movie " sicko"

[BruceB83]

What I think is funny is how someone will complain about paying 5-25 bucks for a flu shot.

Like they think it's their God given right to recieve health care.

What a stupid notion. I just can't figure out why this country is getting such an attitue of entitlement. You don't have the right to anything about Health care. It was never written in the constitution.

Get off your lazy ass and work for it, like the rest of us do.

BTW...I am a HUGE lover of the HSA plans being offered now. When people actually have to see how much it costs instead of just writing out a co-pay, maybe they will start complaining about what it costs and the market will drive the prices down. Honestly I think this is one of the big reasons health care costs are so out of reach. People don't care what it costs because they just see a 20 dollar co-pay.

DING DING DING!

As far as meds go, some people don't think about how much money companies spend in R&D to develop these "expensive" medicines. Why are they expensive? Because the companies have to re-coop their costs AND make a profit. They aren't in the business of not making money. If so, they wouldn't be in business and we would have to come up with these medicines on our own and I don't know about some of you, but I don't really have the time in my days to figure out how to cure sicknesses that I may get. Now, I do think the healthcare SERVICE costs are kind of crazy. But then again, it's supply and demand. Healthcare is expensive (as in a doctor charging $300 for a 15 minute visit) because there are not that many people who can do it. Not your everyday person can diagnose diseases and run tests on patients.

 

[BruceB83]

Its not just true for the guys on the right.

Its pretty much ANY guy in office. For every dollar they see from the lobbyist's, the smaller their nads get.

Well kind of true. What I meant was the politicians on the right don't have the balls to stand up and say things how they should be said. I honestly believe that most liberals in office are just there for power and only power. To me, that means they have balls. They have to sit there and flat out lie to their voters like they do. I also honestly believe that 90% of the crap that comes out of mouths like Clinton (pick one) and Obama, they know to be crap also. But they realize that the stupid people voting for them don't realize that so that's what they say to get the votes. The reason I think that is because I almost refuse to believe that Hilary Clinton actually believes all the stuff that comes out of her own mouth because it just doesn't make sense.

My problem in this comes from the fact that I am a hard worker who doesn't expect NOR do I want anybody else to take care of me and my life. I also know how to take responsibility for my own actions and expect consequences when due. Unfortunately, this makes me much different from liberal voters and that is an absolute fact. Case in point...anybody who wants the existing Social Security disaster to continue doesn't want to take their future into their own hands...bottom line.

 

[IXNAYXJ]

America's Modern day Joseph Goebbels:

That is all.

-----Matt-----

 

[Stumpalump]

BruceB83 and DrMoab
DING DING DING to both of you!
Do you think we would see some change if every worker in America had to write a check for his taxes instead of a payroll deduction every month? Do you think more would spend the time to find out a little more about the politics that are costing them so much? Sheeple ruined our goverment by not becoming informed.

 

[BruceB83]

BruceB83 and DrMoab
DING DING DING to both of you!
Do you think we would see some change if every worker in America had to write a check for his taxes instead of a payroll deduction every month? Do you think more would spend the time to find out a little more about the politics that are costing them so much? Sheeple ruined our goverment by not becoming informed.

OH ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY would we see change if everyone had to write their tax payment as one lump sum. People would go freakin insane. If I had to write a $15k check at the end of the year...I don't know that I would...they might have to come take it from me.

 

[beakie]

Can't speak too much about whats goes on south of the border, but I do enjoy the health care system we have up here.
Granted I have been in the military for 6 years now, but before hand it was nice knowing I could dislocate my shoulder, break a finger, a thumb, whatever... walk into a hospital and know it wasn't going to cost me anything. If it was an emergency I was seen rather fast, but at the same time I have personally put others before me when admitted because I wasn't in dire need of a Dr, where as someone crying in pain was.
I don't pay any attention to governments, on my side or south of the border, I am not a fan of Bush but thats just me and what I see of him, Moore seems to just exploit the ignorance of those he doesn't like. Whether or not he is right or wrong is going to be hard to prove as its not hard to come up with 'facts' to support just about anything. His facts are what he has found during his search for the 'truth' he's not going to toss in a bunch of people going against what he's trying to say. On the other side, everyone that closes their eyes to what he does, and calls him the names they do, they find 'facts' that make his 'facts' look like lies. If you look at past and present research you'll understand that over 59% of all "facts" are made up anyways. I really don't understand the point of trying to prove one person right the other wrong. Why should anyone have to explain themselves to anyone else, your friends shouldn't need an explanation and your enemies don't deserve one...

As far as health care tho, we do loose a lot of nurses and health care providers to the south. $$$$ talks, and when you can get paid twice as much to do the same job somewhere else, not many are willing to stick around just because. As for us travelling south to get elective surgeries, well thats the point, there elective, not required. If its required its paid for, and if its a priority it gets done in as timely a fashion as it can.

yes it may be nice to know your getting the best healthcare money can buy, but thats for those who can afford to buy it. What do those who don't have a home/car/land to sell do when their son dislocates and tears the ligaments in his sholder?
I went to the hospital and it didn't cost my family anyting other than taxes.

By the way, 59% of all facts being made up... ya kinda made that up too, but sounded convincing till now didn't it?

 

[Stumpalump]

Don't foget to watch the republican debate on CNN tonight. Hanady and colmbs with have a collection of Clinton flip flops on fox at 8pm eastern.

 

[WB9YZU]

We will always have the working poor. And since the latest statistic is that the mean wage in America is $54K per household, they're not going away anytime soon.

We have outstanding healthcare, and that costs money. Many of us are capable of laying out $300/Month (employer subsidized)for Family HMO, but there are just as many who can not. How do we deal with the working poor? You know, the poor slumps who work 2-3 jobs just to pay the rent and feed the kids? Forget health care for them, they can't afford to get sick, let alone see a doctor. Heaven help them if they get really sick because there is no assistance if you make over the poverty level wages. Telling these folks to just go get fudged and to die in some corner is not an option. You wouldn't treat your dog like that, why would you treat another person like that?

What National Healthcare would do is level the field. The working poor would get the same chance at health care as everyone else.

Ron

 

[Stumpalump]

We will always have the working poor. And since the latest statistic is that the mean wage in America is $54K per household, they're not going away anytime soon.

We have outstanding healthcare, and that costs money. Many of us are capable of laying out $300/Month (employer subsidized)for Family HMO, but there are just as many who can not. How do we deal with the working poor? You know, the poor slumps who work 2-3 jobs just to pay the rent and feed the kids? Forget health care for them, they can't afford to get sick, let alone see a doctor. Heaven help them if they get really sick because there is no assistance if you make over the poverty level wages. Telling these folks to just go get fudged and to die in some corner is not an option. You wouldn't treat your dog like that, why would you treat another person like that?

What National Healthcare would do is level the field. The working poor would get the same chance at health care as everyone else.

Ron

It would do a lot of other thing also. Like every poor smuck in the country will go to doctors untill he gets put on a disability check. They will stay home sick from work and go to the doctor just for a medical excuse. The system will be cloged on day one. My ex is self employed and she shells out big bucks for insurance. It's called a choice. Go to the home of those that"can't afford" healthcare and look for the big screen TV with cable,the pizza delivery guy, a fresh bag of weed and empty beer cans in the trash next to the nice car. It's called a choice and in a free society choice rules.
A better plan would be to make it a law to have insurance like car insurance. Now that would drive the cost down for everbody. Show proof of insurance or pay a fine thru a higher tax rate. Still no insurance then garnish wages untill debt is paid.

 

[imma honky]

I work a shitty job just so I can have healthcare. I like my 20$ co-pays. 400$ a month sure beats 4k$ a month.

 

[kdailey4315]

Don't foget to watch the republican debate on CNN tonight. Hanady and colmbs with have a collection of Clinton flip flops on fox at 8pm eastern.

Have the DVR set to record it. How long is the show on Clinton flip flops? Is it going to be a marathon or will they just pick the best ones?

 

[WB9YZU]

It would do a lot of other thing also. Like every poor smuck in the country will go to doctors untill he gets put on a disability check. They will stay home sick from work and go to the doctor just for a medical excuse. The system will be cloged on day one. My ex is self employed and she shells out big bucks for insurance. It's called a choice. Go to the home of those that"can't afford" healthcare and look for the big screen TV with cable,the pizza delivery guy, a fresh bag of weed and empty beer cans in the trash next to the nice car. It's called a choice and in a free society choice rules.
A better plan would be to make it a law to have insurance like car insurance. Now that would drive the cost down for everbody. Show proof of insurance or pay a fine thru a higher tax rate. Still no insurance then garnish wages untill debt is paid.

You are aware that people on the very bottom of the income scale those on SSI get free health care, right? Why not enable those who earn above the poverty rate, but not enough to make it on their own and pay for health care, to also get health care? That's fair.

While your at it, why don't we "make a law", as you so put it, mandating that everyone has health insurance. Make it a mandate that every person in the land have equal access to health care no matter what their financial circumstance. Hmmm, sounds more and more like universal health care to me. DOH!

Your example and assertion that universal health care would somehow produce a log jam of dissability applications is so off in left field, people on California are still looking for it. :laugh3:

I don't see health care as a "Right". I see it more as a necessity that all people get basic health care. There is no reason that a persons ability to pay should influence the care they get. I know that sounds socialist, but that's just my take.

Ron

 

[Ironmen77]

I don't see health care as a "Right". I see it more as a necessity that all people get basic health care. There is no reason that a persons ability to pay should influence the care they get. I know that sounds socialist, but that's just my take.

Ron[/quote]

Would food be a necessity? How about a car? Equal opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome. The government shouldn't give you things, just the opportunity to get it yourself.

 

[DrMoab]

You are aware that people on the very bottom of the income scale those on SSI get free health care, right? Why not enable those who earn above the poverty rate, but not enough to make it on their own and pay for health care, to also get health care? That's fair.

I don't think those that are below poverty level should get free health care either. Maybe the kiddos and those who are disabled. Personally I think the SSI recipients and other disabled peoples are the only ones who should get any kind of welfare assistance. If you have two good legs, a brain and at least one hand....GET A FREAKING JOB!!!!!!!

Plenty of work out there if you just look.

Like I said in the above post. If we got rid of most insurance, made it damn near impossible to sue a doctor unless it was a HUGE mal-practice and just generally made people pay attention to what it was costing for drugs and health care the costs would drop to where most everyday people could afford it.

Ever wonder why drugs are so much cheaper in Mexico? Cause the market dictates what people will pay.

 

[BruceB83]

There will never be a perfect system that will "work" "fairly" for everybody. Fair doesn't happen in a a free market so people can get over that or move to Canada. So the bottom line is....if you want/need something then go work for it.

However, there is one thing that you can do if you don't like the cost of healthcare....start writing your representatives and put pressure on DC to stop this damn immigration PROBLEM. Who do you think is paying for all of the illegals' doctor/emergency room visits??? I'll give you one guess and it's not them.

 

[87manche]

Ever wonder why drugs are so much cheaper in Mexico? Cause the market dictates what people will pay.

this is false, drugs are cheaper in Mexico because they don't have an FDA.
My wife works in an animal testing facility that does tox and developmental testing for the pharmecuticals.
The costs for a study is ridiculous, but they have to be done before anything get's approved. You're talking millions involved over the course of 5 years just to study the effects on rats and rabbits.
You want safe drugs though right?

 

[DrMoab]

this is false, drugs are cheaper in Mexico because they don't have an FDA.
My wife works in an animal testing facility that does tox and developmental testing for the pharmecuticals.
The costs for a study is ridiculous, but they have to be done before anything get's approved. You're talking millions involved over the course of 5 years just to study the effects on rats and rabbits.
You want safe drugs though right?

You may be right and yes I want safe drugs but I still think it is crazy to pay double or tripple because some over bloated government agency makes it that way.

Oh and after Vioxx and all the other drugs that were tested and then hurt a bunch of people, I really don't trust the FDA to do their jobs anyway.

 

[BruceB83]

...Oh and after Vioxx and all the other drugs that were tested and then hurt a bunch of people, I really don't trust the FDA to do their jobs anyway.

Lol...did you trust any government agency to do their jobs efficiently and properly before that. They pretty much screw up anything they stick their hands in. A private company could do the job of almost any government agency with better efficiency and more positive results.

 

[87manche]

You may be right and yes I want safe drugs but I still think it is crazy to pay double or tripple because some over bloated government agency makes it that way.

Oh and after Vioxx and all the other drugs that were tested and then hurt a bunch of people, I really don't trust the FDA to do their jobs anyway.

true, the FDA is pretty ridiculous.
They force all of these companies to do testing, but in reality, you can't test for everything.
The FDA is like everything else government, bloated and incompetent.

 

[goodburbon]

Working part time while I was in school, with my wife 8 months preggo I couldn't afford insurance. I could have gotten it, but I would not have been able to afford it. I did the math. That semester I was making approx 15k a year, Health insurance for my family was $7500 a year. I had heard of all of the benefits that the welfare crowd got, so I applied (would have been short term, as we ended up doing ok after the wife got a job.) we were denied because i made too much money.