Oil Seals leaking after swap..."fixed" several times

[Char-Broil]

Alright, so I just installed my S-10 bastard pack springs and D44 with disc conversion into my 94. The axle is from a cherokee, and the disc conversion is done to spec from jeepin.com's writup. Everything works great, except I can't keep oil in the rear. I put it together the first time using the old seals and, no big suprise, they spewed oil like crazy. So I pulled it apart again, replaced bearings and seals, and put it back together. I did not put any RTV on the seals, and they leaked just as bad as the old ones did. I pulled it apart again yesterday and RTV'd the outside of the seals (where they contact the axle tube.) I also put some RVT on the vertical mounting surface of the axle so there would be some RVT between the axle and the disc bracket. It leaks almost as bad now as it did both other times. yes, I have the bearing retainer plates facing the right direction...I oiled the inside of the seals before I slid them onto the axle, and I sanded the axle where the seal rides with some fine grit sand paper before I installed them too. When I pulled it apart last time everything looked fine, no damage to the seals. I can try doing new seals, but of course, that means having the bearings pressed off then on again, and all that. Anything simple I'm doing wrong? Possible I have the thing too full or something? It was filled to just below the plug (maybe 1/4" below). I am really at a loss and I don't want to tear this thing apart again until I know it will be fixed when I put it back together. thanks.

 

[Char-Broil]

Any ideas at all? Even the simplest idea would help because I am out of them...Thanks

 

[Mercenary]

Is it leaking where the seal meets the sealing surface or from around the seal itself? From your description I cannot tell where the leak is. What you may want to try is to install a speedy-sleeve on the axle where the seal usually rides. That way the sealing surface is brand new and there will be no hidden seal grooves that allow leakage.

Perhaps the seals are the wrong size for the application. I'm just guessing at this point.

 

[Char-Broil]

I am pretty sure that the seal is leaking around the axle itself, not the housing, as I have put rtv around the outside (seal to axle housing tube) of the seal and it did not even slow down the leak. is it possible that maybe I got axle seals for a 87 cherokee with d44, but the axle shafts are from a different year and thus, ever so slightly smaller? How does the speedy sleves thing work and where do I get them? thanks

 

[Mercenary]

Providing that you have the correct sized seal for the application, the speedy sleeve is a round band of hardened metal that would go onto the axle in this application. It would sit where the seal lip would normally contact the axle. The speedy sleeve itself is just a few thou larger diameter than the axle diameter and slips on tight forming a brand new surface for the seal lip to ride on. There isn't enough room beneath the sleeve for oil to escape by because of the tight fit.

Your local autoparts store should be able to show you what I mean....

Here is a web site that describes what I am talking about in greater detail

www.lidering.com/catal/spsi.htm

 

[muduck18]

I assume I will have to press off the bearings and all when I do the speedy sleeve? While I am at it, would inner seals be a good thing to replace? If the inner seal is destroyed, is it possible that I am getting a "flood" of oil to my outter seals, causing the leakage? I am at a friend's house right now, and I have been parked here for about an hour, after a 15 minute drive and there is a puddle of oil coming from under my rear tire that is about twice the size of my 31. The jeep is tilted very slightly to the right parked in his driveway...This seems a like a lot of oil to be leaking and very quickly. thanks again for the help. :repair:

 

[Char-Broil]

I didn't realize it, but i was on my buddies computer and it auto logged me in as him...so the above post was actually me, to clear up any confusion.

 

[Mercenary]

No doubt your inner seal is shot as well. Might be well worth your while to go through your entire axle and replace all the seals anyway. Sounds like a big job I know, but the peace of mind at the end of it all will be well worth it.

You might also want to 'mike' the axle shafts themselves to see just how much they are under sized. Then compare the size of your axle shaft to the size of original OEM axles. Double and triple check the size of the seals again before installing them. I know this all sounds basic, but the time you put in now will be worth it in the end.

 

[Char-Broil]

so a guy who has done the disc swap and all with this d44 rear told me that he's pretty sure there are no inner seals on the xj 44. He gave me the P/N of the seals he used and they are 18731. go figure, those are the cheaper ones i bought and decided not to go with. :banghead: i am so mad at myself for going with the more expensive seals. had i tried to go frivilous i would have come out on top for once. i'm going to take the shafts to napa soon and have them swap out teh seals and do speedy sleeves while i'm at it if they have them. it's going in right this time...it's got to. thanks for your help man, i'll put a victory post up when it's fixed

 

[Mercenary]

I would check that info about not having no inner seals on the 44. I could be wrong, but I think most axles have inner and outer oil seals. You also might be having issues with the bearing seats being worn causing the axle shaft to ride lower than usual. That would make the seal itself useless.

 

[langer1]

so a guy who has done the disc swap and all with this d44 rear told me that he's pretty sure there are no inner seals on the xj 44. He gave me the P/N of the seals he used and they are 18731. go figure, those are the cheaper ones i bought and decided not to go with. :banghead: i am so mad at myself for going with the more expensive seals. had i tried to go frivilous i would have come out on top for once. i'm going to take the shafts to napa soon and have them swap out teh seals and do speedy sleeves while i'm at it if they have them. it's going in right this time...it's got to. thanks for your help man, i'll put a victory post up when it's fixed

He is wrong, there are both inner and outer seals on all d44's.

 

[Char-Broil]

I'll pick up some inner seals then...does it just slip around the shaft like an o-ring? in the diagram you showed it looks like a huge donut around the axle shaft somewhere between the pumpkin and the bearing...is that right? if there is supposed to be something on the axle like that i can tell you for sure there is nothing on mine. also, i'm not sure what "bearing seats" would be exactly. if you are talking about the outter bearing race that you install into the axle tube, then it can't be that because it is brand new. if you are talking about the axle tube itself, i dont think that could be it because they are perfectly round and the new races i just mentioned installed cleanly and easily (a tight fit but not hard to tap in). the bearing "seat" on the shaft was fine too, no excessive wear there. and there is no groove or real wear spot on the shaft from the old seal. i will probably speedy sleeve it just to be on the safe side tho. so wednesday it is going to be my project to: replace inner seal, replace new correct seals with speedy sleeves, and put the whole thing back together and then drive jeep off quarry ledge if it still leaks.

 

[langer1]

They don't go on the axle. They are pressed into the axle tube, before the bearing cup. There metal and rubber and look like this.

 

[Char-Broil]

ok i definately don't have those in there. i will pick them up today and see what they do for me then. good thing i didnt return the slide hammer to my mechanic friend! thanks again all :speepin: :wave:

 

[muduck18]

Can Any one help by pointing MuddyGP to more of the diagrams like Langer1 Has? and maybe part numbers for those inner seals? I have been in and out helping him when i get the chance, and this will be the 4th time the axle comes apart... so it would be nice to have all the help we can get this go around...

 

[langer1]

Spicer seal kit 76267X is the kit for one Axle. Inner and outer seal.

 

[Char-Broil]

Got those seals, but they just don't install into my axle. there is no place for them, where they are tight on the axle shaft, there is no corresponding area in the axle tube for them to press in. there's no spot at all for inner seals unless they are all teh way in at the pumkin maybe. i believe i have found the root of my problem, however. the seals were mangled by the retainer plates being put in. because it is the disc conversion, the plates push into the seal, and i torked them down unevenly at first which caused them to get messed up. i can see this now that i have it all apart, and i will have to have new seals put on and the bearings pressed on and off tomorrow. hopefully that takes care of it. i'll prolly do the speedy sleeves just to eliminate that variable while i'm at it. i do not want to pull this thing apart again unless it involves lower gears or a locker....thanks for the help guys..you'll know if i have it fixed soon or not, cuz if i dont there will be a lot of #$!@*#! going on if its not...

 

[Char-Broil]

:victorydance: it's fixed! i drove it a lot today and it has been dry all day. got new seals in and was more careful putting it all together and it works fine. thanks for the help. im glad to have that off my mind now!