in a Igloo there is not much else to bitch about LOL

okay okay you got us on the Celine Dion thing, we give up and we are sorry ;p

Jeff