long arm vs stock length???

[whooprunner]

I think the original poster was thinking about getting into JeepSpeed. This means there would be a limitation of using the stock mounting points on the axle regardless if it was a 3 link or 4 link. The only somewhat legal 3 links (that maintain the stock mounting points) I have seen using this config is PolyPerformance and RockKrawler, but even RockKrawler recomends their special 4 link for JeepSpeed.

If JeepSpeed rules wasn't a limitation, it would be interesting to see someone make a wishbone 3 link setup or a 4 link with the top links at the top center of the axle. This might allow you to get rid of the trackbar and the sideways cycling. Would be interesting...

-Randy

 

[chris_amrein]

If JeepSpeed rules wasn't a limitation, it would be interesting to see someone make a wishbone 3 link setup or a 4 link with the top links at the top center of the axle. This might allow you to get rid of the trackbar and the sideways cycling. Would be interesting...

-Randy

It can be done (but not Jeepspeed legal), but you have to go full hydro or run the p/s box under the driver to eliminate bumpsteer. You really can't run a box in the stock location with a wishbone front end because a wishbone front end cycles straight up and down, where as a track bar front end shifts slightly side to side.

Chris

 

[Ryan93]

since we are on the topic of long arms, I was wondering is there a way to have a frame stiffener like the T&J one but have it work for a long arm setup? If im right the T&J one attaches to the LCA mount right? But if you go LA dont you have to cut that off?

 

[silverslk]

since we are on the topic of long arms, I was wondering is there a way to have a frame stiffener like the T&J one but have it work for a long arm setup? If im right the T&J one attaches to the LCA mount right? But if you go LA dont you have to cut that off?

Yeah just cut it off. Its not a huge deal. The bar still gets the other points as well as welded with (I think) 4 plates per side down the length of the tube welded to the "frame".

 

[Goatman]

If JeepSpeed rules wasn't a limitation, it would be interesting to see someone make a wishbone 3 link setup or a 4 link with the top links at the top center of the axle. This might allow you to get rid of the trackbar and the sideways cycling. Would be interesting...

-Randy

What's wrong with the trackbar?

Lot's of suspensions have panhard bars to locate the axle sideways. I understand wanting to limit sideways motion, but why? As long as there's no bumpsteer does it even matter? I've measured the sideways movement of an axle through the full suspension cycle and it's not very much. Plus, if the trackbar is mounted nearly level there isn't any sideways movement......if the sideways movement was bad.

I know we're just discussing, so.........

 

[whooprunner]

What's wrong with the trackbar?

Lot's of suspensions have panhard bars to locate the axle sideways. I understand wanting to limit sideways motion, but why? As long as there's no bumpsteer does it even matter? I've measured the sideways movement of an axle through the full suspension cycle and it's not very much. Plus, if the trackbar is mounted nearly level there isn't any sideways movement......if the sideways movement was bad.

I know we're just discussing, so.........

Haha I don't have anything personal about track bars, but I have OCD and I like everything to be as symmetrical as possible. Too Much Info, but I hate clothing that isn't symmetrical like togas and Flinstones clothing. I'd rather have the suspension cycling cleanly up and down with no side to side movement, so that no matter how much travel/Droop the suspension has, everything will be inline. It just bothers me knowing that at full droop that my axle is not exactly aligned with the chassis no matter how small it might really be.. It also bugs me when I see the hydraulic bumps slightly off vertical to match sideways motion and not seeing a track bar going to the opposite direction. With highspeed stuff, the simpler the better.

I come from a prerunner background before getting into JeepSpeed and would rather have A-Arms, but I know the suspension works and just gotta get over it.

Just my OCD opinion LOL!

-Randy

 

[whooprunner]

since we are on the topic of long arms, I was wondering is there a way to have a frame stiffener like the T&J one but have it work for a long arm setup? If im right the T&J one attaches to the LCA mount right? But if you go LA dont you have to cut that off?

T&J will make you one with out it.

 

[RD93Chry8.25]

Haha I don't have anything personal about track bars, but I have OCD and I like everything to be as symmetrical as possible. Too Much Info, but I hate clothing that isn't symmetrical like togas and Flinstones clothing. I'd rather have the suspension cycling cleanly up and down with no side to side movement, so that no matter how much travel/Droop the suspension has, everything will be inline. It just bothers me knowing that at full droop that my axle is not exactly aligned with the chassis no matter how small it might really be.. It also bugs me when I see the hydraulic bumps slightly off vertical to match sideways motion and not seeing a track bar going to the opposite direction. With highspeed stuff, the simpler the better.

I come from a prerunner background before getting into JeepSpeed and would rather have A-Arms, but I know the suspension works and just gotta get over it.

Just my OCD opinion LOL!

-Randy

Track bars are very important for dealing with bump steer in a vehicle like an XJ with a frame mounted steering box. I assume that preventing bump steer would be VERY important when going fast.

 

[whooprunner]

Track bars are very important for dealing with bump steer in a vehicle like an XJ with a frame mounted steering box. I assume that preventing bump steer would be VERY important when going fast.

You are absolutely correct. The previous comment was regarding a different type of 3 link / 4 link that couldn't have "standard" frame mounted steering due to the center mounting causing the suspension to cycle inline with the car instead of sideways. Think of it as putting a rear TJ 3/4link backwards as the front suspension.

 

[RD93Chry8.25]

You are absolutely correct. The previous comment was regarding a different type of 3 link / 4 link that couldn't have "standard" frame mounted steering due to the center mounting causing the suspension to cycle inline with the car instead of sideways. Think of it as putting a rear TJ 3/4link backwards as the front suspension.

Right so a 3 or 4 link with some triangulation of at least some of the links.

My point is that you cant run a 4 or 3 link that that cycles up and down inline with the truck (as you suggest) in the front with out causing horrible bump steer as it cycles up and down. The side to side movement may bother your sense of correctness, but it is good and necessary for keeping the tires headed in the correct direction!

I guess you could engineer a new steering system that prevents this by moving the steering box, or run full hydraulic steering, but neither of those seem like a simple solution to me.

p.s. By the way the rear of a TJ has a track bar unless modified with truly triangulated arms and an after-market suspension.

 

[whooprunner]

I guess you could engineer a new steering system that prevents this by moving the steering box, or run full hydraulic steering, but neither of those seem like a simple solution to me.

Yes I agree as Amrein stated before, this could not be done with the current type of steering and would have to go with something such as full hydraulics. This was all Pie in the sky talk.

 

[winkosmosis]

Why is no one addressing stress on the unibody, and absorption of bumps?

You want the wheel to move in a backward arc, or straight up at least. Neither will happen with a lifted solid axle vehicle without drop brackets. But you can get close to vertical travel with the long arms.
There's a reason baja buggies have have the control arms set up at a rearward tilted angle-- because that's the best way to absorb bumps with the suspension.

Ya I agree it would be more reliable an less stress on the fram just runniing the LA but mines not a wheeler I won't need that super flexing an what not

I think you've got that backards. Flexing doesn't stress the unibody as much as slamming into a bump at speed, and having your angled control arms FORCING the wheel and axle forward. Long arms make little difference for stress at crawling speed, but the improved angles, combined with the new crossmember tying the framerails together and distributing force would help for high speed.