Occupy Wall Street

[urban yan]

It's a fragmented, leaderless, and loosely based organization.
Did you honestly expect coherence?

More to the point, I would imagine that the vast majority of the –long-term- protestors are young folks with time to spare.
People that have the most to gain from this debate are too busy working to pay their bills.... they hardly have time to participate which is a real shame.

 

[XJEEPER]

It's always the same, tired socialist/marxist theme with this guy. Someone should build a time machine and send him back to the 50s - the pinnacle of communist paranoia.

Just once, it would nice to talk about social justice without it turning into some socialist plot to destroy America.

Truth has no agenda.

I don't have to make up anything, just listen to the words of those in the street and organizations supporting the OWS movement. It's not a new plan and it is functioning by design.

Ridiculing me for bringing this info to the surface is #5 Rules for Radicals. Well played, Saul Alinsky would be proud.

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families – more than seventy million people – whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year [in 1971]. They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default."

"The organizer must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a situation. The first step in community organization is community disorganization."


Hardly leaderless.......

AFL-CIO
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/187765-unions-back-occupy-wall-street-movement

Communist Party USA
http://www.yclusa.org/article/articleview/1994/1/6/

SEIU
http://www.seiu.org/2011/10/seius-statement-to-americans-occupying-wall-street.php

Democratic Socialist of America
http://talkingunion.wordpress.com/

Moveon.Org
http://front.moveon.org/

Bill Ayers, convicted Weather Underground Organization terrorist bomber of the White House, Pentagon and NYPD offices is in full support of the OWS movement.


"We need a revolutionary communist party in order to lead the struggle, give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society."
Bill Ayers

"Our job is to tap the discontent seething in many sectors of the population, to find allies everywhere people are hungry or angry, to mobilize poor and working people against imperialism."
Bill Ayers

"Socialism is the total opposite of capitalism/imperialism. It is the rejection of empire and white supremacy. Socialism is the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and the eradication of the social system based on profit."
Bill Ayers

"We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men, underground in the United States."
Bill Ayers

By their fruits, ye shall know them

atriot: eace:

 

[urban yan]

Can I call it or what.

The difference is that your list is worded in a polarizing manor that shows contempt for the movement. Next, I imagine, you'll use that list as a springboard for some marxist/socialist bullshit... which, in turn, will create another muddied argument. The debate will be rendered useless, and nothing will get done.

 

[XJEEPER]

Welcome to Oct 7th, Captain Obvious.

 

[Boatwrench]

So this morning at 0300 San Jose PD swooped into the OWS encampment and arrested the people peacefully sleeping. The protestors were booked into Santa Clara County jail, not cited and released as most protests are handled.

Last week the SWAP teams in the San Jose area were on a man-hunt for a work-place shooter. They were dressed in desert cammies, some department even had the digital ones. The militarization of our police departments are getting scary. In each scenario above the police were dealing with US citizens, What's next? (yes, I know one was armed and dangerous, but com'on cammies?)

Raiding a sleeping encampment at night or just before dawn is a tactic from the Indian Campaigns of the late 1800's by the US MILITARY.

More recently, the US Military was used to raid an encampment on the Washington mall of veteran's fighting for their benefits that were being denied. Early 1900's.

Four dead in Ohio ring a bell?

Let's go back over 200 years, a nervous British soldier fired on protestors in Boston. The 'mob' was protesting the government imposing taxes.


It is no secret I support OWS, but what is more concerning to me than the investment firms getting bailed out and the American public being sold out, is the tactics employed by our police forces. What has happened to our Constitution?

 

[Manic Mechanic]

What has happened to our Constitution?

Our Constitution has essentially been trampled to death by those rushing to take power and serve themselves.

I may not support every idea and action of OWS, but the fact remains, it is their right to lawfully protest. The fact that permits are needed in order to protest is just stupid. I'm not sure why the OWS protestors were rounded up in San Jose, but if it was regarding a permit or trespassing on city property (not sure how any citizen can be charged with trespassing in a city park), then it is a pretty sad day in America. If there is a ordinance against camping in a park, police force isn't required. Just fine each and every person per night they are camping. Done deal. Now, if the protestors were a large, unruly, violent mob then I can see using raid/assualt tactics to disband them. But so far, I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

-Eric

 

[XJEEPER]

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...oyees-are-living-the-high-life-at our-expense

Interesting stats............

#1 When you total up all compensation (including health care and benefits), the average income for a federal worker in the Washington D.C. area last year was $126,369.

#2 In 2005, 7420 federal workers were making $150,000 or more per year. In 2010, a whopping 82,034 federal workers were making $150,000 or more per year. That is more than a tenfold increase in just five years.

#3 In 2005, the U.S. Department of Defense had just nine civilians earning $170,000 or more. When Barack Obama took office, the U.S. Department of Defense had 214 civilians earning $170,000 or more. In June 2010, the U.S. Department of Defense had 994 civilians earning $170,000 or more.

#4 Last year, federal employees "earned" approximately 447 billion dollars in total compensation.

#5 According to a study by the Heritage Foundation, federal workers earn 30 to 40 percent more money on average than their counterparts in the private sector.

#6 Today, one out of every 12 people living in Washington D.C. is a lawyer. In New York City, only one out of every 123 residents is a lawyer.

#7 More than 50 percent of the members of the U.S. Congress are millionaires.

#8 The median wealth of a U.S. Senator in 2009 was 2.38 million dollars.

#9 Insider trading is perfectly legal for members of the U.S. Congress - and they refuse to pass a law that would change that.

#10 The percentage of millionaires in Congress is more than 50 times higher than the percentage of millionaires in the general population.

 

[ocean_jet]

#7 More than 50 percent of the members of the U.S. Congress are millionaires.

#8 The median wealth of a U.S. Senator in 2009 was 2.38 million dollars.

#9 Insider trading is perfectly legal for members of the U.S. Congress - and they refuse to pass a law that would change that.

#10 The percentage of millionaires in Congress is more than 50 times higher than the percentage of millionaires in the general population.

Of the super rich, by the super rich, FOR the super rich.


No wonder populist movements like tea-party and OWS are popping up...

 

[H8PVMT]

This thread has officially caused me to vomit

And since my vomit was made from equal parts of food/beer I have had today that makes this thread communist, And i read on the internet Hitler liked parks so people organizing in parks are all Nazi's

And I believe everything I read on websites as long as they feed my paranoia

 

[kastein]

these XXXXers need to stop protesting, it screws with traffic horribly and NYC is bad enough already. They are interfering with my commute :twak:

 

[urban yan]

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...oyees-are-living-the-high-life-at our-expense

Interesting stats............

Wait? What? I thought you were against the OWS movement?


Anywho, I found this interesting
Between 1988-2008 90% of Americans' Income Down by .01%, Richest 1% Up by 33%

 

[kastein]

down by .01% and up by 33%?

So you're saying this is a case of 'the rich get richer and the poor get the same-er"?

 

[Tom R.]

The CNS News article was poorly researched and heavily biased.

Anyone who's taken a stats class knows how easy it is to present "facts" to support a particular view. That said, Federal employees in the D.C. area on average earn more than their (federal) peers across the enterprise because of the locality pay. After all, it's a very expensive area. It's also the seat of the federal government, so naturally one must consider that it's top heavy with senior leaders.

Do they earn more than their private sector counterparts? Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on the job and their "rank." The higher one goes, the wider the gap between the two (in the private sector's favor). A janitor or secretary generally makes more in federal service, but a top level director or department head makes far, far less than their private sector peers. People in my field can make $50K more in the private sector. It just depends.

The article reports that "a college-educated, entry-level GS 7 position earns an average of $42,209 at step one." Wrong! They used a figure based on one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. The base pay for GS-7, Step 1, is $33,979. To suggest this is an "average" salary at step one is beyond misleading. Oh, this is for a degreed professional. That's some serious money right there!

The $126,369 total compensation figure is also misleading. Included in this figure is compensation that is paid to benefit retirees, not just for current workers. Military pay was also conveniently left out in the calculation because, well, it would reduce the final result further and lose the desired impact. I always prefer an apples to apples comparison: consider that the average federal civilian worker is better educated, more experienced, older, and more likely to have management or professional responsibilities than the average private worker. According to OPM in a 2009 report, they found that federal workers were paid on average 22.13% less than their private-sector counterparts. The gap increased to 24 percent in 2010. Of course, this didn't consider benefits, so it's slightly misleading as well.

I know why so many federal workers make $170K or more: it's all of those damn czars appointed by the Prez.

 

[Beezil]

Similarly, this issue is one that we don't know how to handle on our humble XJ forum.
We are immediately polarized, left VS right, Urban Yan VS XJEEPER.

Thats polarizing

 

[urban yan]

I consider myself a centrist.
Than again, I'm a Canuck; we have more than 2 parties, so that's why we can actually get stuff done in parliament.

 

[XJEEPER]

Wait? What? I thought you were against the OWS movement?

Iran has joined OWS, now all they need is China, Venezuela, Cuba and No Korea. I'm all for the movement......for a variety of reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ilFMHRll5QA

 

[urban yan]

Are you bi-polar?

 

[XJEEPER]

Nope, American.

 

[urban yan]

Yup, bi-polar.

 

[XJEEPER]

I thought it was time for the trolls up north to hibernate..........