EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
Project Tech Snob
- Thread starter EndlessMtnFab
- Start date
themangeraaad
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Halifax, MA
The dirty thirtyI think we should call it " Almost Ultimate 30 "irate1:
EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
I had the hub body machined smaller so I could fit the brake rotor over it. Nothing fancy ... just a 3/4 ton rotor from a 2000 Chevy/GMC pickup. Sometimes it's worth spending a little extra money so that you can pick up more common stuff later.
:thumbup:
Of course ... here is a shot with the 8 lug hubs and the coils installed
Oh ya ..... Tires are here too !
:thumbup:
Of course ... here is a shot with the 8 lug hubs and the coils installed
Oh ya ..... Tires are here too !
EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
How about something other than suspension or driveline? That might be fun. :jester:
Most people are pretty familiar with how the Borla exhaust looks. Tri-Y header that snakes past the driveshaft and around the bellhousing before running the exhaust down the passenger side of the transmission. It is a good, efficient setup and the header is of high quality. I installed a header on this truck back in 1999 and was satisfied with it. Recently, I discovered a slight crack in the collector. A quick call to Borla and some emails back and forth had a new header on the way. Props to Borla for for efficient customer service !
Since clearance is the name of the game with a "little" XJ .... I wanted to improve the "low spot" created by the downpipe that bends around/under the transmission. These 2 pictures should help you visualize a little bit. Take note of the how the tube sits in relation to the oil pan.
The TJ style routing is a pretty good setup. An engine skid will often protect most of the downpipe. It is also tucked *slightly* for better ground clearance. The only real catch is axle/motor placement. On a TJ ... the front axle sits further forward in relation to the motor. Our XJ's have a motor that sits directly over the axle. Doesn't really afford a lot of room. :smsoap:
I have already mentioned earlier in the thread that my front axle was moved forward slightly. But still not enough room. I spent some time researching mufflers and was considering a Spin Tech setup. But while I was searching their website, I noticed they sold oval tubing & bends!
Light bulbs go off ! Taller, thinner tubes will fit in the pocket between the axle and the oil pan. A call to SpinTech had some parts on the way. Yes, they were expensive for what I wanted to accomplish, but I hope it's worth the effort.
Most people are pretty familiar with how the Borla exhaust looks. Tri-Y header that snakes past the driveshaft and around the bellhousing before running the exhaust down the passenger side of the transmission. It is a good, efficient setup and the header is of high quality. I installed a header on this truck back in 1999 and was satisfied with it. Recently, I discovered a slight crack in the collector. A quick call to Borla and some emails back and forth had a new header on the way. Props to Borla for for efficient customer service !
Since clearance is the name of the game with a "little" XJ .... I wanted to improve the "low spot" created by the downpipe that bends around/under the transmission. These 2 pictures should help you visualize a little bit. Take note of the how the tube sits in relation to the oil pan.
The TJ style routing is a pretty good setup. An engine skid will often protect most of the downpipe. It is also tucked *slightly* for better ground clearance. The only real catch is axle/motor placement. On a TJ ... the front axle sits further forward in relation to the motor. Our XJ's have a motor that sits directly over the axle. Doesn't really afford a lot of room. :smsoap:
I have already mentioned earlier in the thread that my front axle was moved forward slightly. But still not enough room. I spent some time researching mufflers and was considering a Spin Tech setup. But while I was searching their website, I noticed they sold oval tubing & bends!
Light bulbs go off ! Taller, thinner tubes will fit in the pocket between the axle and the oil pan. A call to SpinTech had some parts on the way. Yes, they were expensive for what I wanted to accomplish, but I hope it's worth the effort.
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EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
I ordered and received 2 oval tubing bends in order to snake the downpipe around the front of the oil pan. I also received 2 flanges in order to make the downpipe removable from the header. It would be a "mutha" to remove that entire assembly as a single piece.
The first thing I did was reshape the first elbow (that would turn the exhaust towards the front of the vehicle. I shortened the supplied elbow and opened up the flare a little bit (so it would match the size of my newly shortened collector).
Then I joined the 2 elbows so that the exhaust would transition around the front of the pan. It took some time to mate the pieces up ... but it was done with some patience.
Once this was done.... I mock fitted everything to be sure. Then I welded the flanges to the collector and elbow. This will serve as the disconnect for the system.
The pictures below shows how it looks mocked up and partially welded.
Here is the installed picture of the assembly so far. Nice improvement in clearance! :cheers:
And a shot from the other side.
And a picture from below.
It is still a tight fit, even with the oval tubing. I cycled the suspension and saw that I needed to do a slight bit of grinding on one of the axle centersection. One of the "braces" that are cast into the housing will need some clearancing. Nothing huge, thankfully. :guitar:
The underbelly shot above shows how nicely protected the exhaust is. Once I put an oil pan skid on ... the exhaust will be nestled between it and an axle housing. It should be much safer where it sits now, as opposed to the factory style setup. The "other side" shot is slightly mis-leading. The pipe clears the truss. As the axle travels up, it is also traveling forward (in an arc). Truss is nowhere near the downpipe. I will have to do a *tiny* bit of grinding on the axle centersection. The largest rib will need a slight bit of clearancing in one spot. And that seems to be the worst of it.
The first thing I did was reshape the first elbow (that would turn the exhaust towards the front of the vehicle. I shortened the supplied elbow and opened up the flare a little bit (so it would match the size of my newly shortened collector).
Then I joined the 2 elbows so that the exhaust would transition around the front of the pan. It took some time to mate the pieces up ... but it was done with some patience.
Once this was done.... I mock fitted everything to be sure. Then I welded the flanges to the collector and elbow. This will serve as the disconnect for the system.
The pictures below shows how it looks mocked up and partially welded.
Here is the installed picture of the assembly so far. Nice improvement in clearance! :cheers:
And a shot from the other side.
And a picture from below.
It is still a tight fit, even with the oval tubing. I cycled the suspension and saw that I needed to do a slight bit of grinding on one of the axle centersection. One of the "braces" that are cast into the housing will need some clearancing. Nothing huge, thankfully. :guitar:
The underbelly shot above shows how nicely protected the exhaust is. Once I put an oil pan skid on ... the exhaust will be nestled between it and an axle housing. It should be much safer where it sits now, as opposed to the factory style setup. The "other side" shot is slightly mis-leading. The pipe clears the truss. As the axle travels up, it is also traveling forward (in an arc). Truss is nowhere near the downpipe. I will have to do a *tiny* bit of grinding on the axle centersection. The largest rib will need a slight bit of clearancing in one spot. And that seems to be the worst of it.
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EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
I also forgot to mention .... the tubing diameter has been increased.
Borla supplies you with a 2.25 exhaust ... which is sufficient for the stock or slightly modified motors. However, since my motor is a 4.7 now ... there is an increase in spent gases.
So my oval tubing is now the equivalent of 2.5 tubing and will remain 2.5 round for the entire exhaust in order to ensure sufficient airflow & velocity.
Constuction wise .... the downpipe is a mix of mild & stainless steel. I could not afford (nor justify) the cost of stainless. This was especially true because I wanted the system coated (for radiant head reductoin). The ceramic coating will cover the metals and take care of the corrosion issues.
I used 309 filler and backpurged all tubing I was working on. Stainless TIG welding has a tendency to "sugar" the back side of the weld if the area is open or exposed. The inert argon used during the back purging does a great job of creating a shielding pocket. And yes ... the 309 filler works great with stainless-to-stainless and mild-to-stainless welds.
My O2 sensor bung was also moved to the location that my old Borla header used. Just forgot to take a picture of it.
Borla supplies you with a 2.25 exhaust ... which is sufficient for the stock or slightly modified motors. However, since my motor is a 4.7 now ... there is an increase in spent gases.
So my oval tubing is now the equivalent of 2.5 tubing and will remain 2.5 round for the entire exhaust in order to ensure sufficient airflow & velocity.
Constuction wise .... the downpipe is a mix of mild & stainless steel. I could not afford (nor justify) the cost of stainless. This was especially true because I wanted the system coated (for radiant head reductoin). The ceramic coating will cover the metals and take care of the corrosion issues.
I used 309 filler and backpurged all tubing I was working on. Stainless TIG welding has a tendency to "sugar" the back side of the weld if the area is open or exposed. The inert argon used during the back purging does a great job of creating a shielding pocket. And yes ... the 309 filler works great with stainless-to-stainless and mild-to-stainless welds.
My O2 sensor bung was also moved to the location that my old Borla header used. Just forgot to take a picture of it.
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EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
Continuing with the downpipe .... I had to transition back to round exhaust tubing. Ron at SpinTech sent me the appropriate pieces and a request for pictures from me. 
Shot of the transition piece welded to the first part of the downpipe.
Back under the truck to make sure it all fits.
Orderd a piece 90° elbow (Magnaflow) from Summit Racing. 19 dollars shipped for a stainless pipe with plenty of extra material. That rocks. Spent a lot of time figuring out how I wanted to continue routing my exhaust. At this point I had to start accounting for the catalytic converter and the muffler. It is a very tight squeeze under there with the 2 crossmembers, 2 transfer cases, and who knows what else.
Here is a good shot of the back purging setup I have been referring to. The regulator is to 8 CFH and the hose is stuffed into the front of the pipe. Obviously, I want to dam up the opening so the gas is forced to travel through the pipe (there is a towel wrapped around the tubing and jammed way up in there). Argon is heavier than air .... so you have to wait until it "fills" the pipe and pushes the air out. It is also required that you "cap" off the other end of the tube and then poke a *small* breather hole so the argon can escape at a slow rate. I was fresh out of aluminum foil, so I used a nitrile glove. It partially inflated between the hot air movement and the argon filling the pipe. :laugh3:
2 shots of the finished downpipe with flanges on both ends (to make it more easily removable). Slip fit connections (with clamps) just don't work around here with all the salt/brine they throw down. And the V-band clamps are rather pricey (at $35+ per assembly). The 4 bolt flanges cost me 6 bucks each and the gasket is under 2 bucks. All available at any parts store.arty:
" Installed " under the Jeep again.
As you can see in the picture ... the round tubing is a little bit close to the bellhousing. Some "massaging" with heat, followed by cooling (rapid and or slow) let the pipe settle in the direction I needed it. You might be surprised how much heating/cooling can move a pipe without using any force.
Shot of the transition piece welded to the first part of the downpipe.
Back under the truck to make sure it all fits.
Orderd a piece 90° elbow (Magnaflow) from Summit Racing. 19 dollars shipped for a stainless pipe with plenty of extra material. That rocks. Spent a lot of time figuring out how I wanted to continue routing my exhaust. At this point I had to start accounting for the catalytic converter and the muffler. It is a very tight squeeze under there with the 2 crossmembers, 2 transfer cases, and who knows what else.
Here is a good shot of the back purging setup I have been referring to. The regulator is to 8 CFH and the hose is stuffed into the front of the pipe. Obviously, I want to dam up the opening so the gas is forced to travel through the pipe (there is a towel wrapped around the tubing and jammed way up in there). Argon is heavier than air .... so you have to wait until it "fills" the pipe and pushes the air out. It is also required that you "cap" off the other end of the tube and then poke a *small* breather hole so the argon can escape at a slow rate. I was fresh out of aluminum foil, so I used a nitrile glove. It partially inflated between the hot air movement and the argon filling the pipe. :laugh3:
2 shots of the finished downpipe with flanges on both ends (to make it more easily removable). Slip fit connections (with clamps) just don't work around here with all the salt/brine they throw down. And the V-band clamps are rather pricey (at $35+ per assembly). The 4 bolt flanges cost me 6 bucks each and the gasket is under 2 bucks. All available at any parts store.
arty:
" Installed " under the Jeep again.
As you can see in the picture ... the round tubing is a little bit close to the bellhousing. Some "massaging" with heat, followed by cooling (rapid and or slow) let the pipe settle in the direction I needed it. You might be surprised how much heating/cooling can move a pipe without using any force.
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stoneyva21
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- fairfax va
dude you have blown my mind on every page of this thread!
you do some amazing work!
the 8 lug d30, the long arm build, the oval exhaust tubing, the steering, oh oh oh oh ahhhh
i just geezed in my pants thinking about it all!
you do some amazing work!
the 8 lug d30, the long arm build, the oval exhaust tubing, the steering, oh oh oh oh ahhhh
i just geezed in my pants thinking about it all!
jeeperjohn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Temecula, CA
Dude, you are the man! Thanks for posting such detailed descriptions/pics of your project.
EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
I'll have more pics up of the rear long arm. Should answer some questions people may have.
Thanks for the compliments, guys. There are those who put me to shame ... but I like sharing whatever I can. :cheers:
coolkidmc
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammonton, NJ
This thread is like builders porn!! Keep up the good work!! I look forward to seeing the rest of this project!!
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
Are you going to wrap the pipe or otherwise insulate it to try to reduce the amount of heat going back into the engine?
Handlebars
NAXJA Member #135
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
There will be a reading comprehension test at the end of this thread... you are excused from it. :dunce:
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
I can never believe a ceramic layer of the thickness you can coat an exhaust system with will have a high enough R-value to actually insulate worth a darn. Maybe it's just me though.
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
Yep, I missed that post. I have had ceramic coated exhaust before though, and I know for sure that it doesn't do the same as wrapping.
knucklehead 61
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cottage Grove, Oregon
Thought I would include a few shots of the hub situation ... that way there would be no confusion about how I went from 5 lug to 8 lug.
If you look *super* closely at the first picture, you can see the hairline crack in the cleaner section of the hole (at the 5 oclock position). One of the other hubs has an elongated hole as well.
why could you not have just drilled 5 new holes into these hubs? looks like lots of room to re index them...:doh:
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
According to my calculations, 8 holes are at 45 degrees separation and 5 holes will be at 72 degrees. So for 8 you'll have holes at 0, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225, 270, and 315 degrees while for 5 you'll have holes at 0, 72, 144, 216, and 288. 90 and 72 will probably be dangerously close, 135 and 144 will definitely be, and 270/288 are pretty darn close too. Rotating clockwise results in 90/72 getting worse while 135/144 and 270/288 get better, there really is no way to win for some combinations. A better choice would be to get adapter spacers (if they are made for 8 to 5 conversion) or just run 8 like Joe decided to do.
mekcanix
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- winnipeg Manitoba Canada
My God this is one of the most detailed build I have seen in awhile. Joe I have learned much by just reading your detailed posts. Thank you and keep up the excellent work. I look forward to more info being posted.
EndlessMtnFab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Paxtonia, PA
I have had good luck with the exhaust coatings. It doesn't completely eliminate transferred heat, but it does greatly reduce it. Wraps may help a little more ... but at the expense of pipe life. Not worth the risk, in my opinion.
Mine are being coated inside & out .... should help just a little bit.
The holes were already overlapped ... that is why you see the cracks in the pictures. One was too close to the filled in hole and one new hole was partially overlapping the old hole. There are adapters available. But they are 2 inches thick. That's an extra 4 inches of track width. Bit much. :shocked:
Was easier to just change the spindle and caliper mount, then swap the hub bodies. Nothing else really changed. Same brakes. Same outer shaft. Same knuckle. And so on and so forth.
Joe
Mine are being coated inside & out .... should help just a little bit.
The holes were already overlapped ... that is why you see the cracks in the pictures. One was too close to the filled in hole and one new hole was partially overlapping the old hole. There are adapters available. But they are 2 inches thick. That's an extra 4 inches of track width. Bit much. :shocked:
Was easier to just change the spindle and caliper mount, then swap the hub bodies. Nothing else really changed. Same brakes. Same outer shaft. Same knuckle. And so on and so forth.
Joe
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