lifting a 4.0 I-6 out

[mhead]

I have an '88 XJ 4.0 I-6 with Auto tranny. I've stripped nearly everything off the motor except the head. I have a cherry picker and am preparing to remove the I-6 from the engine compartment.

My question is: does anyone know where to safely lift the motor? I have made flat brackets which I've welded to sturdy chain. The obvious attach points are the rear intake/exhaust manifold bolt (manifold has been removed) and one of the alternator bracket bolts at the front on the opposite side. Are these good points?

Also, it appears that I need only to disconnect the motor mounts and the bolts from the trans to release the motor. Are there any tricks at this point or pitfalls?

Thanks
Mike

 

[FatXJ]

Those are the points i used with no problem.

 

[chassellbandit]

top two bolts to tranny are E12, driver side isn't too bad w/ about 3' of extension and aknuckle joint. pass side, if the mounts are out, you can drop the engine abit to get at it. the other option is to use a 3/8" 6pt box end wrench. fits great, thats how i ahd to get the pass side back in. also, it makes it alot easier to have two people, one to guide the socket one, the other to turn it.

 

[dan f.]

i just did this about five days ago, but i used the head bolts to lift it out. one problem we had was that the engine mount got stuck on the stud on the frame. not to bad, but you might want to not just unbolt, but completely extract any motor mount pieces prior to lifting. if they're as wasted as the ones on my 89, should be easy. good luck.
dan f.

 

[mhead]

Thanks for the info and great ideas! I'll pull it this weekend.

Mike

 

[mhead]

Ok, released motor mounts and actually began to pull the motor out. Things are going OK except the the two bolts through the top of the trans bell housing into the motor are not the usual hex-head bolt. They have funny-looking heads that have many ridges on them. I've seen similar ones on the front brake calipers.

Should I use a 12-pt, 6-pt, or is there a special socket for these bolts?

These bolts seem really hard to get to. I hope the lowering the motor trick works....!
Mike

 

[ACE]

As chasselbandit said, those two top bolts use an E12 socket. I found E12 sockets at Sears. I would recommend you not use a 3/8" box end wrench. Some have been succussful but not me. I first used that and stripped the bolt slightly.
Also, I found that using a couple of foot long extensions and a wobbly on the end next to the socket along with dropping the tranny mount crossmember and tilting the back of the engine down made it easier to remove those bolts. Good luck.

 

[mhead]

Oh... I get it now. E12 is the special tool. A hunt at sears.com translates this into a socket set for $19.95 that is called External Torx. I didn't know there was such a thing... Knowledge, and perhaps some saved $, is the reward for doing vehicle work yourself!

As far as tilting the engine, I had assumed chasselbandit meant that I should get the engine hooked to the lift, remove the motor mounts (about midway on each side of the I-6) then lower the lift some. I expected the front of the engine to pitch downwards thereby widing the gap between the rear of the engine and the vehicle firewall.

It seems your suggestion is to hook up the motor to the lift, probably place a floor jack under the trans, pull the trans mount and lower the whole assy some. Correct?

The lower two bolts are easy to get at. I've already removed/replaced them as a test. Think I'll leave them tight, remove the uppers, and then release them last, with the next step being lift the engine out.

A little planning goes a long way when messing with 700 pounds.

Thanks!
Mike

 

[ACE]

Yeah, you've got it. I think chassellbandits way would work also if you're able to get the engine to drop low enough. Seems like I tried that but couldn't get it to drop far enough, something was in the way. I don't remember, it was quite a while ago.
Yeah that E12 is peculiar. Some have gone ahead and replaced those with standard head bolts. I figure, if I have to buy the tool to get them out, might as well keep it like that .

 

[mhead]

Have ordered an E12 and will try removal on Saturday. The discussion about lowering the trans makes me wonder: Is it possible to take engine/trans out as a complete unit? I want the trans out anyway. Anyone tried this?

Thanks
Mike

 

[ChiXJeff]

I pulled my 4.0l and AX15 trans out as a unit in May. Putting it back in that way was kind of like threading a needle with a bulldozer, but it worked.

 

[ssnsltd]

FWIW:

Having just pulled two engines, one out an 87 XJ with Auto trans and one out of an 88 with 5spd-

Yes, you can pull it out together, but you will absolutely need to remove the radiator and I would also take off the nose if you are only using a cherry picker, trust me, it will be a heck of a lot easier in the long run. For sure easier when you put it back in.

I would also HIGHLY encourage you to find a good tow strap and wrap it like a sling around the bottom of the engine through the motor mounts in addition to what you are planning now. By lifting them out together you are almost doubling the weight.

What is the # limit on your lift?

 

[mhead]

FWIW:

Having just pulled two engines, one out an 87 XJ with Auto trans and one out of an 88 with 5spd-

Yes, you can pull it out together, but you will absolutely need to remove the radiator and I would also take off the nose if you are only using a cherry picker, trust me, it will be a heck of a lot easier in the long run. For sure easier when you put it back in.

I would also HIGHLY encourage you to find a good tow strap and wrap it like a sling around the bottom of the engine through the motor mounts in addition to what you are planning now. By lifting them out together you are almost doubling the weight.

What is the # limit on your lift?

I've removed the radiator already and most of the trim, bumper, and other things on the front. The top panel (says 'jeep' on it) still crosses the vehicle. I haven't been able to figure out how to get it off! Is there a trick? I guess it's not spot welded.

Cherry picker is rated from 1/2 to 2 ton depending upon arm extension. I'm guessing I can use the 1 ton extension.

Good idea about the tow strap. I'm worried that this location, or even my attachment to the alternator bracket - rear manifold bolt will place lifting force too far forward and the trans will sink.

Maybe the best thing overall is to take the motor out, then lower the trans on a floor jack.

This jeep, sad to say, is not going back together. My daughter rolled it. I bought another and am salvaging what I can before it goes to the junk. It was a good Jeep and we had a lot of fun in it.

 

[ssnsltd]

I would take them apart myself. It will be safer and easier. Once the engine comes out the truck is REAL easy to lift to get the trans and (if 4x4) Xfer case out as one unit.
To separate the engine from the trans and torque converter you will need to remove the (4) flex plate bolts as well, access them through the bottom front of the trans- there is a plate you can remove after you take out the starter. Just use a screw driver or pry bar to rotate the torque convert and plate so you can get to all four.

After you pull the engine out pull the torque converter straight forward and tip the top toward you as soon as you clear the trans, otherwise trans fluid will run all over the place, it is holding several quarts of the stuff.

I used a sling only, no lifting bolts to pull my engine’s- complete with head and manifold.

BTW, if you loosen the bolts/nuts (2 of each) on the trans cross member, it will make separating the engine and trans easier. You will be able to “wiggle” the trans a bit.

If you are going to be working on the trusck this weekend and want a life line - sned me an email and I will send you my cell number- I will be workin' on mine as well anyway.

BTW- Hope your daughter wasn' t hurt
David

 

[mhead]

I would take them apart myself. It will be safer and easier. Once the engine comes out the truck is REAL easy to lift to get the trans and (if 4x4) Xfer case out as one unit.
To separate the engine from the trans and torque converter you will need to remove the (4) flex plate bolts as well, access them through the bottom front of the trans- there is a plate you can remove after you take out the starter. Just use a screw driver or pry bar to rotate the torque convert and plate so you can get to all four.

After you pull the engine out pull the torque converter straight forward and tip the top toward you as soon as you clear the trans, otherwise trans fluid will run all over the place, it is holding several quarts of the stuff.

I used a sling only, no lifting bolts to pull my engine’s- complete with head and manifold.

BTW, if you loosen the bolts/nuts (2 of each) on the trans cross member, it will make separating the engine and trans easier. You will be able to “wiggle” the trans a bit.

If you are going to be working on the trusck this weekend and want a life line - sned me an email and I will send you my cell number- I will be workin' on mine as well anyway.

BTW- Hope your daughter wasn' t hurt
David

Whoa! I didn't know about the torque converter bolts. I figured if I got the bolts I could see (two lower plus two E-12 upper) and the starter and other lower cover plates off that the engine drive line would decouple from the trans via a straight spline. I've only done stardard transmissions on other vehicles prior to this.

Email for me is [email protected]. Thanks for the offer!

"It's better to be lucky than smart" certainly applied to my 17 Y.O. daughter. Her and 4 friends went off-roading (just a dirt road really) after dark to celebrate another friends acquisition of a 4x4 of some sort. The road turned and she didn't, catching the drivers side wheels in soft dirt at the outside of the turn. My jeep was lifted 1 1/2", had bigger tires, a roof rack, a full tank of gas, and full seats so the center of gravity was quite high. It just rolled 360 slowly, down the slope. Lucky there was brush on the slope and soft dirt or it might have rolled and rolled and rolled. Anyway, it landed back on the wheels and everyone jumped out through 3 of 4 doors that would still open. I guess they all had belts on. No one got even a scratch. I drove it back up the hill (its last climb) in 4x4 lo with no problem, and drove it home.

 

[ssnsltd]

mhead
Sent you an email.

Yah, I missed them myself, that is why I mentioned it. :doh:

 

[dan f.]

if i were you, i would put some serious penetrent fluid on those torx's. a while ago before i started doing my own work on the jeep i had a shop replace the clutch. those two bolts caused them to have to keep the jeep longer just to remove them. they ended up torching them of and drilling out whatever was left inside. needless to say, i now have regular hex head bolts. not to scare you, just thought you could benefit from my experience.
hope this helps,
dan f.

 

[mhead]

Pulled the engine out today. Went as smooth as glass. Here's the total of what I did:

Removed the hood.

Removed battery, air cleaner box, manifolds and harness. Removed various other wires to the motor.

Removed radiator and all hoses to the motor. Removed trans cooler (but probably didn't have to except I'm scraping this vehicle).

Removed A/C, fan, alternator, PS pump, and bracketing, but didn't break A/C connections, just hung the pump outside the fender.

Drained oil in engine and trans.
Removed distrib, oil filter, and oil filter adaptor.

Removed starter motor and lower bolts holding various plates to the trans bell housing.

Removed 4 bolts thru flywheel to torque converter on trans. Thanks for the tip! I would never have seen them. My Chilton's says to remove these, but read the manual last I always say...

Loosened but did not remove lower two bell housing bolts.

At this point the motor is pretty well exposed.

Connected my lifting chain to rear manifold bolt and to one of the A/C bracket bolts at front of motor.

Connected cherry picker on 1 ton setting and lifted motor somewhat until no weight on the motor mounts. Removed motor mount bolts and motor mounts.

Removed the motor mount perch on the passenger side. This is the sheet metal that bolts to the frame. I couldn't get at the bolts to remove the motor mount bracket from the motor on this side.

Removed the motor mount bracket from the motor on driver's side. Didn't need to remove the perch.

Removed the perch/mount so I could lower the motor. It hung up without both these out.

Lowered motor with trans still in the usual bracket. At this point I was able to do the magic E-12 Torx with a long extension and swivel. I put about 36" of extension, then the swivel, then the E-12 and fed the whole thing in from back by the trans. Yes, these bolts were on tight!! After they let go they came out freely. No damage to bolt head but I wouldn't put anything but a torx back in this location. If the head strips, well... What a cool trick the motor lowering is!!

Removed the lower two bell housing bolts.

Swung the motor left/right once to release the trans and it hung freely.

Up and out!

Thanks all for the suggestions. Not all of the above steps were done on the same day or in the exact order presented but I think this is the best path.


Thanks for the really useful suggestions. The best reason to own a XJ is this www site!

Mike

 

[ssnsltd]

And the crowd goes wild!
arty:

Glad it all worked out

 

[XJFreak]

OK guys,
Having followed this with baited breath. I have a question. I removed my engine without removing the torque converter. Now that I have the engine out, (it came out very easily) what do I need to do to remove the torque converter from the fly wheel?