Lets talk custom axles

[Lincoln]

I'd like to have the larger 30 spline stubs. I'd also like to have shorter spindles and stubs, since with the 3" bead lock rings I run I should be able to ditch the hub protectors, which work great but are very heavy.

However, I keep wondering about the strength of the thinner and shorter splindle. It's not a big deal for rockcrawling, but I think about smacking a big rock while hauling ass and bending the spindle. I remember CRASH's incident of bending a D44 spindle, and that was the thicker spindle for the 19 spline stub. I don't know how much of an issue it would really be, but it's something I wonder about.

I keep telling him if he didn't drive like an idiot that wouldn't be a problem. I don't think even the 60 stuff (unit bearing or spindle) will hold up to pegging a rock at speed. The large bearing spindle is what came stock under many of te 3/4T pickups also. Somethings going to give.

I also wonder how balanced the entire assembly would be. If the larger stub gained 15% in strenth but the joint fails 10% behind that, I don't think it would be worth the trouble for the 5% gain.

That's why I've been leaning heavily towards building a hybrid. I've always thought that Warn's an CTM's in a 44 would about the equivalent of 35 spline spicer parts for the 60. If your breaking those (stroker + 37's hint hint) it's probably time to go for some real strenth increase.

Personally this is what I would build (damn I like to dream):
9" Housing with lighter tubes, 3/16" or 1/4" tubes and 60 knuckles. I would probably go with the Super Duty stuff for the shorter shaft, but if I was going to beat on it I would stay with the king pin stuff.

Truss it all the way accross the top. Heavier tubes gain strenth, but trussing it correctly with lighter tubes would keep the weight down and still have the flex control. Integrating the mounts with the truss would keep the overall height down for any clearance issues.

True Hi9 pig. Paul needs to take some measurments for us. The higher pinion should help with the CV binding during high speed attack runs as well as getting the drive shaft out of the rocks some more. Also the pinion would be offset to the drivers side so the actual center could be moved more towards the center to make room for the knuckles. They are expensive but not really that much more than an aftermarket HP 60 center, locker, and gears. The cost of the 9" housing offsets it a good amount.

It's getting easier to obtain 40 spline stuff for the outter (inner really isn't a problem on the 9") if you really need stupid strong.

 

[Matt S.]

Lincoln! That is a dream for me too. Have you priced something like that out? For us to build or a shop to build?

Why would you run superduty stuff?

I would think if your going 60, go kingpin. you can get new knuckles pretty well priced for aftermarket ones.

 

[Lincoln]

Lincoln! That is a dream for me too. Have you priced something like that out? For us to build or a shop to build?

Why would you run superduty stuff?

I would think if your going 60, go kingpin. you can get new knuckles pretty well priced for aftermarket ones.

We don't talk prices, just build. As a guess and using mostly used parts $3-5K, you build. Having someone like Sunray build it with new parts I could see $6K easy. $2200 for a 3rd and ARB is a major chunk. Axles can be had for $600, then CTM's $550, misc stuff $500, and then the housing. Currie wants $2200 for the F-450 outter setup if you go that route. Beating on your shit costs $$$.

My reasoning is buried in there for the super duty stuff. It is easier to keep the width down and the stub length is much shorter than a kingpin 60. A short stub means the actual hub in the center of the wheel protrudes less. Don't have to worry about taking a hub off on a rock as easy. After market king pin stuff is nice, but most of us don't need the added stregth. It ends up just costing more.

 

[Matt S.]

Superduty stuff... interesting? Without searching I am asking this stuff, so stuff it.

Do you have the 35 spline outers available? I like the idea of the shorter stubs.

I know everyone likes to do stuff right the first time. And I am a very big believer when it comes to axles.

I am hopefully going to make a desicion on this crap within a month or so. I would like to start buying the parts.

PaulS, do you feel it was truely worth the moolla to buy the Hi9. I know they have tire size recomendations. You feel they are necessary?

 

[Lincoln]

Superduty stuff... interesting? Without searching I am asking this stuff, so stuff it.

Do you have the 35 spline outers available? I like the idea of the shorter stubs.

You need to read my long ass posts better.

Option 2 using the Super Duty Knuckles:
The super poopy stuff is only 11.5" from the weld in the inner C to the wheel mounting surface. This helps with the width issue a bunch. I don't see the unit bearing or ball joints being an issue on a lighter rig with 40's or smaller. Currie claims they will take more though. The stock bearing (pre 2005) has to be bored to run 35 spline stubs. Warn hubs or regular drive flanges will still work. If you use hubs a step has to be cut while boring for accomodate a needle bearing for the stub.

PaulS, do you feel it was truely worth the moolla to buy the Hi9. I know they have tire size recomendations. You feel they are necessary?

Only the Currie 9 has the tire limitations that I know of. The true Hi9 is a much better deal in my opinion.
http://www.truehi9.com/index.html

 

[Matt S.]

haha.. reading would be a good thing wouldnt it.

 

[Lincoln]

haha.. reading would be a good thing wouldnt it.

You would think I might be smart enought to fix the grammer errors when quoting myself. :doh:

 

[Paul S]

True Hi9 pig. Paul needs to take some measurments for us. The higher pinion should help with the CV binding during high speed attack runs as well as getting the drive shaft out of the rocks some more. Also the pinion would be offset to the drivers side so the actual center could be moved more towards the center to make room for the knuckles. They are expensive but not really that much more than an aftermarket HP 60 center, locker, and gears. The cost of the 9" housing offsets it a good amount.

It's getting easier to obtain 40 spline stuff for the outter (inner really isn't a problem on the 9") if you really need stupid strong.

What do you want me to measure?
My True Hi9 is noticeably higher & shorter than my Currie HP9.
Other than being very high, the True Hi9 takes up very little space, especially compared to the Currie 3rd.

Paul

 

[Paul S]

PaulS, do you feel it was truely worth the moolla to buy the Hi9. I know they have tire size recomendations. You feel they are necessary?

They have no limitations, so yes, it was worth it for me.
My Currie HP9 often dictated how hard I'd push things, I was ready to not worry about it anymore.

Paul

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Sure did, no clearance issues at all.
It's rolling, but I need to bleed the brakes. I think I may have drilled out the brake-line block at a little bit of an angle as it's leaking.

Paul

I've heard this from you west coasters a couple times, but I just thought I would throw out that you can run Waggy brake calipers and they use the smaller banjo bolt so there is no need to drill out any XJ lines. The rest of the caliper is identical to the Chevy unit as far as I know. I know the mount is the same. They are less than $20 for a rebuilt caliper too. Jeff

 

[Lincoln]

I've heard this from you west coasters a couple times, but I just thought I would throw out that you can run Waggy brake calipers and they use the smaller banjo bolt so there is no need to drill out any XJ lines. The rest of the caliper is identical to the Chevy unit as far as I know. I know the mount is the same. They are less than $20 for a rebuilt caliper too. Jeff

:thumbup: I just picked some up yesterday.

 

[Lincoln]

What do you want me to measure?
My True Hi9 is noticeably higher & shorter than my Currie HP9.
Other than being very high, the True Hi9 takes up very little space, especially compared to the Currie 3rd.

Paul

1. Centerline of the tubes up.
2. Verticle center of the diff to the pinion. Offset of the pinion I guess. Is my assuption correct that it is offset to the passenger side in the rear and drives side for a front app?

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be worth the extra $$ to use one in front with the 60 knuckles. I could push the housing towards the center and still keep the driveline out of the header. That could free up a little more room for the 60 knuckles.

 

[BrettM]

This is anti-jeep, but so is Ford 9" axles, but Toyota axles have made leaps and bounds of progress in the last year or so. They are very light weight with excellent clearance, there are new birfs/shafts out now that are stronger than D60 Spicer stuff, there are hub upgrades, custom housings, HP centers, factory E-lockers, very strong gears if you keep it to 4.88 and below and cryo-treating available for the gears, etc, etc, etc...

here's some good places to start:

http://www.diamondaxle.com/front_steering.htm
http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/

 

[Lincoln]

This is anti-jeep, but so is Ford 9" axles, but Toyota axles have made leaps and bounds of progress in the last year or so. They are very light weight with excellent clearance, there are new birfs/shafts out now that are stronger than D60 Spicer stuff, there are hub upgrades, custom housings, HP centers, factory E-lockers, very strong gears if you keep it to 4.88 and below and cryo-treating available for the gears, etc, etc, etc...

here's some good places to start:

http://www.diamondaxle.com/front_steering.htm
http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com/

Have you priced the custom housings? $1000 Pretty steep when you could almost get a Tera 60 front housing for that.

I think the Toy's are a good option for 35's and down, maybe 36's. But with a 6 cyl and low gears I start to worry about the ring gear strenth. With 4 cyl I've seem them hold up to some abusing with 38's a 5.71's, but on the otherhand I've seen guys with 5.29's and 36's break them once a year. I think the R&P setup is critical.

If your willing to change to a passenger side drop I see it feasable, but you have to run wheel spacers to get the width in the 60" range. That might become an issue with heavy tires. To get a drives side drop I don't think the dollars are worth it. The front axles are a clamshell design with a top and bottom half. There are no actual tubes which makes any custom width a PITA.

I've been researching the Toy option for dad's YJ. I think the only way to do it and still keep the pricing within reason is to take a rear housing and retube it for a front app, then weld the balls from a front housing to it. The rears are a design like the Ford with a center section and seperate tubes. I haven't had the desire to cut a front housing up and see how the housing ends are put together.

BTW, dad's e-locker had one of the pickups for the limit switch desinigrate making it so it wouldn't unlock. That part isn't available as a replacement. A new actuator is $450 and we found a used one for $250. If it does it again that will be the end of the e-lock and Downy's manual cable looks like a hunk of crap. I'm losing faith in them rapidly. There should be three pickup tabs in the picture below.

 

[Matt S.]

I think toys are great axles. But 40s and a strong 4.0 would kill them on the street. I want to run the deepest gears possible. If its Hi9, then 5.38. If its another configuration, I would like to see 6+:1 in the diff.

 

[BrettM]

both understandable arguements, just throwing it out there.

what 39.5s do you plan to run on the street, are you going to have a tow rig? Iroks? TSLs? My understanding is that Iroks won't last long at all on the street. If you're looking at the Iroks, you should consider the 42s, they are only a tiny bit taller but have much more tread depth and a squarer shape.

With 40s on the street I would definitely want 6+ gears, even in the 7s would probably be fine since I would guess such a beast wouldn't see any time over 65mph.

 

[Matt S.]

I am REALLY REALLY thinking about trying the new Pitbull tires out. By that time, they should have either proven themselves good or bad. Its either those or the Maxxis Terrapordors (sp?) I can get them in 39.5" or 40" on 17" rims.

I might have a trailer, but to be totally honest. I dont want one. I REALLY want to drive to places and be preparred. But who knows, for me, this is a year plus off.

 

[Lincoln]

The ratio is a delima. I predict your pocket book is going to get very light.

 

[Matt S.]

Why you say that? Gears are gears. maybe a little more in cost. But sometime you have no choice. Yea, my pocket book will get light. But I save alot, and can buy stuff slowly until I have collected all the parts. I am in no rush.

 

[Lincoln]

Why you say that? Gears are gears. maybe a little more in cost. But sometime you have no choice. Yea, my pocket book will get light. But I save alot, and can buy stuff slowly until I have collected all the parts. I am in no rush.

Just to get everything you want (justified) it's going to be tough. The volvo axles are a good idea and are fairly cheap. Only everything I've done that started cheap became a cash magnet quick.

Was it Avalanche or Poison Spyder that made the Ford 9" with Portals? You could get the gears, but only with the low pinion 9. It might end up being the same pinion height as a standard axle. The were $10K or something like that though.

For a portal this one doesn't sound bad.:
http://www.stazworks.com/axels.html