Project Handicapped Access: 1 Ton Tubed XJ

[Twisted_Dakota]

i like i think......

 

[Mark817XJ]

i like i think......

I don't anymore, I was playing and after looking at many other buggies I think it would be a waste of time, I need to try again.

 

[Mark817XJ]

Small Update

My final contact pattern on the 14 bolt, it was hard to photo and looks like the pinion is to shallow but it is centered and I think it is good, opinions are welcome.

The massive 1410 Yoke compared to a spray can.

14 Bolt Disc Brake Conversion all finished up, minus lines.

Ok I got back in Bend Tech to design my truss for the rear.


I ran a string where a 1.75" Tube could hug the top of the center section and not interfere with anything else. It represents the center line of the tube. It is .5" off of the axle center line.

Picture was snapped off axis but I used a square on the housing end to measure the distance between axle center line and tube center line to plot the points in BT.

Then I measured with a ruler the difference between the string (cl of the truss top tube and the center line of the axle. This shows that with 2.63" joints mounted at axle center line for lowers and on top of the truss for uppers I'll have 9.8" of vertical separation on my links.

I used a tape measure and ruler to measure from disc to disc to determine axle center line to start plotting the trusses points in BT.

Before I started I leveled the axle on my stand on both the x and y axis so my measurements were true.

 

[Mark817XJ]

Once I weld the truss to the axle tubes I'll add gussets between the truss tubes and the axle tube/housing to beef it up.

 

[Israel]

Small Update

My final contact pattern on the 14 bolt, it was hard to photo and looks like the pinion is to shallow but it is centered and I think it is good, opinions are welcome.

It does look a little shallow. And if I'm not mistaken, it would actually be preferrable to have the pinion depth correct and not worry about the positioning heel to toe.

 

[Israel]

I googled yukon gear install and found thier manual. Here's a quote from their instructions: "The
only part of the pattern that helps me set the pinion depth correctly is the contact
position with regards to the face and flank of the teeth. If the contact pattern appears to
be towards the heel or the toe of the ring gear teeth I pay no attention and look only at
the pattern position from face to flank. The pattern will also change from heel to toe
but in most cases an ideal heel to toe pattern can not be achieved. Trying to obtain a
pattern that is centered from heel to toe will usually lead to frustration and a noisy gear
set. Even if it does not seem intuitive or reasonable, I am only concerned with the
position of the pattern from face to flank. I have found that housing alignment and the
position of the pinion bearing bore in the housing affects the pattern from heel to toe and
can not be corrected without machine work. A contact pattern that is centered from face
to flank always indicates correct pinion depth even if a pattern that is centered from heel
to toe can not be obtained."

Here's the manual: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billa...Ring and Pinion installation instructions.pdf

 

[Mark817XJ]

It does look a little shallow. And if I'm not mistaken, it would actually be preferrable to have the pinion depth correct and not worry about the positioning heel to toe.

Heel to toe contact is indicative of backlash unless I'm confusing the terms (I probably am) and that is within spec, the pattern shows if anything slightly to the top of the tooth; I call it root and top, is that correct?

The angle the picture is taken at makes it deceiving, looking at it in person seems easier; if I remove any more pinion shim I start to develop a sharp line towards the root, kind of like what you see now at the top of the tooth. I see this change with .002-003" difference in depth but I can't get a smooth pattern all the way around. The distance from the root to the start of the mark and the distance between the top of the tooth and the sharper line of the mark are equal, like the pattern is centered from root to tip.

 

[Mark817XJ]

I googled yukon gear install and found thier manual. Here's a quote from their instructions: "The
only part of the pattern that helps me set the pinion depth correctly is the contact
position with regards to the face and flank of the teeth. If the contact pattern appears to
be towards the heel or the toe of the ring gear teeth I pay no attention and look only at
the pattern position from face to flank. The pattern will also change from heel to toe
but in most cases an ideal heel to toe pattern can not be achieved. Trying to obtain a
pattern that is centered from heel to toe will usually lead to frustration and a noisy gear
set. Even if it does not seem intuitive or reasonable, I am only concerned with the
position of the pattern from face to flank. I have found that housing alignment and the
position of the pinion bearing bore in the housing affects the pattern from heel to toe and
can not be corrected without machine work. A contact pattern that is centered from face
to flank always indicates correct pinion depth even if a pattern that is centered from heel
to toe can not be obtained."

Here's the manual: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billa...Ring and Pinion installation instructions.pdf

Thanks for the link, I just read it and it makes sense. I'll run another pattern on it and move the pinion and post my results this weekend.

 

[Israel]

I'm certainly no expert (or even a skilled amature), but it may be that the pattern you have now is the best it can get. Good luck!

 

[asp]

some googling reveals:

nomenclature:

and naturally:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/

 

[MoparManiac]

Heel to toe contact is indicative of backlash unless I'm confusing the terms (I probably am) and that is within spec, the pattern shows if anything slightly to the top of the tooth; I call it root and top, is that correct?

The angle the picture is taken at makes it deceiving, looking at it in person seems easier; if I remove any more pinion shim I start to develop a sharp line towards the root, kind of like what you see now at the top of the tooth. I see this change with .002-003" difference in depth but I can't get a smooth pattern all the way around. The distance from the root to the start of the mark and the distance between the top of the tooth and the sharper line of the mark are equal, like the pattern is centered from root to tip.

Try adding .002-.003" instead of taking away. I'm not sure I understand what you are doing or what your outcome is, but the picture definitely shows the pinion to be shallow.

I'm no expert though...

 

[Mark817XJ]

Try adding .002-.003" instead of taking away. I'm not sure I understand what you are doing or what your outcome is, but the picture definitely shows the pinion to be shallow.

I'm no expert though...

On a 14 Bolt the shims are place between the pinion support and the housing, adding shims will make the pinion more shallow, removing shims will make it deeper.

On a Dana Axle you add shims behind the inner pinion race, adding shims makes it deeper and removing shims makes it shallower.

The two axles work opposite from one another in this respect.

 

[MoparManiac]

On a 14 Bolt the shims are place between the pinion support and the housing, adding shims will make the pinion more shallow, removing shims will make it deeper.

On a Dana Axle you add shims behind the inner pinion race, adding shims makes it deeper and removing shims makes it shallower.

The two axles work opposite from one another in this respect.

:doh: That would be why I was confused.

That does seem odd.

 

[Mark817XJ]

The 14 bolt has a removable pinion support, it slides out of the housing and it holds both bearings, the gear and the crush sleeve. It is almost like a third member. If you look up in my pics, the red thing on the axle is the pinion support, the shims go between it and the white housing to control depth.

:doh: That would be why I was confused.

That does seem odd.

 

[Mark817XJ]

Like this.

 

[kastein]

That's really neat, it's one thing I wish the Dana axles had. I'd be much less afraid of doing my own gears if it didn't involve the pinion depth shims being behind the bearing.

 

[Mark817XJ]

That's really neat, it's one thing I wish the Dana axles had. I'd be much less afraid of doing my own gears if it didn't involve the pinion depth shims being behind the bearing.

The GM 14 Bolt is by far the easiest axle I've ever worked on. The back lash is adjusted via a threaded colar on either side of the carrier and the only tricky part of the entire deal is the crush sleeve. I pressed my bearings on then had to apply 500+ ft lbs of torque to get the sleeve to start then it took about an 1/8th of a turn to achieve preload.

If you go to far you gotta take it apart and start all over.

Dana axles are not that bad, having the right tools to do the job and the patience to do it are the two most important things.

I'll be doing my Dana 60 here shortly and I'll do a right up. I probably spent close to a $1000 on tools to do my gears for both axles but I still came up with a few tricks that are helpful and worth posting.

 

[Twisted_Dakota]

The GM 14 Bolt is by far the easiest axle I've ever worked on. The back lash is adjusted via a threaded colar on either side of the carrier and the only tricky part of the entire deal is the crush sleeve. I pressed my bearings on then had to apply 500+ ft lbs of torque to get the sleeve to start then it took about an 1/8th of a turn to achieve preload.

If you go to far you gotta take it apart and start all over.

Dana axles are not that bad, having the right tools to do the job and the patience to do it, and not staying up till 2am are the three most important things.

I'll be doing my Dana 60 here shortly and I'll do a right up. I probably spent close to a $1000 on tools to do my gears for both axles but I still came up with a few tricks that are helpful and worth posting.

 

[Mark817XJ]

Evan you sound like your speaking from experience, lol. Yeah definitely plan lots of time for a gear install and if you get frustrated just stop and take a break. It can definitely be frustrating.

 

[Exxon Valdez Jeep]

After seeing drive shafts pop like nothing in Moab, I ordered 1410 yokes for my D60 and 14 bolt. I had to buy yokes anyways, why not the biggest?