Operation Overcompensation

[Mike L]

Well, when Ron and I were evaluating things, we had to either modify my prior long arm brackets which also hold the crossmember or make new mounts for two 21" mid arms sitting on the floor that we didn't end up using on the MJ. We decided to just use the 21" ones since it was a LOT easier to get going.

The uppers are in the factory mounts which have major reinforcement ever since I ripped one off out at Moab last year. :shocked: FYI my uppers are Tera adjustable UCAs that have been lengthened by 2.5" and on the axle, the UCA mount on to Johnny Joints.

Am I going to change it?

Dunno yet. All preliminary tests have given me no reason to need to. I seem to have a lot better articulation that I did with my long arms and I don't feel any particular reason to change anything. It seems to street ride great and on a set of 'test' stairs I have at work I can go higher (on the stairs) than I ever could with the long arms.
Time will tell.

-Avery

I wonder if some of that was due to the long lower arms and stock uppers and not being in the same rotation plane. I would think there would be some major bind issues with that type of setup that could cause an arm to be ripped out. :shocked: Looks good now.

-Mike

 

[cracker]

Here is some interesting math for you.

Last night I had my junk parked near an XJ with 215/75/16 tires and it was completely stock. Using the front side markers I stood 11" taller than that vehicle and I am on 37s.

Using 28.7" as the inch equivelent (and assuming it is accutate) and also assuming my 37s are true to size, that means I have gained 4.15" in tire height.

Subtract the 4.15" 'tire lift' from the 11" of actual height, leaves me with 6.85" of lift.

So for those of you who always ask me how much lift I have, and I never have an answer, it seems that I have 6.85" of lift.

 

[Captain Ron]

Cracker's going to overcompensate in CO, lest he be banned to that chapter. I've heard certain rumors coming straight from the top of .


Interesting debate on the effects or the effectiveness of long arms. I wish I could say that all the crap I spew about them comes from long hours of research, experience, engineering prowess, and calculations proving my stance.

Fact is, I know squat. I just think giving Arron endless hours of grief good sport.

But...

After working Avery's gear, and watching him in action more than once or twice, I though that the *tripod* operational aspect seemed a bit over the top. At least from the drivers comfort level.

It remains to be evaluated as to if the change is for the better from Avery's point of view, but from where I stand, read up...

1. Avery tended to be very tippy with the arm length/sparation ratio he was running, around 1.58:1. Avery can confirm the lengths, but his uppers arond 16.5", lowers were at the x-member (28" ???). Some of this had to do with his rear spring rates, but overall, from a spectators point of view, the front just didn't drop like, say for example (ya, ya, ya....) drop brackets. Now, this didn't seem to prevent him from gettting anywhere...

2. Automotive engineers have resources, means, and testing capabilities beyond what you and I will ever know. That geometry exists for alot of reasons... On road and off. Trying to beat those guys is a loser... Right from the start.

3. The factory ratios are pretty stable in the front.

4. The changes we made to Avery's lower arms just *looked right*. The geometry is very close to what I'm running in the front of the MJ.

5. Droop can be very overrated, but weight transfer is not. The initial "stair test" Avery did pretty much blows away his suspension system as it was.

6. I have a bunch of CAD renderings of radius features, intesects, tangent points, vectors, and more. It's all in 2D, from 3 views. Unless your an engineer, it'll never mean a thing to you. It doesn't to me. We eyeballed Avery's set up, I eyeballed mine with just a bit of input from my doodling, well, kind of.

7. Suspension bind means you screwed everything up. Period.

8. Lower is better.

9. Lighter is everything.

10. Where it is lighter is even erything more.

11. I'll stand by my long arm argument. Even more so since I threw some in the scrap bin.

--ron

 

[cracker]

1. Avery tended to be very tippy with the arm length/sparation ratio he was running, around 1.58:1. Avery can confirm the lengths, but his uppers arond 16.5", lowers were at the x-member (28" ???). Some of this had to do with his rear spring rates, but overall, from a spectators point of view, the front just didn't drop like, say for example (ya, ya, ya....) drop brackets. Now, this didn't seem to prevent him from gettting anywhere...

YEah. Actually, my lowers were 34" and my uppers were 17" so a 2:1. So they were 2:1. They never held me up from going anywhere and they proteced my front drive shaft at all times

The shorter arms seem to flex quite a bit better.

Ooof...........Colorado. We'll see. Got to call about the trailer later and explore the possibilities.

 

[Lincoln]

Ooof...........Colorado. We'll see. Got to call about the trailer later and explore the possibilities.

While your at it check on the price of tampons. We'll all know you've decided on a sex change if you don't show up.

 

[cracker]

While your at it check on the price of tampons. We'll all know you've decided on a sex change if you don't show up.

Well, I've already started the hormone therapy. I didn't realize I’d start developing a nice rack so quickly. God I hope I don't need any tampons while we're out on BOTW, cuz I'd hate to have to send you to town.

More details here

 

[99xjache]

New tow rig pics?

 

[Lincoln]

Well, I've already started the hormone therapy. I didn't realize I’d start developing a nice rack so quickly. God I hope I don't need any tampons while we're out on BOTW, cuz I'd hate to have to send you to town.

More details here

Damn you're sexy.

 

[cracker]

SUB OPERATION: RUBICON RUSH

BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!

BOTW was great. Other then killing the body (more) it held up really well. Only a couple of issues. I had a leaky rear axle seal that dumped fluid the whole trip. It was so bad I had to take the trailer I borrowed to a car wash and scrub it down.

The Deaver leafs I bought (used from Paul) had been re-done and adjusted for my weight (a lot heavier than Fishboy) hours before I left for BOTW. The flex AWESOME!!! I couldn't beleive how well they performed. Unfortunately they were probably a tad too soft for me and as the week of wheeling for 6 days went by, the leafs got softer and softer. The last day, on an obstical I wasn't doing very well on, I had axle wrap so bad I busted the pinion yolk on my rear HP60. It was at the end of the trail and I didn't have a spare (until now) so the group tugged me out. By the time I got back to California, the rear shackles were resting on the unibody and the vehicle was sitting really low in the back.

I did break the u-bolt staps on my front drive line the second day out what that was a 3 minute fix (I owe Rick a Spicer 1310 :shocked: ).

That was the extent of my breakage. Not too bad and I did get a bunch of door damage. My new rock sliders are set too far in to protect the doors so the doors got more damage. I did have a problem steering. Just would not turn most of the time.

Some of you know I had something going on with PSC Motor Sports. Actually what it is, is I ordered the Extreme Duty Box (ported for hydro-assist) and the pump to go with it, the P-pump for XJs along with the resevoir and all the other crap with it (hose, fittings, etc).

I immediately installed the box since my other one was leaking. I then start looking into the pump. My initial reaction was 'holy sh!t'. How the fawk is that supposed to work get in there and work perfectly. The resevoir needs to be higher than the pump AND the resevoir has to be completely vertical while the vehicle is flat (for reasons I have ZERO answer for). I was looking at it and I thought it was impossible for it to be perfect. I knew Lincoln, Sean Rose and others installed it on theirs and I had info on how they did it but still, something seemed fishy.

The next day I call PSC to inquire/complain. I find a new guy wroking there named Kelvin. Kelvin is a XJ owner and I think he occasionally posts here on Naxja but I cannot recall his user ID. Kelvin tried to install the same thing on his XJ with the help of the others at PSC. They too realized it wasn't perfect. The resevoir couln't be set up properly. Off to the drawing boards they went and started to re-design the XJ set up. This happened three weeks before BOTW so I ended up running the Xtreme Box with a stock (newly rebuilt) pump. My steering on the street was really sensitive and I had ZERO improvement off road (just as pathetic as before without the leaks).

Just two days ago I called over there to find out the progress and I got Kelvin back onto the phone. He said not to worry and he next day aired the new XJ pump kit.

Here is the kit:

Notice the weird bracket and the different pump (not the P).

I started to install it. Had to remove the ARB compressor

(nice and clean for you Grant )

I will be replacing the ARB with this and will be putting the ARB compressor in the F-250:

I then installed the bracket(s):

Then I places the resevoir in there. I lifted it as high as it would go before it could hit the hood when it was down.

It now sits quite a bit higher than the stock pump. I have plenty of room to insert the new air compressor in there as well. I just need to hook up a 100 amp relay and fab some brackets up to mount it.

Of course, I was reminded over and over again at BOTW that I didn't have full steer while atriculated. I have it when it is level (street driving) but not so much while articulated. So a new pitman arm is in call for. It is 1/2" longer than stock. I reamed it for the 3/4 or 1 ton GM TREs I run and painted it up and it is ready to go.

Tomorrow I am going to Currie to get a new axle seal and am hoping to put the axle all together and possible work on the pump. I am praying deaver gets my leafs done tomorrow as well and if so it'll be drivable this weekend. I need to get it all done in time for the Rubicon

More updates to come.

 

[gcurtis]

Hey Cracker, you ought to pressure wash that motor before the Rubi. You know what they say about clean private parts...

That is a cute lil compressor. What is the output, if you don't mind me asking? Are you going to use it to blow up balloons for the kiddies?

 

[Kejtar]

Are you going to use it to blow up balloons for the kiddies?

Grant, he'll be inflating something for himself all right

 

[Mike L]

Grant, he'll be inflating something for himself all right

I thought he would be inflating something for you, so you won't be alone in your tent at night on the Rubicon. :shocked:

-Mike

 

[cracker]

Hey Cracker, you ought to pressure wash that motor before the Rubi. You know what they say about clean private parts...

That is a cute lil compressor. What is the output, if you don't mind me asking? Are you going to use it to blow up balloons for the kiddies?

Tech Specs:

- 100% Continuous duty cycle
- 3/4 horsepower motor
- 30-amp draw at 35psi
- 40-amp draw at 150psi
- 4 cfm free flow rate
- 150psi max working pressure
- Can be mounted upside down
- 14" long, 6" wide, 9", tall


It is a bit smaller than the Oasis with it only being 9" high verses 14" high on the OASIS.

It was about 10 posts back

I used Goats and it pumped pretty well.

Here is a question for you, do you think I'll need a small resevoir on it for the ARB locker or do you think there will be enough volume in the line (fittings and what not) to be enough?

 

[Kejtar]

I thought he would be inflating something for you, so you won't be alone in your tent at night on the Rubicon. :shocked:

-Mike

I don't need nothing inflatable

 

[Mike L]

I don't need nothing inflatable

I forgot you were one of the first "Fleshlight" customers. :shocked:

-Mike

 

[Paul S]

Re: SUB OPERATION: RUBICON RUSH

BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!

BOTW was great. Other then killing the body (more) it held up really well. Only a couple of issues. I had a leaky rear axle seal that dumped fluid the whole trip. It was so bad I had to take the trailer I borrowed to a car wash and scrub it down.

The Deaver leafs I bought (used from Paul) had been re-done and adjusted for my weight (a lot heavier than Fishboy) hours before I left for BOTW. The flex AWESOME!!! I couldn't beleive how well they performed. Unfortunately they were probably a tad too soft for me and as the week of wheeling for 6 days went by, the leafs got softer and softer. The last day, on an obstical I wasn't doing very well on, I had axle wrap so bad I busted the pinion yolk on my rear HP60. It was at the end of the trail and I didn't have a spare (until now) so the group tugged me out. By the time I got back to California, the rear shackles were resting on the unibody and the vehicle was sitting really low in the back.

I did break the u-bolt staps on my front drive line the second day out what that was a 3 minute fix (I owe Rick a Spicer 1310 :shocked: ).

That was the extent of my breakage. Not too bad and I did get a bunch of door damage. My new rock sliders are set too far in to protect the doors so the doors got more damage. I did have a problem steering. Just would not turn most of the time.

Some of you know I had something going on with PSC Motor Sports. Actually what it is, is I ordered the Extreme Duty Box (ported for hydro-assist) and the pump to go with it, the P-pump for XJs along with the resevoir and all the other crap with it (hose, fittings, etc).

I immediately installed the box since my other one was leaking. I then start looking into the pump. My initial reaction was 'holy sh!t'. How the fawk is that supposed to work get in there and work perfectly. The resevoir needs to be higher than the pump AND the resevoir has to be completely vertical while the vehicle is flat (for reasons I have ZERO answer for). I was looking at it and I thought it was impossible for it to be perfect. I knew Lincoln, Sean Rose and others installed it on theirs and I had info on how they did it but still, something seemed fishy.

The next day I call PSC to inquire/complain. I find a new guy wroking there named Kelvin. Kelvin is a XJ owner and I think he occasionally posts here on Naxja but I cannot recall his user ID. Kelvin tried to install the same thing on his XJ with the help of the others at PSC. They too realized it wasn't perfect. The resevoir couln't be set up properly. Off to the drawing boards they went and started to re-design the XJ set up. This happened three weeks before BOTW so I ended up running the Xtreme Box with a stock (newly rebuilt) pump. My steering on the street was really sensitive and I had ZERO improvement off road (just as pathetic as before without the leaks).

Just two days ago I called over there to find out the progress and I got Kelvin back onto the phone. He said not to worry and he next day aired the new XJ pump kit.

Here is the kit:

Is that an 'N' pump?

Fishboy

 

[gcurtis]

Cracker, while the solenoids lock pressure just past them to lock the ARB's, I'd add, in line, a small tank (PVC???) so that you didn't have to keep cycling the compressor.

While it only takes a little bit of air to lock the ARB's, and I tend to only use mine when in a jam, I'd prefer to inflate a tank and use that for most of the day instead of constantly running a compressor. Better for the compressor, dontcha know.

Also, add a pressure switch or air guage so that you have an idea of pressure in your tank while wheeling. Very helpful to know if you have enough to lock the lockers. A pressure switch in a cheapo China Freight manifold would handle the problem. Just wire it into your compressor and switch and you'd have constant pressure at X psi.

 

[Eddie G.]

There is another compressor out there (outback or something). I believe Eddie G has one. It may be a little smaller.

The one I have is something like this, I think. Haven't had a chance to mount it yet, but it puts out a good amount of air.

http://cgi.ebay.com/12v-1-5-gal-air...ryZ11751QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Lincoln]

Re: SUB OPERATION: RUBICON RUSH

Is that an 'N' pump?

Fishboy

Looks like the direct fit pump in the pic, whichever one that is. The P style looks much different on the back side even without the can. Though it does look like it uses the same offset bracket that the P pump needs.

My res mount isn't as purdy but I seems to fit a little easier. I still have the washer fluid res where the PSC mount goes. That style of pump would be easier to get a drop feed. I haven't had any problems with mine and the fitting on top of the pump ends up pointing up slightly causing it to have even more of an up travel. I figured if I had problems I could change the index of the pump and get the fitting directly on top.

 

[Jump This]

I don't need nothing inflatable

Hes got Rosy and her five sisters!