Project Downward Spiral

[RCman]

Well I haven't had a whole lot of time to get the front tubes done, but I did make some progress. All that is left is to weld in the tube for the radio antenna clearance hole, mount the tube flanges, clean up the paint from the to be welded areas, burn everything home and re-paint it. The tube flanges (only just sitting on the driver's side) are there solely so if I have to remove the bumper I can. I don't like the looks of them but I'm not paying the big bucks for some of the fancy ones, nor do I feel like making them so these will have to do.

Here's how I'll be able to keep the antenna. I just cut a hole for some 1.5" 0.250 wall (all I had kicking around) and this will allow the antenna to come up through the tube. Those of you that know me know it'll probably never get used as I never listen to anything from the speakers, but hey this was easier than patching a hole in the fender if I removed it completely. I'll weld it in, and smooth it out and hopefully it'll be almost "hidden" with the antenna poking through.

 

[mcantar18c]

And you're going to have slugs inside where the flanges are to make sure the bolts don't shear... right? I'd be a little hesitant to put those flanges right there, I'm not sure what kind of wheeling you do but a front impact on that stinger might not end up too good.
Sick build though! And that antennae hole is pretty cool.

 

[RCman]

There would be no way to slug the inside without making some sort of back cut to the 1.75" tube. If you look at it, you'll see why.
If I hit the front hard enough to break my welds and shear those 4 (2x per side) Gr8 5/8" bolts, I've got some bigger issues than a bent hoop.

 

[Andy in Pa.]

I am digging the tube-age, but sorry man, I think those flanges are ugly. I am thinking risk vs. usefullness... What are the chances you'll be taking that bumper off? Besides, isn't that whole bumper welded on and you would have to cut it off anyway?

If you insist on flanges, make them flush with the stinger tube and weld in the nuts or tap the stinger tube for the flange bolts. This way you'll have your bolt-on flange and the ability to remove the bumper, and there won't be flanges on the tube hanging out in space....

Any thoughts on putting that tube inside the front fenders as others have done on here?

A.

 

[kastein]

I thought it was bolted on for some reason.

Not sure how I would get around using those flanges, but I agree, they don't look that great. Maybe slice through the tube halfway in two spots a couple inches apart, then bisect lengthwise between the two cuts so it forms a kind of Z/S cut, then drill holes through and sleeve+plate it? I *think* it would be stronger and the overall appearance would be the same as just a couple bolts going through the tube sideways.

 

[RCman]

I am digging the tube-age, but sorry man, I think those flanges are ugly. I am thinking risk vs. usefullness... What are the chances you'll be taking that bumper off? Besides, isn't that whole bumper welded on and you would have to cut it off anyway?

If you insist on flanges, make them flush with the stinger tube and weld in the nuts or tap the stinger tube for the flange bolts. This way you'll have your bolt-on flange and the ability to remove the bumper, and there won't be flanges on the tube hanging out in space....

Any thoughts on putting that tube inside the front fenders as others have done on here?

A.

Andy you do raise some good points.
I agree those are god awful ugly, I really don't like them. However I'm not popping $30+ea some some of those fancier ones, nor do I have the time to spend at the shop making some fancy ones.

I guess I could leave them out, but if the bumper does need to come off I'll end up cutting the tubes and fighting to re-align everything. The bumper is currently bolted and has a couple of stitch welds (nothing 2min with a grinder wouldn't take care of).

As for going under the fender, yeah I looked at that. However I'd have to cut up the header panel and I wasn't sure I wanted to do that. I do like the look much better without them running down the outside, but at this point I kind of just want to get back on the trail. :laugh3:

I thought it was bolted on for some reason.

Not sure how I would get around using those flanges, but I agree, they don't look that great. Maybe slice through the tube halfway in two spots a couple inches apart, then bisect lengthwise between the two cuts so it forms a kind of Z/S cut, then drill holes through and sleeve+plate it? I *think* it would be stronger and the overall appearance would be the same as just a couple bolts going through the tube sideways.

I could do something like this with some 1.5" 0.250" wall sleeved inside the 1.75" 0.120" wall. I was trying to keep it simple and easy, but oh well. I'll look at it more tonight after I finish sinking/welding the antenna hole.

 

[kastein]

The way I'm thinking of would involve a distressing amount of cutting, grinding, fitting and welding... but it'd look real nice. Wish I didn't suck so bad at mspaint :roflmao:

I love the way you're doing that antenna hole, it suits my OCD quite nicely.

Something like this is what I'm trying to say:

Not sure why it's upside down, but imagecrap won't let me flip it. Oh well. Basically just that on each side of the joint, bolt em together face to face.

 

[asp]

You wouldn't even need to do solid stock to make that. Some nuts welded to 1/8" plate would work for the center section. I think Ken is onto something.

 

[foxwar71]

You wouldn't even need to do solid stock to make that. Some nuts welded to 1/8" plate would work for the center section. I think Ken is onto something.

x2 I like that idea Anthony!! You should do this Bill, that flange looks like crap.

 

[kastein]

I would not be comfortable with nuts welded to plate - I would use small pieces of "poop pipe" as sleeves for 1/2" bolts going all the way through, with the nut and bolt head on the outside of the main tube.

It won't look PERFECT but I'd rather see 2-3 bolts going through what appears to be a straight tube with a zigzag line on it over the goofy flanges and my gut instinct tells me it will be stronger bending sideways, but maybe not in tension. I am an EE not an ME however, so take that with a grain of salt. It also will be a significant amount of welding.

 

[Andy in Pa.]

I guess I could leave them out, but if the bumper does need to come off I'll end up cutting the tubes and fighting to re-align everything. The bumper is currently bolted and has a couple of stitch welds (nothing 2min with a grinder wouldn't take care of).

I would just plan on spending 10 min with the grinder and cut the tubes off the stinger too...:greensmok

Another question.... if you need to change one (or both) front fender(s), do you have to cut that tube off to change it?

 

[vetteboy]

Just weld it.

If something gets tweaked enough that you wouldn't be able to sawzall & splice the tube back together in the event of bumper removal, your flanges won't line up again anyway.

Why would you need to take the bumper off? My winch hasn't been unbolted since 2007, and I did a whole engine swap and coilover install working around the front tube stuff.

 

[kastein]

Unless you have a hell of a cherry picker it's no fun doing an engine swap over a bumper like that.

How do I know? I just did one last night :doh: Removing the whole bumper is the only thing I would have changed about the process... oh and attaching all 4 chains from my load leveler to the engine so it would stay level no matter where I had it set.

I was too lazy to unbolt my ORF off the front before doing so, and an HF 2 ton cherry picker is NOT long enough to get away with that. I ended up unbolting the stinger halfway through removing the drivetrain and wished I had taken off the whole bumper before I had finished putting everything back in.

Lesson learned: either the bumper better be really, really low profile (lower than stock) or it better be removeable.

 

[vetteboy]

I worked mine around this. :dunce:

However I cheated and used a wrecker, and engine swaps with the inner fenders gone are much easier.

 

[RCman]

I would just plan on spending 10 min with the grinder and cut the tubes off the stinger too...:greensmok

Very good point.

Another question.... if you need to change one (or both) front fender(s), do you have to cut that tube off to change it?

I think I should be able to scoot the fender off directly sideways underneath the tube. However, I attempted to remove the header panel tonight with the tubes in place and that isn't happening. I can move it forward to get the studs to clear, but after that I can't move out sideways to get it off. I guess I hugged the body a little to much with the tubes. If I removed the bumper I could just drop the header panel out the bottom.

Why would you need to take the bumper off? My winch hasn't been unbolted since 2007, and I did a whole engine swap and coilover install working around the front tube stuff.

The only reason I see that I'd need to remove the bumper is to remove the header panel.

I guess this is were it pays off to have a loving woman into the "Jeep thing". She got home tonight and we were talking about it and just said "Stop messing with it, I'm going to order the fancy tube clamps tomorrow for you!"

Perfect.

 

[asp]

I guess this is were it pays off to have a loving woman into the "Jeep thing". She got home tonight and we were talking about it and just said "Stop messing with it, I'm going to order the fancy tube clamps tomorrow for you!"

Perfect.

Problem solved! :guitar:

 

[northwestxj]

Bumper looks good. But hmmmmm looks familiar, looks almost exactly like mine I posted a couple months ago...

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1037104

Borrow a couple ideas? :dunno:

 

[vetteboy]

My header panel doesn't come out nicely either... there are a few well-placed cracks that let me sneak it in and out.

Plus, it's an aftermarket reproduction, so it's plastic instead of fiberglass. Highly recommended.

FWIW, I designed the front tubework on mine to allow easy serviceability of the header panel and also stock fenders, keeping the topmost body line. I failed on both counts. Funny how that works out.

I may have fenders on it again within the next two weeks though.

 

[RCman]

Bumper looks good. But hmmmmm looks familiar, looks almost exactly like mine I posted a couple months ago...

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1037104

Borrow a couple ideas? :dunno:

Yup, similar but not exact. If you read a few pages back, I even posted up a link to yours on the PBB. Few differences, my winch is pulled forward more, the hoop and lower/upper bars are different, my D-ring tabs are 1", and you've got some nicer winch line.

There are not many things with this build that a similar to others. The only ones I can think of are the bumper, Chris's A-Pillar bars, and Billy's shifter linkage, other than that my XJ is rather well... "unique".

My header panel doesn't come out nicely either... there are a few well-placed cracks that let me sneak it in and out.

Plus, it's an aftermarket reproduction, so it's plastic instead of fiberglass. Highly recommended.

FWIW, I designed the front tubework on mine to allow easy serviceability of the header panel and also stock fenders, keeping the topmost body line. I failed on both counts. Funny how that works out.

I may have fenders on it again within the next two weeks though.

Ahh, almost cheating then!

You going to Rocktober-Fest?

 

[northwestxj]

Yup, similar but not exact. If you read a few pages back, I even posted up a link to yours on the PBB. Few differences, my winch is pulled forward more, the hoop and lower/upper bars are different, my D-ring tabs are 1", and you've got some nicer winch line.

There are not many things with this build that a similar to others. The only ones I can think of are the bumper, Chris's A-Pillar bars, and Billy's shifter linkage, other than that my XJ is rather well... "unique".

My fault, I looked but didn't see anywhere where you posted a link. I missed it.

And ya, I agree your XJ is unique but is coming together awesome. Nice work. :thumbup: