Longer travel leafs & shackle setup

[wrecked]

So I've been watching a couple of the builds over at Pirate lately and the toyota guys seem to have the leaf sprung builds down better than anyone. I've been thinking about adapting their stuff over to an XJ and then today I noticed a jeep in the showcase and figured I ought to ask. And yes I searched it.

I want to get my rear articulation to match the front and be really well balanced. My front shocks extend to 34" and allow my wheel to droop almost 3feet I have only 3 1/2" of compression though.
The rear shocks are 25" extended with 3" of compression(I'm very easy on the rig and it works well for me). The rear shocks, brakelines, and driveshaft all seem to have plenty of ability to droop further, but I've gotten the rear maxed out really easily and I'm not pleased.
I'm at the time where I have to replace my rear spring anyway so I may as well do things now.

What I want to do is run long, flat leafs and a long shackle that sits at more of an angle than most shackles.

All-Pro Offroad makes some really nice super flex leaf packs.
http://allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=47
I've seen them on a couple rigs getting worked and they were NICE. Plus they come with the military wrap and are a whole lot less than my RE springs.

The thing that I have trouble with is that I haven't found a Toyota leaf spring measurement or how much these springs would sag under my rig. (I want to keep it at 6.5" of lift as I find thats about perfect to fit a 36" tire, allow full stuff and stay nice and low COG.) And I also need to figure out a way mount some new mounts under the rig.

I figure if I can boxe in the old leaf spring mounds and weld something like this to the bottom of it.

I understand that lowering the rear leaf spring hanger will make it so that the rear shackle can't be as long, but will also halep to keep it higher when the leafs are flat.

Anyway, I hope I explained everything well. Can I get some opinions and help?

-Kevin

 

[wrecked]

I went to go and find a similar picture on www.XJDB.com and apparently its been hacked? Lame.

 

[BrettM]

Have you considered inboarding the leafs under the "frame rails"? it would be easier to build mounts and flexing provides more leverage on the leaf for more flex with the same spring-rate.

Military wrapped springs are great, I (minorly) bent too many MJ leafs merely from torque, but my military wrapped leafs up front have taken a beating from rocks also and not bent at all.

you may also want to look at leafs with Orbit eyes, they're like Johnny joints in the leaf eye rather than a bushing.

 

[xjj33p3r]

Have you considered inboarding the leafs under the "frame rails"? it would be easier to build mounts and flexing provides more leverage on the leaf for more flex with the same spring-rate.

Military wrapped springs are great, I (minorly) bent too many MJ leafs merely from torque, but my military wrapped leafs up front have taken a beating from rocks also and not bent at all.

you may also want to look at leafs with Orbit eyes, they're like Johnny joints in the leaf eye rather than a bushing.

Where can you get those flex joints for leafs?

 

[T&A-XJ]

Inboarding the leafs helps with articulation(more leverage and less needed spring movement) but from what I have read here and other places(no personal experiance) that the loss of rear stability wasnt worth it.

We have tried a orbital eye on the shackle and was definatly not worth it, pulled the shackles after one small run. Running an orbital eye in the front(if you could find springs that have a large enough eye) of the leaf might be a worthy option but running it on the shackle side looses side to side stability, the rear end would shift from side to side making for seemingly unstable off camber sections.

Our next step is to use longer leafs with moving the front hanger forward similar to what Goatman on here has done. The forward side pin to eye distance is too short to let one side droop and the other compress without binding the leafs....

To make a long story end, search Goatmans setup.

 

[88rockxj]

Inboarding the leafs helps with articulation(more leverage and less needed spring movement) but from what I have read here and other places(no personal experiance) that the loss of rear stability wasnt worth it.


To make a long story end, search Goatmans setup.

all depends on how you build your leafs and what shocks you run, 4runners are simliar in weight and thier factory perch to perch measurment is closer then xjs. inboarding on an xj unless you move your gas tank you can only move the springs about 3 inches, i have yet to hear back from more then 1 person on the internet that personaly ran inboarded rear leafs on an xj and said it ruined stability and wasnt worth it. i fail to believe that its prooven that moving your spring inwards 3 inches on each side kills your stability considering how many other vehicles have spring perch widths stock that are close to a inboarded xj. i believe if you run stiff shocks and use beefy clamps on your springs along with an extra leaf above the main leaf youll be fine, i will find out shortly. imo not only does it provide more flex you dont have to spend big$$ on really arched springs to get the height you need to run big tires and since you dont want to lose stability by putting an extra leaf all the way along the main leaf and clamped in 3 places (mine are also military wrapped) that the springs will be really stiff and help reduce the horrible axle wrap xjs are known for. i may be wrong and once i get mine on the trail ill find out and report back, also one of the only inboarded xjs i can find has the horrible 63" chevy springs, i own a toy and love em but man do those toy guys use those 63" rock hangers way too much.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Search for a thread titled, "Suspension tuning" by LBEXJ.

Someone just bumped it this week.

HTH

 

[gearwhine]

I personally see no reason to inboard your springs. You say you want 6.5" of lift. I have about 5.5" with the main eye in the stock position, and the rear shackle moved below the "box" using extended YJ shackles. I use RE 4.5" springs, removed the smallest leaf, and added the longest leaf (without eyes) from a stock Upcountry leaf pack. This, so far, has worked very well for the few times I took it out....haven't even driven my jeep in over a year though.

I would definitely suggest a lift block (steel, and small welds to the leaf perch) and a traction bar way before lowering your mount. This will easily net you 6.5", and still have a pretty flat spring. _nicko_

 

[wrecked]

I read LBEXJ's thread(it came up when I searched) and I wasnt totally satisfied with everything I read, however it was helpful.

I dont really want to inboard the leafs because I'm already running no sway bars and big tires and I want to keep things as stable and wide as possible.

The oribital eye I think would help, however I'm still going to have a shackle that points straight up and down so still the only articulation would come from the spring decompressing(which wouldn't be too much if its already U-shaped) and the eye twisting.

I think my friends got some toyota springs and I guess I'll grab those get some measurements and see if its doable.

-Kevin

 

[rangerjoe2001]

Well im in the same boat here as far as leaf springs go. I plan on building a more balanced suspension.

I have the RE 4.5 superflex lift 3.5 leafs and a 1 inch shackle.

After a recent wheeling trip i noticed i have some bad torque lean. It leans really bad. Ive never been extremely satisfied with my rear articulation as my rear end always flexes after the front. It is not balanced at all. Im going to be obtaining a second set of cherokee leafs "i still have my OEM ones, and im gonna experiment with them together with possibly some dakota leafs.

Im going for about 4 inches of lift in the back, and i want it flexy!

As far as the toyota springs, i have seen some flexy toyota's and they had well tuned suspensions, which is also since most of them i have wheeled with had leafs front and rear!

as it was said in the other thread, more leafs with a lighter spring rate will result in a more flexy suspension.

If you look at the leafs in the link you posted, there are a bunch of leafs that seem relatively thin.

 

[jslamerman]

Funny, Ive been thinking of using those same leafs on my MJ, almost EXACTLY the same measurments, I think Ill get some perches from MORE that have multiple positions in the event that its not exact, and I am already redrilling the shackle mount in the rear for a greater shackle angle, using the longest Rustys shackle for more travel. I also want to inboard the upper shock mounts (same as the toy guys do it), and mount the shocks in an XJ fashion in order to use all the available travel.
Off of Marlin Crawlers website-

Part Number Item Pin to Front Pin to Rear Length Price
MC-13004 Front 4" 22" 25" 47" $269/pair
MC-13005 Front 5" 22 1/4" 22 1/4" 47 1/2" $269/pair
MC-13014 Rear 4" 27" 29 5/8" 56 5/8" $339/pair
MC-13015 Rear 5" 27 1/4" 30" 57 1/4" $339/pair

 

[wrecked]

Funny, Ive been thinking of using those same leafs on my MJ, almost EXACTLY the same measurments, I think Ill get some perches from MORE that have multiple positions in the event that its not exact, and I am already redrilling the shackle mount in the rear for a greater shackle angle, using the longest Rustys shackle for more travel. I also want to inboard the upper shock mounts (same as the toy guys do it), and mount the shocks in an XJ fashion in order to use all the available travel.
Off of Marlin Crawlers website-

Part Number Item Pin to Front Pin to Rear Length Price
MC-13004 Front 4" 22" 25" 47" $269/pair
MC-13005 Front 5" 22 1/4" 22 1/4" 47 1/2" $269/pair
MC-13014 Rear 4" 27" 29 5/8" 56 5/8" $339/pair
MC-13015 Rear 5" 27 1/4" 30" 57 1/4" $339/pair

Looks like your the guy I want to talk to. Where are the Adjustable mounts available. Your mavoing the shackle mount backwards and running a longer shackle. are you cunning out the back piece that prevents the shackle from moving back?

-Kevin

 

[jslamerman]

Well, you have an XJ, and they are different length springs in the rear than I have. The MJ leafs are 3 inches longer pin to front and 2 inches longer pin to shackle to begin with. Problem 2, is that MJs use a frame under mount to begin with, Im not sure what the shackle hanger looks like on an XJ (dont know if you can redrill it). I do know that if you want to move your rear springs forward, it shouldnt be that big a deal, but Id use some TNT frame stiffeners, as your forward spring mount is a "box" outboard of the frame, and it would certainly reinforce that area, and make welding the mount much easier and stronger (that area always looked cheesy to me!) If you could just use a longer shackle, youd have a nice steep shackle angle (I plan on redrilling my hanger an 1" FORWARD of stock, for more angle), which promotes travel (you get some wrap as well, but the high quality leafs with military wrap and an anti wrap leaf like all-pros and marlins really help counteract this. I REALLY wouldnt molunt an anti-wrap bar to any stock type rear housing, as the tubes are just too thin. I do have experience in this area, and it can be very bad!!) Just ideas............

Oh, and as far as adjustable mounts, you could fab a set of adjustable front spring hanger fairly easily, just make the mount with 3 holes to begin with, and measure for the middle. As far as adjustable spring perches, like I said MORE has them (pricey though)