My Senior Project

[redrider2911]

Fabricated everything myself. Whishbone 3-link, bottom long arms, drop t-case x member. 8 in lift on 33's

I measured my passenger tire about 33 in. off the ground. Is that pretty good?

Im going to cut the fenders and maybe throw some bushwackers on so i can fit 35's no problem.

I need longer brake lines then maybe i can get some more flex

I just like this pictures because of the sign in the background

What do u think? comments welcome.

 

[rpraterxj]

Great start!

Quick thing for the brake line - drill a hole and straighten the hard line. You will get another 2 to 3 inches out of it.

Get some rock rails, tow points, , and matching spare (tire size). And trim the fenders

If you want to go to 35's, build the axles for 35's! Gear it correctly, and get alloy shafts. Look for different housings as well - at a minimum a HP D30 and D44.

Good Luck!

 

[casm]

Fix the headlight

 

[GrimmJeeper]

is that a 3 link setup? id like to see a writeup lookin good but the LAs look a little thin :dunno: and rob is right lower the hardline for more brake line extension.

 

[POSJ]

Take more pics of the 3 link, like the joints and the arms and such please. Also you don't want much more flex, that coil is about to drop, get a limiting strap and you are good.

 

[POSJ]

Also look into upgrading your steering.

 

[anodyne33]

Are your LCAs bolted to the crossmember and then bolted to the subframe in the 4 stock bolt locations?

 

[vetteboy]

Not a bad start. There's been much worse on here before.

Just a few questions though...

In your research for this project, why did you choose to do a wishbone setup but keep the mechanical steering linkage? How's the bumpsteer with that?

Do you plan to reinforce the stock upper arm mounts on the frame at all, since they're now seeing all the side loads from the axle in addition to just the tensile force they were designed for?

How's the caster and pinion angle change over the range of travel? Seems like you'd run into some interesting situations at full stuff & droop with the big difference in arm length.

What's the misalignment & shank size of the heim joint at the peak of the wishbone?

Got any more pics of the crossmember?

 

[jerseyjeep01]

I like the stance at 8" and 33's

 

[redrider2911]

thanks for the comments guys, now ill answer some questions...
I've already trimmed the fenders and dropped the brake line, working on axles before rails, exo cage, ect. Just got to decide on what im doing... I'm thinks dana 44hp front and either a dana 44hp rear or a frod 9 in.

For the headlight, im waiting on a wagoneer parts jeep that i found but havnt been able to get in contact with the owner, and no i dont want to convert to the 2 headlight, it kind of makes it unique.

Yea, its a 3 link. i don't have as much of a write up but more like alot of cad drawings. I'll find a way to post them. When i built the LA's i didnt think of the force of dropping down on things (ike a fallen tree that i recently bent my passenger side on and broke a heim joint), instead i was thinking forward and backward movement. I know, big mistake, im working on that.

I'll borrow a friends camera and take a few more detailed pics.

I was going to go high steer and make my own tie rods when i build my front axle because, yes vette boy, my bump steer is horrible. i didnt adress that problem cuz i was running out of money. eventually i want to go to hyraulic ram steering.

I am actually going to probably cut off the old lower mounts that i used for the new uppers and rebuild them because i didnt realize till later that they r not square to the unibody causing me to wear out my polyurethane bushing on that end.

the caster and pinion angles didnt seem to bad on my cad drawing when i figured out where it would sit through the travel and i havnt had any problems with it.

its a 3/4 in rod end with i believe an 18 degree misalighnment. i know i need to put it on tapered bearings.

ill take some pics of the crossmember, i actually ended up dropping my t case too far though. yea the x member is bolted to the original holes with the LA's bolted to it. i plan on widening the mounting surface and drill and tap more holes unless someone has a better idea.

wow thats alot of typing....

 

[sheeks175]

Thats tight man! Im a senior.. or was i just graduated! Im about to post up some pics of it. I wish I built my own long arms. Rustys are kind of gay. Later!

 

[ktm racer 419]

you will always have bumpsteer if you keep steering linkages in there with a wishbone setup.

and those lower arms and mounts look like rock magnets (and weak rock magnets)

 

[redrider2911]

Yea, that's why i want to go to hydraulic steering unless there is another/cheaper way. Those LCA's to tend to atract rocks it seems like even though I've only broken them once. That is only because I take it easy though. I'm going to move up to 1 3/4 solid stock with 3/4 heim joints or johnny joints. Then hopefully they might act like rock sliders. lol Unless there is another way. I don't want to bend them up out of the way because then they will buckle when I slam on the brakes. But yea, they are weak they are only made out of 1 3/8 solid and 1/2 in heim joints. SShh, don't tell anyone, I already felt stupid right after I took the time to make them. Pretty simple though, buy the round stock, cut it to the desired length, drill and tap the ends, and just thead in some new rod ends.

 

[ktm racer 419]

i would use larger than 3/4" if i was you

 

[redrider2911]

well what would you recommend? i really don't feel like them breaking on me because of a bad judgment call.

 

[vetteboy]

Well, to start off, I applaud you for acknowledging the faults in your design. Most guys who fab long arms etc. on here just post some pics of something that obviously has some revision needed, but you never hear from them again. So props on that for sure.

With a wishbone setup you will NEVER be bumpsteer-free with a mechanical steering linkage, unless you configure the steering like the older push/pull Chevy front ends. And if you do that then your steering will become the limit to your articulation very quickly.

So why are you so opposed to running a panhard in the front? A well-thought-out 3-link front with a panhard (no wishbone, just three straight links and a trackbar) will experience no binding at all during flex, and will also be totally compatible with a mechanical linkage. For what you're running as far as tires and terrain, full hydro steering is a really expensive bandaid at best. If you're going to swap a new axle under it anyway, definitely give some though towards a more traditional front-end design.

The problem that you're having with the heims is that right now, ALL of the side loading from the axle (turning, steering, off-camber, etc) is being handled by that single heim joint. And heims are designed to be loaded almost entirely in an axial direction. The way you're loading that joint is placing the whole load on the shank, which can lead to fatigue and failure as you've seen already. Plus your articulation is limited to the range of movement of that single joint, and the loading situation gets even worse as things get all twisted up. This is just the nature of a 3-link wishbone setup and if you intend on keeping this, your best bet is to use the largest joint you can possibly find...and even then, it's still not loaded "properly".

As for the crossmember...DEFINITELY do something else there. The nuts in the frame rail are tack-welded to the inside of the formed sheetmetal structure. They're meant to support the weight of the trans and some torsion from the trans mount, and that's about it. One common solution is to sleeve the frame rails with some thicker material and make some additional provisions for mounting the crossmember etc. on that. If you search in the advanced fab section of this site there are many threads about how people have reinforced that area of the frame for mounting suspension links to.

If you're interested I can post some pics of how I did mine; however a lot of it might be irrelevant if you intend on keeping the interior mostly stock.

 

[redrider2911]

well thanks for the compliment man. This might sound stupid but I really like the wishbone because it's something that you don't see everyday. If I can keep it and last long then I would love to. I really don't mind the bumpsteer that much you kind of get used to it. The only problem is I have to explain it to someone before they ever drive it.

I have never actually broken the 3/4 heim joint on the tip of the wishbone which kind of suprised me because I've read about it happening alot. Ok story time. I built some sway bar quick disconnects and took it for a drive to see how it handled. Well it was in the winter and I decided to turn around in a gravel parking lot. I lost control and slid sideways on the ice for about 20 feet going aprox 25 mph. Well I came to an immidiate stop when my passenger front tire fell through the 6 in ice and then caught a thicker part. Both driver side tires came off the ground about 1 1/6 ft and slammed back down. Ever since then I havn't been to worried about breaking anything under a side load since nothing was bent cracked or even showed sign of stress.

I do plan on reinforcing the unibody but I havn't done any research on welding to it or anything. So I plan on reading through those fab forums.