Occupy Wall Street
- Thread starter XJLI
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kndrewa
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- Vancouver British Columbia
I agree completely.
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- Wasatch Range
99% is a flawed statistic.....what a great thing to build a campaign upon.
From anchor Diane Sawyer on the Monday, October 10 World News on ABC:
Speaking of Wall Street, we thought we’d bring you up to date on those protesters, the Occupy Wall Street movement. As of tonight, it has spread to more than 250 American cities, more than a thousand countries -- every continent but Antarctica.
I thought there were about 195 countries in the world.......maybe Di is counting the countries inside the Earth, you know.......the ones that, according to Al Gore, are millions of degrees?
Seems like truth and facts aren't relevant in this movement.
From anchor Diane Sawyer on the Monday, October 10 World News on ABC:
Speaking of Wall Street, we thought we’d bring you up to date on those protesters, the Occupy Wall Street movement. As of tonight, it has spread to more than 250 American cities, more than a thousand countries -- every continent but Antarctica.
I thought there were about 195 countries in the world.......maybe Di is counting the countries inside the Earth, you know.......the ones that, according to Al Gore, are millions of degrees?
Seems like truth and facts aren't relevant in this movement.
- Location
- Central Maine
x1000
and considering she isn't part of the protests it's also not related to the arguements
- Location
- Wasatch Range
Never a sarcasm emoticon when you need one.......
On the topic of valild points, I'd rather look at the well thought out comments made by the actual protesters in the streets, who state that the reasons they are involved in the movement is because they want to bring an end to capitalism and replace it with socialism/communism, do away with all banks and corporations, push healthcare and college education as a government provided human right.......
Wonder if there are any history majors in the group?
99% of the protesters may want these things, but they do not represent the views and opinions of 99% of the America public.
On the topic of valild points, I'd rather look at the well thought out comments made by the actual protesters in the streets, who state that the reasons they are involved in the movement is because they want to bring an end to capitalism and replace it with socialism/communism, do away with all banks and corporations, push healthcare and college education as a government provided human right.......
Wonder if there are any history majors in the group?
99% of the protesters may want these things, but they do not represent the views and opinions of 99% of the America public.
souske
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- The land of competition
XJLI
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- Long Island, NY
^^that was good :laugh:
Darky
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- 29 Palms, CA
[Tin foil hat on]
Ok, let's assume OWS has a worthwhile message about corporations vs democracy. I'm not going to weigh in on either side. Under this assumption, let's look at all the competing viewpoints trying to take their spot light. Unions, socialists, etc. If OWS is legit and has a good message that the majority of Americans can get behind, and its against the corporations paying off politicians, and against the idea that millionaires somehow represent the common folk, and against the idea that these millionaires in office somehow know more about our needs than we do, this is the type of movement that could frighten the people in charge. Moreso than the Tea Party even. Look what happened to the Tea Party: they started off alright, talking about corporate responsibility, fiscal responisibility in the gov't, small gov't with minimal intrusion into our personal lives, etc. This obviously would go against the status quo. It would take power from gov't and from corporations. But, the Tea Party quickly became a laughing stock thanks to crazies like Christine O'Donnel (or whatever the crazy former witch, now Christian chick's name is), Michelle Bachman, racists, extremists who moved in and used the Tea Party's spotlight to spout their own views. I personally believe our gov't isn't above infilitrating upstart movements that have the potential of changing the accepted order with extreme voices and shifting the focus away from the core of the group and out to the crazies.
This isn't a conservative vs liberal thing. This is a politicians who want to stay in power and keep getting ridiculous pay offs, pay checks, and pensions vs average Americans (even some wealthy) who want fair representation thing.
[/tin foil hat off]
Manic Mechanic
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- Fort Worth-less, Tx
westvirginia24976
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- west virginia
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- Rainy side of Washington
http://www.joshuakennon.com/the-sec...he-struggle-is-not-between-the-rich-and-poor/
I found this an extremely interesting read.
I found this an extremely interesting read.
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- Wasatch Range
Very insightful article........and Drucker nails the exact behavior that we are witnessing real-time.
"For these folks, their goals are hopeless until they realize we have entered a third industrial revolution that might as well be called the knowledge economy. Without that realization, they can’t solve their plight because they don’t understand the core, root cause of the struggle in which they are engaged. If anything, they threaten to attempt to tear down the very institutions that might, properly harnessed, save them."
"The people who are part of the “we are the 99%” movement are not bad people. But their movement is misnamed. They are not representative of the 99%; they are disproportionately made up of the bottom 20%."
"One possibility is that the manual workers demand more benefits including unemployment benefits, retirement benefits, and other “transfer” payments that come directly out of the paycheck of knowledge workers in the form of taxes."
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- Wasatch Range
Gotta read this one too.......
http://www.joshuakennon.com/mental-model-the-dunning–kruger-effect/
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the perverse situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence: because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. “Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.”
http://www.joshuakennon.com/mental-model-the-dunning–kruger-effect/
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the perverse situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence: because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. “Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.”
kndrewa
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- Vancouver British Columbia
Can we all agree that corporate funding and corruption exist in American government?
The people with the fattest wallets get their agendas pushed, and their taxes reduced.
I think this is the key thing that needs to be changed in order to have an honest democracy.
The people with the fattest wallets get their agendas pushed, and their taxes reduced.
I think this is the key thing that needs to be changed in order to have an honest democracy.
- Location
- Rainy side of Washington
we agree on all but the last word.
This is a federal constitutional republic, not a democracy.
Miller88
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- Syracuse NY
According to what the 'occupiers' up here are trying to get at, we're a Corporatocracy.
The 'occupy syracuse' thing seems to be a complete joke. It's just SU kids (the kids of the 1%) in their designer clothes and Lexuses complaining how "it isn't fair".
They're right, life isn't fair ... that just doesn't apply to them.
Just because something does not affect you directly doesn't mean you should just dismiss it...
- Location
- Southern Maryland
A corporation is a voluntary association of individuals. It's the same as a voluntary labor union, or a voluntary group like the Sierra Club or your local jeep club. The members of these groups get to express ideas and argue on behalf of their members... Is there a specific subset of corporation that you want to restrict?
The problem we have today isn't with corporations, it's with corporatism. It's not that wal-mart and bofa run the government, it's the government runs them both, IE tells them what prices they can charge and then uses moneytary policy to subsidize the dictat. Near as I can tell the OWS people want more of that not less
True, but let's keep in mind that the last time we trivialized the working class we had the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, and the American Revolution (to a certain extent) – ie revolutions stemming from top-heavy societies. Heck, even Hitler’s rise stems from economic woes. Point is you can’t keep taking a big steamy dump on the working/manual class without certain repercussions.
If the general consensus is that the manual class is obsolete in light of evolving economics than it’s time to concede that this, obsolete, class needs rehabilitation back into the new society. For example, we shouldn’t focus on the dumb kid who put his mother in debt attaining a useless degree; we should focus on ways to steer folks like that into the right Post-Secondary disciplines in the first place. We shouldn’t focus on the divide between the hardworking “knowledge workers” versus the hardworking “manual workers”; we should focus on ways to provide both classes with equal opportunities for upward mobility. We shouldn’t try to extinguish greed, but we shouldn’t bail out the greedy either.
Personally, I think that we’ve created a society with safety nets for the greedy – built on the backs of the rest (manual and knowledge class alike). That should be the core focus of this debate.
