question about motor swaps and stayin CA legal

tribal_4x4

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Roseville
In the near future I plan on swapping the mercedes OM617 Turbo Diesel in my 99 cherokee and I wanted to know how this would effect ca smog laws? I know you can't swap a motor that is older than the year of your vehicle. Or is that even true? Is it different when swapping a diesel? How would I go about making the jeep ca legal and not having to smog it? Any information would be much appreciated that you.
 
I dont think thats legal, starting Jan of this year all diesel trucks gvw 14,000 lbs and less now have to be smogged 98 and newer. That goes for F250's, Duramax's and Dodge pick ups. As for cars I'm not sure how smog laws apply when they are diesel but as for motor swaps I understand it has to be same manufacturer of the same year or newer and all the smog equipment has to work. So egr and any other emission stuff has to be functional. Another few examples are I have high flow cats on my Mustang that used to be legal and the same set up I have is no longer legal for sale here as of last year. Also as of 2011 you can no longer reflash your ECM so when they scan your computer for smog check if the last tool in the ECM's memory wasnt factory then your car fails smog. Not sure if that applys only to 2011 newer cars or to all cars as of 2011. They are also going to stop dynoing newer cars, its just visual, no check engine light and then check for reflash and your good to go. I know alot of this doesnt directly answer your question but I have been an auto tech for a long time and I know which way the industry and smog laws are heading. I am not a smog tech so I dont know all the ins and outs of every law but all I can say is tred lightly and do lots of reasearch because I'd hate for you to buy a whole bunch of stuff and get burned on not having it pass smog. Your best bet is to find a local smog ref and see what they say. Or move out of state?
 
ok thank you very much for the info. a buddy a mine is going to the dmv to register his new truck so i think im gonna go with him and see if i can ask someone there. CA smog laws are the biggest joke i really am tempted to move out of here.
 
ok thank you very much for the info. a buddy a mine is going to the dmv to register his new truck so i think im gonna go with him and see if i can ask someone there. CA smog laws are the biggest joke i really am tempted to move out of here.


Call your local Smog referee station and talk to one of those guys about it. There are many laws, but in the past this has been allowed and it will preclude your vehicle from being smogged, but only once inspected and certified at a referee station. Seems like a lot of work to just keep from going to a smog check station every 2 years. :dunno: 5 trips to the smog check station over 10 years will be cheaper and take less time than an engine swap.

If you are going to move out of CA just because of the vehicle smog issue, then I doubt you lived here in the 70's and 80's. The air in this state is much cleaner now, largely due to these "joke" smog laws you speak of. Personally, I take offense to someone who knowingly drives around a poorly running vehicle just because they are too cheap/lazy to fix it. The smog laws keep these vehicles off the road for everyone's sake.
 
The new engine has to be from the same type of vehicle, like another truck or suv, and it has to be from a newer vehicle then the jeep you are putting it in. It does not need to be the same manufacturer though, but either was that is two strikes against you already. A smog referee will look at those things before they ok your swap.

edit- you can try re-registering it in a county that only a change of ownership smog county.
 
Actually the smog machines can't tell what program you have in your ecu. They can only read cel. codes. I have a custom tune in my stang and usually reflash the computer a week before smog just to restore the tune.

And Bryon C. about the smog laws, my stang with my illegal short tube headers and custom, non carb approved intake piping actually puts out lower smog numbers then it does with the legal ones I have on there now. It wasn't much cleaner but it was a little bit. California requiring aftermarket parts manufactures to submit parts and money for testing is nothing short of extortion. I don't approve of removing cats or anything like that but I do believe that the only thing that should matter is what comes out the tailpipe.

I don't know jack about Jeeps (just got my first) but I do have experience smogging a modified vechicle in CA.

Hello NAXJA forum :cheers: post one complete.
 
Actually we (meaning auto techs, Im a tech) can see what flashed the ECU and it will matter on 2011 and newer cars BUT as for emissions I agree 100% its what comes out of the tail pipe that matters not what parts you have on. All I know is CA is coming down hard on vehicles and emissions. Which is hard because like I said I want clean air but I also believe in the right to tune and mod my car. Its just hard to draw the lines for whats ok and whats not but as for tail pipe emissions they should just stick to that standard and leave it up the people to have their car pass smog and just require cats. As for new cars though, they are so freaking clean. Its amazing, you can buy a 400 hp car that gets upwards of 28 mpg on the highway and pretty much puts out zero emissions. Like the new vette, clearly its still technically not as clean as lets say a Honda, Toyota or any other small engine vehicle thats built for economy and not power. But hell take just about any car, truck or suv and you could run it in a garage for quite some time and be fine. They aren't cars of yesteryear where you'll be sick and passing out in a matter of minutes. Obviously no matter how low the emissions are its still deadly but in a some what sarcastic way they are almost that clean. Hell my 66' GT the first thing I do is fire it up and move it out of the garage. Newer cars are by far much cleaner then even 10 or 15 years ago.
 
Actually the smog machines can't tell what program you have in your ecu. They can only read cel. codes. I have a custom tune in my stang and usually reflash the computer a week before smog just to restore the tune.

And Bryon C. about the smog laws, my stang with my illegal short tube headers and custom, non carb approved intake piping actually puts out lower smog numbers then it does with the legal ones I have on there now. It wasn't much cleaner but it was a little bit. California requiring aftermarket parts manufactures to submit parts and money for testing is nothing short of extortion. I don't approve of removing cats or anything like that but I do believe that the only thing that should matter is what comes out the tailpipe.

I don't know jack about Jeeps (just got my first) but I do have experience smogging a modified vechicle in CA.

Hello NAXJA forum :cheers: post one complete.


I agree that the California Air Resources Board is overboard on many of their regulations. However it is difficult to argue the results of the program. Smog laws are a necessary evil given the average person's desire to not spend money unless they are forced to.
 
Its so lame cause if you move out of Cali, AZ, NV, OR you can do whatever you want. If wasn't for that Goat XXXX of a mess in LA we wouldn't have these issues.
 
Its so lame cause if you move out of Cali, AZ, NV, OR you can do whatever you want. If wasn't for that Goat XXXX of a mess in LA we wouldn't have these issues.


Yeah, we should all move to Virginia. That way we can't even put lift kits on our vehicles. :rolleyes:

Diesels? Yeah there are hardly any diesels on the road here so we should just ignore them. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should have left lead in the gas too? :doh:

Check the population of this state, and then consider how many vehicles are on the road. Its not just LA, you can include the entire bay area, the greater Sacramento area, and all those damned central valley commuters who clog up the freeway everyday right by my house.

Something had to be done or we would all be choking on our own exhaust fumes. California regulations drive the automakers to make cleaner, more efficient cars. These standards trickle down to the rest of the country, helping them out too.

Like it or not, we are all stuck dealing with it as long as we live here.
 
How about we all just get rid of our Jeeps and buy mountain bikes and ride those around? Less pollution and we could change NAXJA to NAMBLA, North American Mountain Bikers Love Association...Oh wait...I think NAMBLA means something else...DANG IT!
 
Call your local Smog referee station and talk to one of those guys about it. There are many laws, but in the past this has been allowed and it will preclude your vehicle from being smogged, but only once inspected and certified at a referee station. Seems like a lot of work to just keep from going to a smog check station every 2 years. :dunno: 5 trips to the smog check station over 10 years will be cheaper and take less time than an engine swap.

If you are going to move out of CA just because of the vehicle smog issue, then I doubt you lived here in the 70's and 80's. The air in this state is much cleaner now, largely due to these "joke" smog laws you speak of. Personally, I take offense to someone who knowingly drives around a poorly running vehicle just because they are too cheap/lazy to fix it. The smog laws keep these vehicles off the road for everyone's sake.

Bryan -
You and I have probably discussed this before, but I have no trouble with the Smog Check programme in principle.

The execution, however, blows. Why?

1) It amounts to little more than a surtax on vehicle registration - since it's made a mandatory part of the process. Much of the surtax goes to a shop, with a part going to the State - but that makes it no less a tax.

2) They can profile you as a "gross polluter" for no good reason, and send you to a "Gold Shield" or a "Test Only" station at a whim (I'm reasonably sure the Gold Shield test costs more than the regular test. I know the Test Only test costs more than the regular test - last time I had to get one of those, it was ninety dollars. Registration was about fifty.)

3) The tailend of (2) - on older vehicles (which are easier to modify to run more cleanly,) you're not allowed to modify the system to effect a beneficial change, and the smog check costs more than the registration renewal!

4) The visual test is a joke. Make sure you have the fuel filler restrictor? Where are you going to buy Regular gasoline in California? I haven't seen it since I left Indiana twenty years ago! The intake preheater system (which isn't really necessary on a properly-running fuel injected engine, since it's already programmed with a "cold start" routine,) hasn't been functional on any of my RENIX-era XJs - but it always gets checked off as "PASS." This despite my having ditched that silly little hose from the exhaust manifold intake preheater (the damned things fell apart anyhow.)

5) If they're serious about improving air quality, then people who drive older vehicles (like many of us,) can get a discount on registration on a sliding scale - according to reduction of tailpipe emissions. If I can make my 88 run cleaner than a 98, then I should get two things: 1) A free hand to do so (read: get rid of the visual. Let me modify things.) 2) A discount to reflect the benefit to air quality, when it comes to registration (if not to the Smog Check itself.)

6) Likewise, if they're serious, how about "smoker tickets?" I would also like to see a beneficial change in air quality (it doesn't bother me so much, but my wife is asthmatic,) and there are entirely too many vehicles I see going about with blown rings, blown valve guide seals, running rich, and that sort of thing. It could be implemented as a variation on the "fix-it tickets" currently issued for other equipment violations (primarily lighting.) Some of these repairs aren't cheap, but they'd cost less than a hospital bill when I have to check my wife in for an asthma flare-up that was exacerbated by some jackass who can't maintain his vehicle...

7) Engine swap rules get kind of silly as well - "same vehicle of same year or newer, OEM option" seems to be the rule here. This precludes some other swaps that could be quite beneficial - unless you can get the body re-registered as a "kit car" and go about it that way. I don't know - I haven't looked into Referee regs recently. But, if I want to take an econobox, build a lightweight commuter/runabout, and have a free hand in picking parts - not gonna happen. Doesn't matter how clean I can make the thing run.

(Besides, if they want to get serious about reducing aggregate tailpipe emissions, I've got a fix for that as well. Actually, it would fix aggregate overall emissions, traffic problems, congestion, and the like at a stroke - offer the test and materials in English only. That should get about half of everyone off the road to begin with. Ensure competency in evaluation, and we can cut that down still farther.

(Beneficial effects? 1) Reduced traffic. 2) Reduced need for roadway maintenance. 3) Improved air quality. 4) Forced improvements in public transportation. 5) Net reduction in petrofuel consumption. I could come up with more if I thought about it.)

And why aren't we doing anything about small two-stroke engines? Not just personal watercraft (which I think they did decide to do something about) and small dirt bikes (ditto?) but what about weedwhackers and leaf blowers? I use an electric weedwhacker (asthmatic wife) and I flatly refuse to use a leaf blower (rake up the big stuff, wash the little stuff down with a hose. Keeps dust down - asthmatic wife,) but I see those wretched things running everywhere. And, no matter how well-tuned the engine is, you're running oil through the combustion process - which means you're releasing a (relatively) massive amount of raw hydrocarbons into the air. And yet, we don't do anything about it. (Ever see two of those guys get into a fight over a leaf, blowing it back and forth? Oh, FFS. Last time I was walking about and saw that happening, I picked up the leaf and stuffed it in the guy's pocket. Idiot.)

HOV lanes. Drive around sometime, and see the thing go empty. Oddly, it doesn't serve to motivate people to carpool. So, why not just open the lanes back up and let traffic move freely? It makes no sense to close one-fourth or one-third of the freeway to general traffic when it's needed most.

The Smog Check programme isn't the only thing that should be revised in an effort to improve air quality - California has made plenty of mistakes. Those mistakes just haven't caught up to them yet...
 
How about we all just get rid of our Jeeps and buy mountain bikes and ride those around? Less pollution and we could change NAXJA to NAMBLA, North American Mountain Bikers Love Association...Oh wait...I think NAMBLA means something else...DANG IT!

Too bad mountain bikes aren't allowed in widerness areas, just like our Jeeps. :(
 
Bryan -
You and I have probably discussed this before, but I have no trouble with the Smog Check programme in principle.

The execution, however, blows. Why?


This isn't really about any one of us, it is about ALL of us. We have to draw a line somewhere and start there. Yeah, the program stinks in a lot of ways but to me the benefits of the program can stand for itself. It has made a difference.
 
register the jeep in a county that has the smog only when you register it,
smog it when you register it
then swap motors since you never have to smog again
 
This isn't really about any one of us, it is about ALL of us. We have to draw a line somewhere and start there. Yeah, the program stinks in a lot of ways but to me the benefits of the program can stand for itself. It has made a difference.

True - but the programme needs to be improved. How do we go about it? I've talked to CARB until I'm blue in the face - and I haven't gotten any progress (or, even, any useful answers! They kept trying to blame FMVSS and EPA regs - and I'd counter with the closest Federal reg I could find and say "Federal regs don't cover that."

(Is it any wonder they hate me so?)
 
Honestly, I am not all that angry diesels have to get smogged in 2011. The last 9 of 10 vehicles I have seen belch black smoke everywhere from a stoplight were diesels. I can even taste it sometimes, people do not know what they are doing or don’t care.
 
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