Libya

[mcantar18c]

Its no longer a question of military action, but how extensive that action will be.

Coalition forces declare military action:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-takes-action-libya/

US launches Tomohawks:
http://www.voanews.com/english/news...siles-Gadhafi-Vows-Retaliation-118321869.html

Obama statement:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...egun-limited-military-action-in-libya-1-.html


Typical Democrats spewing their typical bullchit to make people happy:

"The U.S. military will be playing a supportive role in this action. We will not have troops on the ground; instead we are providing strategic support where we have unique capabilities to the Arab and European nations that are taking the lead,” said Democratic Rep. Howard Berman

No boots on the ground my ass. Those Tomohawks aren't going anywhere without our guys there to provide intel on where they need to go, paint the targets, and confirm they hit the target.


Funny how history repeats itself, ain't it?...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya

 

[Ralph]

Something that I would like to see is Arab League aircraft over Libya. How about some of those F15's that the Saudis own doing the fighting. They have our equipment and we trained them, they should be capable of setting up and enforcing a no fly zone.

 

[Rod Knee]

Typical Democrats spewing their typical bullchit to make people happy:


No boots on the ground my ass. Those Tomohawks aren't going anywhere without our guys there to provide intel on where they need to go, paint the targets, and confirm they hit the target.

Some missiles have already been fired, and it didn't require US troops on the ground, at least none that were specified in your links. Didn't you read your own links? Any reason to assume satellite/aerial survellience would be insufficient to confirm hits?

 

[RichP]

This pisses me off, simple solution, take 200 rebel volunteers and give them the two day stinger course, create 100 2 man teams and drop them back home with 10-20 reloads and see how the hat man's pilots like them apples. Same with the armor. 200 men, two days training and drop them back home with AT-4's and 30 reloads each and see how the track drivers like them.
The Libyans want freedom, fine, let em earn it, don't just give it to them, they will appreciate it more if they have to bleed for it..

 

[mcantar18c]

Some missiles have already been fired, and it didn't require US troops on the ground, at least none that were specified in your links. Didn't you read your own links? Any reason to assume satellite/aerial survellience would be insufficient to confirm hits?

Yes, I read my own links, they said Tomahawk missiles.
Tomahawks are GPS guided to within +/- 60ft, which could be the difference between killing bad guys and causing an international incident. It still needs a PRF code from SOFLAM to be precise. Also need eyes on to confirm targets and clear civilians. Drones can't do that yet.
Not to mention our intelligence network that has been up and running there for who knows how long now.
Believe me, we have people there.

This pisses me off, simple solution, take 200 rebel volunteers and give them the two day stinger course, create 100 2 man teams and drop them back home with 10-20 reloads and see how the hat man's pilots like them apples. Same with the armor. 200 men, two days training and drop them back home with AT-4's and 30 reloads each and see how the track drivers like them.
The Libyans want freedom, fine, let em earn it, don't just give it to them, they will appreciate it more if they have to bleed for it..

I agree. Train, arm, and turn loose. Saves us from putting more of our guys in danger and allows for deniability if they do something that isn't in line with Geneva (even if we tell them to). But then everybody will scream and bitch "but look what happened with bin Laden!"

 

[Darky]

I agree. Train, arm, and turn loose. Saves us from putting more of our guys in danger and allows for deniability if they do something that isn't in line with Geneva (even if we tell them to). But then everybody will scream and bitch "but look what happened with bin Laden!"

And Saddam, and the mujahideen, and pretty much every foreign entity we've trained. We either end up fighting them later, or they go on to become tyrants who are eventually overthrown. I say we wash our hands of this, let them sort it out themselves. Let the world figure out how to help themselves and work together without daddy always doing it for them.

 

[Boatwrench]

. I say we wash our hands of this, let them sort it out themselves. Let the world figure out how to help themselves and work together without daddy always doing it for them.

X2

 

[Crawler]

This one's about controlling well over a trillion in Libyan oil for the British & EU through the UN, and setting related precedents...... nothing more.

 

[Ralph]

This one's about controlling well over a trillion in Libyan oil for the British & EU through the UN, and setting related precedents...... nothing more.

Prove it.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Prove it.

Why get defensive? Plenty of other acts of genocide going on around the world...and we're not involved with those like we are with Libya/Iraq. Of course it's about business interests. Don't be naive.

 

[XJEEPER]

“The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”
Senator Barack Obama-December the 20, 2007.

"Today, I authorized the armed forces of the United States to begin a limited military action in Libya.”
President Barack Obama-March 18, 2011


Can't wait to see how Obama justifies circumventing the Constitution and failing to get Congressional approval before engaging. It should be a good one, after all, he served as a law professor for 12 years, specializing in Constitutional Law.



I also want to know the costs associated with deploying the following to the Mediterranean:

• 112 Tomahawk Cruise missiles X $1.4M each = $156,800,000.00
  [*]2 B-2 Stealth Bombers flown round-trip from Missouri to Libya
  [*]40 Bombs dropped from B-2 bombers
  [*]1 Aircraft carrier-Mount Whitney
  [*]2 guided-missile destroyers- USS Stout and USS Barry
  [*]3 Nuclear submarines- USS Providence, USS Scranton and USS Florida.
  [*]2 Amphibious warships
  [*]Various support aircraft

 

[Ralph]

I just want to see people who make accusations put something up to prove what they say. Show me some evidence. Give me some facts. Here's a few questions: How much oil does Libya produce? How does that compare to how much oil is produced by other countries? Who buys Libyan oil? How much is it worth? If Qaddafi is ousted, will whoever is currently buying the oil lose that oil or will the next regime sell it to them? Please tell. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Crawler]

Dude, go do your own homework... just like I did.

 

[karstic]

And Saddam, and the mujahideen, and pretty much every foreign entity we've trained. We either end up fighting them later, or they go on to become tyrants who are eventually overthrown. I say we wash our hands of this, let them sort it out themselves. Let the world figure out how to help themselves and work together without daddy always doing it for them.

Bing!

 

[jbmoose]

And how much is it again that one of them there Tomahawks runs? I'm guessing whatever number it is, it's got six 0's behind it. Although I kind of agree with Rich, those 2 man teams would probably just sell that sh1t on the black market

 

[Darky]

Dude, go do your own homework... just like I did.

Part of a civil discussion means making statements and backing them up. "Dude, go do your own homework" is a copout.

 

[Crawler]

Part of a civil discussion means making statements and backing them up. "Dude, go do your own homework" is a copout.

I know... wasn't feelin' it at the time... sent him a pm.

Here's a good place to start - EIA doc on Libyan reserves...

"...Libya has the largest proven oil reserves in Africa but
most analysts agree that the country is still underexplored..."

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/libya/Full.html

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/libya/pdf.pdf

.

 

[mcantar18c]

Apparently the White House tossed out a number of perfectly good names before arriving at "Operation Odyssey Dawn":

10. Operation Nine Months In The Senate Didn't Prepare Me For This
9. Operation Organizing for Libya
8. Operation Double Standard
7. Operation FINE! I'll Do Something
6. Operation Enduring Narcissism
5. Operation So That's What the Red Button Does
4. Operation France Backed Me Into A Corner
3. Operation Start Without Me
2. Operation Unlike Bush Wars This One Is Justified Because...hey, look. A squirrel
1. Operation Aimless Fury

(Stolen from "The Pariot Post")

 

[Darky]

Apparently the White House tossed out a number of perfectly good names before arriving at "Operation Odyssey Dawn":

10. Operation Nine Months In The Senate Didn't Prepare Me For This
9. Operation Organizing for Libya
8. Operation Double Standard
7. Operation FINE! I'll Do Something
6. Operation Enduring Narcissism
5. Operation So That's What the Red Button Does
4. Operation France Backed Me Into A Corner
3. Operation Start Without Me
2. Operation Unlike Bush Wars This One Is Justified Because...hey, look. A squirrel
1. Operation Aimless Fury

(Stolen from "The Pariot Post")

Good stuff!

 

[Darky]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/24/obama-faces-political-storm-libya-congress-returns/

If it's so important and Congress is so fired up that they demand to have their say, why are they waiting? If only Congress has the ability to declare war and they don't want us over there, why wait? Why not come back in early and question Obama's actions? Could it be it's all a farce? Could it be that they are just saying what they think we want to hear to placate the masses, distract us by making us look at this "fight" between the president and Congress, while trying to sneak something else through?

For you Fox News haters, here's CNN saying essentially the same thing.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/03/24/libya.obama.criticism/index.html