Rant: Real Estate in Western WA

[fubar XJ]

If you can't swing it, then you either continue renting or drop your standards and buy a condo. Many people, first-time home buyers in particular, are doing this. Condos on average are $100K+ cheaper than houses in many areas. You can even get an enclosed garage in most of them, but it's akin to apartment living. The best compromise IMO would be a townhouse, basically like a complex of duplexes. You only have one shared wall, have a small yard out back, usually a 2 car garage.

 

[5-90]

If you can't swing it, then you either continue renting or drop your standards and buy a condo. Many people, first-time home buyers in particular, are doing this. Condos on average are $100K+ cheaper than houses in many areas. You can even get an enclosed garage in most of them, but it's akin to apartment living. The best compromise IMO would be a townhouse, basically like a complex of duplexes. You only have one shared wall, have a small yard out back, usually a 2 car garage.

I've lived in a townhouse. I flatly refuse to live in a condo - you pay an exorbitant amount of money to own what is essentially an apartment, and then pay an extra, never-ending monthly fee to give someone else the privilege of telling you what to do. I flatly refuse to live in a planned community as well - same reason. HOAs are right out, and should be flatly illegal. I am perfectly capable of maintaining my house and grounds, but I'd like to allow some individuality, because I'm tired of seeing the "everyone looks alike" thing. If I wanted that, I'd still be in the Air Force, and still living in Base Housing.

However, how'd this turn into a personal inability to purchase property? My original question was why did property values skyrocket ahead of inflation and COLA to salaries? Again, the property didn't intrinsically increase in value, and we didn't have that great a population explosion. If this is simply due to "the going trend," it's small wonder I'm no slave to fashion (of whatever sort.)

I'd like to unass CA, but we're still stuck here for the moment. As long as my MIL is still kicking (barely) and no-one in her family will deign to help, we have to bear all the incidental costs and the basic costs of the mechanics of keeping her alive (especially the three dollars per gallon for all the doctor's appointments, pharmacy runs, assorted medical tests, ...) I've been out here for 17-1/2 years now, and I don't like it. My wife grew up out here - and she can't stand it anymore. And, neither one of us wants to "take California with us" - we're leaving it, and we plan to leave it behind (too many people are tying to "take California with them" - one wonders why they left in the first place?)

Make more money? I'm trying - that's what WiP is all about. If I didn't keep getting clobbered with incidentals, I'd get going faster. I'm also trying to get another disability claim pushed through from a roads incident in 2005 - because I've yet to find a job that will take working hours of "whenever you can make it in," and I can't get up in the morning anymore (if I have to shake out before 1000 two days in a row, I'm useless for the entire third day. My sleep hours are both strange and irregular, due to brain trauma. Don't even get me started on weather changes...) That's why I'm trying to write books - because that's a job I can do "if and when" for myself. If I weren't constantly distracted by the mechanics of keeping a chronically ill elderly person alive, I'd probably make more progress.

We've not been able to save up a down payment - so we'd get murdered with a mortgage payment.

Smaller house? As long as my MIL is still with us, we need enough room for her and all her crap - and simply having "room" isn't enough. I also have to make sure that, should we need to call the fire department or an ambulance (again!) that they can get a gurney to wherever she is likely to be - so that's also limiting (since floor plans also have to be strongly considered.) Even if we don't need EMT's, I have to make sure there's enough space around her so I can pick her up if she should fall (again.)

Farther out of town? I already run her enough for all the medical crap - and she's finally got doctors she likes. She won't let me transfer her again - so we have to stay close to them (pulmonologist, gastroenterologist, orthopaedist, cardiologist, urologist, audiologist, ...) At $3+ per gallon - it becomes a very close offset. Move out of town to save rent, and it gets taken up in fuel. Move in town to save fuel, and it gets taken up in rent. I've checked - we can't win this one.

Reduce expenses? We've already cut what we can, when we can, and deduct as much as we can at the end of the year (you should see our tax return!)

Anyhow, my original question still stands. You're dodging the issue - why did "property values" (a fiction that binds as reality) go up so damn much?

 

[2xtreme]

I've lived in a townhouse. I flatly refuse to live in a condo - you pay an exorbitant amount of money to own what is essentially an apartment, and then pay an extra, never-ending monthly fee to give someone else the privilege of telling you what to do. I flatly refuse to live in a planned community as well - same reason. HOAs are right out, and should be flatly illegal. I am perfectly capable of maintaining my house and grounds, but I'd like to allow some individuality, because I'm tired of seeing the "everyone looks alike" thing. If I wanted that, I'd still be in the Air Force, and still living in Base Housing.

However, how'd this turn into a personal inability to purchase property? My original question was why did property values skyrocket ahead of inflation and COLA to salaries? Again, the property didn't intrinsically increase in value, and we didn't have that great a population explosion. If this is simply due to "the going trend," it's small wonder I'm no slave to fashion (of whatever sort.)

I'd like to unass CA, but we're still stuck here for the moment. As long as my MIL is still kicking (barely) and no-one in her family will deign to help, we have to bear all the incidental costs and the basic costs of the mechanics of keeping her alive (especially the three dollars per gallon for all the doctor's appointments, pharmacy runs, assorted medical tests, ...) I've been out here for 17-1/2 years now, and I don't like it. My wife grew up out here - and she can't stand it anymore. And, neither one of us wants to "take California with us" - we're leaving it, and we plan to leave it behind (too many people are tying to "take California with them" - one wonders why they left in the first place?)

Make more money? I'm trying - that's what WiP is all about. If I didn't keep getting clobbered with incidentals, I'd get going faster. I'm also trying to get another disability claim pushed through from a roads incident in 2005 - because I've yet to find a job that will take working hours of "whenever you can make it in," and I can't get up in the morning anymore (if I have to shake out before 1000 two days in a row, I'm useless for the entire third day. My sleep hours are both strange and irregular, due to brain trauma. Don't even get me started on weather changes...) That's why I'm trying to write books - because that's a job I can do "if and when" for myself. If I weren't constantly distracted by the mechanics of keeping a chronically ill elderly person alive, I'd probably make more progress.

We've not been able to save up a down payment - so we'd get murdered with a mortgage payment.

Smaller house? As long as my MIL is still with us, we need enough room for her and all her crap - and simply having "room" isn't enough. I also have to make sure that, should we need to call the fire department or an ambulance (again!) that they can get a gurney to wherever she is likely to be - so that's also limiting (since floor plans also have to be strongly considered.) Even if we don't need EMT's, I have to make sure there's enough space around her so I can pick her up if she should fall (again.)

Farther out of town? I already run her enough for all the medical crap - and she's finally got doctors she likes. She won't let me transfer her again - so we have to stay close to them (pulmonologist, gastroenterologist, orthopaedist, cardiologist, urologist, audiologist, ...) At $3+ per gallon - it becomes a very close offset. Move out of town to save rent, and it gets taken up in fuel. Move in town to save fuel, and it gets taken up in rent. I've checked - we can't win this one.

Reduce expenses? We've already cut what we can, when we can, and deduct as much as we can at the end of the year (you should see our tax return!)

Anyhow, my original question still stands. You're dodging the issue - why did "property values" (a fiction that binds as reality) go up so damn much?

Let me first say that I have ALWAYS enjoyed reading your posts!! I can't speak for your situation because I am not living it, but I wish you the best in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!! From what little I know of you on line you are a wonderful person!!

Back to point.
why did "property values" (a fiction that binds as reality) go up so damn much?

The answer is really very easy. Because people are willing to pay the higher prices.

The more complicated answer I suspect you are looking for is much more complicated and arguable. Again, it comes down to supply and demand and the fact that people want to live in that area, community, state, city for any number of reasons such as jobs, wages, health care, school districts, weather, etc, etc, etc. As a side note, years ago here if Boeing layed off, our house values went down. When they were hiring they went up. It isn't quite so simple today because there are many more large companies and people here, but the same premise applies.

In your case, it is probably WAY too difficult to move at the moment given your situation. That is a decision you are making. When your MIL is no longer with you, it sounds like you will re-visit that decision and it may change due to the "situation" changing.

Michael

 

[Metal Thrasher]

e. And, neither one of us wants to "take California with us" - we're leaving it, and we plan to leave it behind (too many people are tying to "take California with them" - one wonders why they left in the first place?)
?

I was born and raised in Cali --- And moved to the NW where I found I actually belong.

Recently a coworker moved up to the Seattle area from the Bay Area. He sold his 900 Sq. Ft. house on a small lot for over $500,000 and bought a 2500 sq ft house on a large lot with a view North of Seattle. I told him he paid too much for the house up here and he was stunned. He had simply paid the asking price and moved in. This has happened to Northern Cali as well. In Redding the people from the Bay area or So Cal would move up and simply pay the asking price for a listed house. They did this because the market they were leaving was over valued and they were getting a great deal compared to whatthey were leaving. Why ask questions when the deal is so sweet. As the Realtors in the Redding area watched house after house sell at full asking price with no dickering they realized they could raise the asking prices and make more money.... A trend is created. Same thing happened in the Seattle area throughout the 90's.

They are closing schools in the City of Seattle. Because there are no longer enough kids living there to justify the buildings. The suburbs can't build schools fast enough because all the families with kids have moved out so that they could afford to live.

 

[Kolbengas]

I don't know what everyone does here for a living. I just have to know, has everyone in WW become a banker/stock broker/lawyer? Is everyone in the import/export of drugs? WTF do people do to afford $4-900,000 houses?!?!

I was yelling about that not to long ago (and still am when ever I buy diapers)...have you tried looking in Kitsap County?
My husband and I just found a decent little starter place outside of Bremerton for $115,000. It needs some work and is just on a 1/3 of an acre, but the selling point was the garage...28'x30'
We only bring in around $38k a year as a welder, so for a while its going to be lots of pasta and pb&js, but this is our start. We did find several places that would work for us once we realized that was going to be a temporary place and not were we are going to spend our retirement years.
Best of luck to you :wave:

 

[mud1059]

You hit the nail on the head there. Somewhere, people were getting paid way too much money and the effects have seemingly trickled up here.

Hope all works out for you 5-90. Like Michael said, your posts are extremely informative and I enjoy reading them.

 

[mud1059]

I was yelling about that not to long ago (and still am when ever I buy diapers)...have you tried looking in Kitsap County?
My husband and I just found a decent little starter place outside of Bremerton for $115,000. It needs some work and is just on a 1/3 of an acre, but the selling point was the garage...28'x30'

I'm trying to avoid the Narrows. There's lots in Gig Harbor and Lakebay, though.
Was the lendor willing to lend when a home is in disrepair? From what we've heard as 1st time buyers, they pretty much want the home immaculate. Am I being fed a line?

 

[2xtreme]

Was the lendor willing to lend when a home is in disrepair? From what we've heard as 1st time buyers, they pretty much want the home immaculate. Am I being fed a line?

In my experience all lenders are different.
Some will and some won't do modulars or trailers.
As long as the appraised value is in line with the financing you shouldn't have too much difficulty find a lender.

As a side note, I have had VERY good experience with Lending Tree. I have used them at least a 1/2 dozen times through Costco and I couldn't be happier with the experiences each and every time.

Michael

 

[5-90]

Let me first say that I have ALWAYS enjoyed reading your posts!! I can't speak for your situation because I am not living it, but I wish you the best in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!! From what little I know of you on line you are a wonderful person!!

Back to point.
why did "property values" (a fiction that binds as reality) go up so damn much?

The answer is really very easy. Because people are willing to pay the higher prices.

The more complicated answer I suspect you are looking for is much more complicated and arguable. Again, it comes down to supply and demand and the fact that people want to live in that area, community, state, city for any number of reasons such as jobs, wages, health care, school districts, weather, etc, etc, etc. As a side note, years ago here if Boeing layed off, our house values went down. When they were hiring they went up. It isn't quite so simple today because there are many more large companies and people here, but the same premise applies.

In your case, it is probably WAY too difficult to move at the moment given your situation. That is a decision you are making. When your MIL is no longer with you, it sounds like you will re-visit that decision and it may change due to the "situation" changing.

Michael

It's not a decision "we" made - it was thrust upon us.

Once we're sorted with her (one way or the other,) it won't be long before we're out of this rotten, benighted state. Frankly, I've had it. I've had it with the ridiculous cost of living, I've had it with the Yuppified people, and I just don't want to deal with it anymore..

 

[redsand187]

Where exactly is Selah? Im really not looking forward to having to buy a house in the next 5-10 years.

-Alex

Just north of Yakima. It's somewhat a suburb of Yakima... lol. Just a small community, of less then 10,000 people. It's pretty much were a lot of the middle and mid-upper class families that live that work in yakima. A lot less crime then yakima, and West Valley. (which is just western yakima, and were a good portion of upper class homes are located, but the crime rate is higher as well)

Property is pretty cheap out here, for what it sounds like you are looking for at least... One of my good friends just bought 128 acres for 290,000. That is out in the Wenas valley, which is just north of Selah, part of the Selah school district. There are many homes sitting on a 2 or more acres and are still less then 20-30 minutes from just about everything Yakima has to offer.

 

[XJCasper]

Just north of Yakima. It's somewhat a suburb of Yakima... lol. Just a small community, of less then 10,000 people. It's pretty much were a lot of the middle and mid-upper class families that live that work in yakima. A lot less crime then yakima, and West Valley. (which is just western yakima, and were a good portion of upper class homes are located, but the crime rate is higher as well)

Property is pretty cheap out here, for what it sounds like you are looking for at least... One of my good friends just bought 128 acres for 290,000. That is out in the Wenas valley, which is just north of Selah, part of the Selah school district. There are many homes sitting on a 2 or more acres and are still less then 20-30 minutes from just about everything Yakima has to offer.

Got any Casinos within a 40 minute drive?

 

[justjim]

You're dodging the issue - why did "property values" (a fiction that binds as reality) go up so damn much?

The answer to that question is, after the .com bubble burst people lost money in the stock market, there was a slight raise but 9/11 happened and the stocks took a hit again. Real estate has always ben seen as a safe bet. Buy a home, in 10 years it's worth more than you paid. Lending practices have changed in the past few years, i.e 50 year mortgages, sub-prime lenders, and so on. You should start seeing a change but it'll take a while for it to hit up here. There are still good jobs here and people haven't started loosing their butts on their loans yet. It's simple supply and demand. As long as people are willing to pay more for a piece of property he owners will ask for it. I bought my home in 2001, I can't afford to pay what the market say's it's worth. Now people that have money invest it in real estate because in the past 100 years real estate hasn't taken the same hits that the stock market has.

Jim

 

[mud1059]

huh? Lenders HAVE been loosing their butts. Hence all the foreclosures. The house I'm looking at now was listed at 425k and is now asking 325. Bank owned. They're taking losses left and right right now. Not to mention all the developers that can't sell homes they've built.

Also, wall street has been buying loans in bulk from banks and lenders for more than 50 years. They've put a huge halt on bulk purchases due to the losses they've been getting. Thus causing the banks to have less money to loan out every month. (I just got off the phone with a talkative lender not 5 minutes ago)

I'm not that saavy, I promise you!

 

[2xtreme]

huh? Lenders HAVE been loosing their butts. Hence all the foreclosures. The house I'm looking at now was listed at 425k and is now asking 325. Bank owned. They're taking losses left and right right now. Not to mention all the developers that can't sell homes they've built.

Also, wall street has been buying loans in bulk from banks and lenders for more than 50 years. They've put a huge halt on bulk purchases due to the losses they've been getting. Thus causing the banks to have less money to loan out every month. (I just got off the phone with a talkative lender not 5 minutes ago)

I'm not that saavy, I promise you!

The next couple/few years will be slow due to exactly what you just expressed, and this is the PERFECT time to be looking for deals like you are talking about, because history will tell you that in 10 years, you will have bought well and will be sitting on a VERY nice investment!!

Michael

 

[mud1059]

The next couple/few years will be slow due to exactly what you just expressed, and this is the PERFECT time to be looking for deals like you are talking about, because history will tell you that in 10 years, you will have bought well and will be sitting on a VERY nice investment!!

Michael

It's very borderline in our pricerange right now....and it needs "a little" work. Concrete slab in the carports, flooring (the carpets are aging), and some paint. Very minor considering. I'll probably offer $280 just to see if the bank will bite. Luckily, it's a non-emotional sale. We'll see if that helps

 

[redsand187]

Got any Casinos within a 40 minute drive?

You're kidding right??? There are like 20 casinos within a 40 minute drive... the biggest being Legends on the Yakima Rez. Casinos are legal here, just no slots, you have to be on the rez for that. They don't call it Yakivegas for nothing.

 

[2xtreme]

It's very borderline in our pricerange right now....and it needs "a little" work. Concrete slab in the carports, flooring (the carpets are aging), and some paint. Very minor considering. I'll probably offer $280 just to see if the bank will bite. Luckily, it's a non-emotional sale. We'll see if that helps

That is the kind of place you should be looking for. Bring in a low offer and see if it makes it through.
You would be surprised how long you can make the carpet last if you have them professionally cleaned before you move in, then replace them over a period of time or replace with wood/laminate flooring (Assuming you don't have toddlers still on the floors .

Concrete could be poored when you have a few extra dollars and have a few friends over for a day to lend a hand.

This is the perfect type of starter home.
Michael

 

[XJCasper]

You're kidding right??? There are like 20 casinos within a 40 minute drive... the biggest being Legends on the Yakima Rez. Casinos are legal here, just no slots, you have to be on the rez for that. They don't call it Yakivegas for nothing.

Not overly familiar with the area. As soon as everything relaxes around our house, we are looking for a new property. Sounds like I will add Yakima to the areas we are researching.

Thanks
Jason

 

[mud1059]

Step 2: What the hell am I thinking?! I'm now terrified! We made an offer on Thrs expecting to hear back next week or the week after. NO, they came back today and accepted. I have buyers remorse and I haven't even bought the place yet. Not too shabby for 290k, no?

http://www.skylineproperties.com/pr...39&PHPSESSID=33b7556c490e6b0f2d5fdd5534427c69

Edit: I walked the lot on Wednesday and there's a nice little mud pit way in the back there.

 

[GlueNTape]

Wow, they really cleaned that place up. All the blood stains are gone.. the cult symbols have all been taken down. They even filled in the mass grave and planted grass.

Great Deal :looney: