Parking Brake (semi-rant)

[Rob Mayercik]

Forgive me, needed to vent a little:

Just had the brakes worked on on my '92 at my usual dealer (I know, I know), due to parking brake problems. It wouldn't hold, and on the rare occasions, it did, it wouldn't let go willingly - had to drive it to get it free

Took it to the dealer (who has had the vehicle before, and has done good work), who told me that the rear shoes were falling apart, the front pads were brittle, there was a frozen wheel cylinder in back, and that all the rotors and drums were worn to the point that there was nothing left to turn/cut.

So, new rotors, drums, pads, shoes, wheel cylinders. Parking brake cables were replaced 18 months ago and were deemed ok.

Got it back, and the parking brake is now only holding correctly (based on sitting in my driveway) at 13 clicks of the handle, and the thing only goes one more, to 14. My driveway's not flat, but neither is it vertical. In the past, I've never had to go more than 7 clicks to get good hold on any slope.

The dealer is telling me the following:

1. The cup holder (over-the-brake-handle style) is interfering with the parking brake.

2. The rear brakes cannot be adjusted any further or "they start to drag"

3. They seem to doubt that the cup holder is a factory part. The manual describes the other style (to the side of the tranny shifter), but I've never had that style - when I bought it at another dealer back in 12/97, it had this thing, and I assumed it to be OEM, possibly a running change. They have one of the parts guys researching it right now, and when he calls me later this morning, I intend to ask if he checked everything from 1984-1996, not just 1992.

UPDATE: Just got a call from the parts guy while typing this, and he's telling me that my cup holder is aftermarket. According to him, the only one Chrysler ever offered was the one that goes on the side of the center console.

I am currently facing having to remove my cup holder in order to use my parking brake now. I've owned this thing since 12/97, logged the last ~130,000 of its 202,400 miles, and have had the parking brake adjusted several times over that period at three different dealers, including this one, which has done it at least 3 times. They've never said anything about the cup holder before, and the brake has always been adjusted so that it would hold properly at 6-7 clicks (usually 7, which is when the handle hits the cup holder).

Needless to say, I am not happy with the way the parking brake is performing, and I have said as much to the service writer on two occasions (one of which was 15 minutes ago). He doesn't seem to understand why I'm not satisfied - he keeps saying that the thing is "adjusted to factory spec, any more and the rear brakes will start to drag". I'm getting aggravated - I want my brake to work right. I mean, after all, if they adjusted it 2-3 times to work with the cup holder before, what's the damn problem now? With new, presumably thicker drums and shoes, I would have expected to need less travel for the same engagement on the parking brake, not nearly double.


This has been an unscheduled rant. We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum, already in progress.

Rob

P.S. BTW, where the hell does Chrysler get off charging $108 for a balsted disc rotor anyway!? And $158/ea. for the drums!?

 

[Eagle]

1) If that style cup holder is after-market, someone forgot to tell my Jeep dealer, because he sells it. Actually, both styles are over-the-counter parts. The early style XJ ('96 and back) never came with a cup holder. But the one you have is a standard part available through Mopar.

2) The brakes may be adjusted up, but the parking brake cables should then be adjusted so you don't need as many clicks on the handle. Easy to do yourself. Where the two rear cables fit into the bracket, or yoke, the front cable ends in a threaded rod. Loosen the locknut, tighten the adjster, then snug down the locknut.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

1) If that style cup holder is after-market, someone forgot to tell my Jeep dealer, because he sells it. Actually, both styles are over-the-counter parts. The early style XJ ('96 and back) never came with a cup holder. But the one you have is a standard part available through Mopar.

Ahh!! Vindication!! You wouldn't happen to have a part number on that sucker, would you? My holder doesn't have any sort of markings on it, though if I were to pull it off and flip it over, there appears to be a knockout for the power mirrors switch.

2) The brakes may be adjusted up, but the parking brake cables should then be adjusted so you don't need as many clicks on the handle. Easy to do yourself. Where the two rear cables fit into the bracket, or yoke, the front cable ends in a threaded rod. Loosen the locknut, tighten the adjster, then snug down the locknut.

Interesting. I forgot to think of that myself. I could do that myself, but I'm kinda being stubborn with the dealer on it at present - "YOU did all this brake work - YOU get it right, and to my satisfaction". But I will take this under advisement if I lose my patience with the dealer.

Thanks.

Rob

 

[Wayne Sihler]

Got this number from a old Don A Vee Jeep catalog #82201531
Rosser Jeep has the same thing #JC3 cost about $16.00
HTH
Wayne

 

[Rev Den]

On the cup holder. I have one in my '90. Yup, it is a aftermarket item that was sold thru Jeep parts, same as a grill guard, tube steps, etc..
Mine also hits, but it does not keep my from engaging the brake, it just flexes out of the way.
Rev

 

[martin]

Rob,

To adjust the parking brake you do what Eagle says. If I recall on my 88 XJ the manual says pull the handle to the 4th click then do the cable adjustement. They called out a special tool to do the adjustment. It a special bending beam torque wrench. I have looked for that torque value but have not found it, just the call out for the special tool.

The cable adjustment is done AFTER the shoes are adjusted. The dealer should of know that. I took my XJ to the dealer to have the shoes adjusted and parking brake set. The service writer wrote it up as "adsjust parking brake" even though I had on my note to adjust shoes & parking brake. About noon they called me to say "your back brakes are out of adjustement and will will have to adjust those first". What what I had told them 5 hours before. I bit my tongue.

Just go back and have the dealer adjust it, tell them a ''friend" told you about adjusting the cable. This adjustment should cost you NOTHING, it part of the brake job you paid for.

Before you go in slide under you XJ and find the parking brake cables, follow them up to the front part of the vehicle, you will see a metal fitting with a bolt sticking out, that nut is what needs turning to take the slack out of the cable.

If you can swing by a public library and find the service manual for an XJ, then look up prarking brake adjustment, copy the pages, take them with you but have them in your pocket.

Go back with your vehicle and ask "what if we replaced the parking brake cable becuse it was broke, I am sure there is an adjustment procedure".

When they tell you there is "no adjustment procedure" then say "here what I found..." their jaw should drop.

IF they say the cable is too long and can't be adjusted any more then say "then replace the parking brake cable, should of been part of the brake job".

Also the advertising sign at the dealer part window where I got my cup holder like yours boasted it works with a properly adjusted parking brake. They are blowing smoke up your skirt saying it not designed right.

Hope some of that helps

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Spoke to the service guy again, he continues to maintain that he cannot adjust EITHER the brakes or the cables any further or the rear brakes will "start to drag".

I still don't have an explanation as to why there's such a difference in the number of clicks needed to set the parking brake so it won't roll.

I think I'm going to wind up taking an afternoon off and going down there so I can discuss the issue in person with this guy (and the service manager). I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but I can't see any other way at present.

Thanks for all the info guys, especially Wayne - I'll definitely have that part number in my pocket when I go down to the dealer.

Rob

 

[Tucker]

Watching this thread with great interest... please do let us know what happens ... I have the same problem.

I did my brakes yesterday, front and rear, and now my e-brake acts just like yours.

When I try to adjust it for less travel, the rear drums do drag. I haven't figured out (yet) how to fix it. I don't see any way short of reducing the travel on the shoes, and that doesn't seem to be adjustable (at least I haven't found out how to do it yet).

The e-brake does work just fine, but it takes more travel now than it used to and of course the cup holder is now in the way

 

[Eagle]

When I try to adjust it for less travel, the rear drums do drag. I haven't figured out (yet) how to fix it. I don't see any way short of reducing the travel on the shoes, and that doesn't seem to be adjustable (at least I haven't found out how to do it yet).

The e-brake does work just fine, but it takes more travel now than it used to and of course the cup holder is now in the way

You seem to be approaching it backward.

When doing the rear brakes, you should begin by backing off on the parking brake adjustment. WAAY off. Install the new brakes, and adjust with the star wheels until when rotating each wheel by hand you can feel/hear just a tiny bit of drag. That adjusts the brakes for proper driving operation.

NOW you adjust the parking brake cable. If you try to adjust the star wheels without first backing off on the parking brake adjustment, with new shoes you'll be adjusting the parking brake and not the road brakes.

 

[Tucker]

Thanks Eagle, I'll try that today. I'm sure I didn't back the e-brake off far enough before starting the job.

 

[Tucker]

Ok, that worked. This group is amazing. It took most of the afternoon and I should have done it right the first time, but live and learn, I s'pose. Thanks again!

 

[erikrs301]

BTW, where the hell does Chrysler get off charging $108 for a balsted disc rotor anyway!? And $158/ea. for the drums!?

Dude, what dealer are you using and where are you in NJ.
- Performance Friction Lifetime pad, $35
- Autozone basic rotors, $20/ea
- Basic brake shoes, $15
- Drum brake rebuild kit (springs 'n stuff), $10
- Drums, ? (not $158 though)
- Grease & Brake cleaner, $10

 

[HossHoffer]

Adjustment

Just one little note. In a couple of weeks go in and adjust your p-brakes again as the shoes will wear in just a bit to the new drums. Also Eagle and Martin are correct in that 4-5 clicks is the proper adjustment. A little drag in the brakes is normal and shouldn't be worried about (per ASE certification). sounds like you got it going the right direction now.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Re: Re: Parking Brake (semi-rant)

Dude, what dealer are you using and where are you in NJ.
- Performance Friction Lifetime pad, $35
- Autozone basic rotors, $20/ea
- Basic brake shoes, $15
- Drum brake rebuild kit (springs 'n stuff), $10
- Drums, ? (not $158 though)
- Grease & Brake cleaner, $10

The prices you quoted = exactly why I don't get it. Rest assured that Chrysler will get an earfull when they call to ask how the service was.

As to what dealer, I'd prefer to avoid mentioning that until I get things resolved - I'm going down there with it this afternoon so we can talk in person. I don't intend to back off untill I'm satisfied. One of the things that really gets me is that I've been going to this dealer for a couple of years now, and I've always been satisfied with their performance (including adjusting the parking brake!).

I will say that I'm in the same neck of the woods as Mike G (screen name: Mike In NJ).

With a little luck, I'll be ending this little mini-saga and providing a post-mortem on it tonight...

Rob

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Ok, final update

Ok, finally finished the 'discussion' with the dealer:

Got in the Jeep to go down, and decided to try the brake once more on teh driveway to double check my counts. Whaddya know, only 9 clicks to engage and hold nicely.

Wonderful, there goes my argument.

Talked to the dealer, and decided to give it another couple hundred miles - I'm getting a feeling that the shoes may not have been properly readiuses to the drums, and need a little more "settling in" time. Also, while the cables might be a little stretched, they don't seem to be bad enough to justify replacement at the moment.

Worst case, I'll adjust it down the road a bit - at least I have more than one click left after good engagement now, which makes me feel a little better.

I'm not delighted, but at least the whole thing is concluded for now, and I have gotten on to the next matter - fixing the A/C.

Thanks for listening.

Rob