Lets talk custom axles

I thought about doing the 9/60 hybrid deal, but the for me the cons outweighed the pros.
Cons being that a 9/60 is MUCH heavier than a 9/44 & it can't be built as narrow as I like, not to mention the substantial added cost of 60 junk.

Paul
 
First, Paul what are your specs on the front end? I know you are number one with wieght concern. #2 is strength.

For me, I need strength then wieght. It looks like 39.5"s are whats to roll under when the time comes around. Tire size and suspension ideas is why I am looking at building one off axles.

Here is what I feel about portals:

They kick ass for clearance, but its fact that if you REALLY get on them, they WILL break. The boxes are the weak part. Comp buggies break these things. Now, my goal is 4300lbs or less. So that plus 40s would be enough to break that . Or i think.

Should we wieght and outwieght the difference between outers? I suppose thats where it matters?

D44s are readily available. Flat tops are doable. 21pline outer though? not sure. Seen 44 outers break left and right with 37s plus. Cheaper than 60s or portals

D60s are not so available, and would really be ebst to get aftermarket through Crane or Dedenbear. $$$$$$$$ Dont break to often with 37s plus. Prolly same price as portals.

Its all opinion, but in a dream, what COULD be the ulimate lightwieght killer axle?
 
I've always liked the 9" front with 60 outers. The 44/60 is a nice hybrid but it limits you to an ARB. I think a 9"/60 front and rear is a great combo. Lightweight and strong. Great aftermarket support for the 9" center section. Especially now with the High 9, Hp 9" centersection's front and rear with 60 outers...................:dunno:

hybrid9.jpg
 
91 Jeep Project said:
I've always liked the 9" front with 60 outers. The 44/60 is a nice hybrid but it limits you to an ARB. I think a 9"/60 front and rear is a great combo. Lightweight and strong. Great aftermarket support for the 9" center section. Especially now with the High 9, Hp 9" centersection's front and rear with 60 outers...................:dunno:

hybrid9.jpg

Why would it limit you to an ARB? You can get HP9 35 spline Detroit, LSD, spool, etc...
I think you're limited to an ARB if you go 40 spline, but not 35.
Paul
 
Scrappy said:
First, Paul what are your specs on the front end? I know you are number one with wieght concern. #2 is strength.

For me, I need strength then wieght. It looks like 39.5"s are whats to roll under when the time comes around. Tire size and suspension ideas is why I am looking at building one off axles.

Here is what I feel about portals:

They kick ass for clearance, but its fact that if you REALLY get on them, they WILL break. The boxes are the weak part. Comp buggies break these things. Now, my goal is 4300lbs or less. So that plus 40s would be enough to break that . Or i think.

Should we wieght and outwieght the difference between outers? I suppose thats where it matters?

D44s are readily available. Flat tops are doable. 21pline outer though? not sure. Seen 44 outers break left and right with 37s plus. Cheaper than 60s or portals

D60s are not so available, and would really be ebst to get aftermarket through Crane or Dedenbear. $$$$$$$$ Dont break to often with 37s plus. Prolly same price as portals.

Its all opinion, but in a dream, what COULD be the ulimate lightwieght killer axle?

Correct, for me weight was my 1st consideration, strength came 2nd.

I had Currie build a shaved housing with 44 ends, no brackets.
Currie HP 3rd, 31 spline Warn inners, D44 Warn stubs, drive flanges', CTM's, hi-steer, 3 link, etc...

The housing with brackets welded on weighs 70lbs, the 3rd weighs 71lbs, the complete front end (hub to hub) weighs 330lbs.

I have no strength gains over a 44 where it matters, maybe a little lighter, but probably not enough to make a difference. The only reason I went with a 9 over a 44 was because I had a $1500 3rd that needed a home, & I was able to order a housing locally & avoid searching the junkyards for an HP44.

If I were going bigger than 37's I'd have gone 9/60.

Paul
 
Paul S said:
Yeah, that's actually the only reason I ended-up with a 3 link :laugh3:

Paul

Did everything fit as designed? Is it rolling yet?

CRASH
 
CRASH said:
Did everything fit as designed? Is it rolling yet?

CRASH

Sure did, no clearance issues at all.
It's rolling, but I need to bleed the brakes. I think I may have drilled out the brake-line block at a little bit of an angle as it's leaking.

Paul
 
91 Jeep Project said:
That was pertaining to a hybrid 44/60, 35 spline ARB is the only option......... :lecture:

There is a 35 spline Detroit for a D44, that's an option for the Superior Super 44. When I built my front end that's what I wanted to use to build the D44/D60 that I was trying to do, but you couldn't buy the 35 spline Detroit seperate from the Super 44 kit. Don't know if Superior still has an exclusive on it, and whether you can get one or not. Back then, guys were still experimenting with D60 shafts resplined to 30 splines, but they weren't holding up...even Toys were breaking them because it went too far through the case hardening.
 
Goatman said:
There is a 35 spline Detroit for a D44, that's an option for the Superior Super 44. When I built my front end that's what I wanted to use to build the D44/D60 that I was trying to do, but you couldn't buy the 35 spline Detroit seperate from the Super 44 kit. Don't know if Superior still has an exclusive on it, and whether you can get one or not. Back then, guys were still experimenting with D60 shafts resplined to 30 splines, but they weren't holding up...even Toys were breaking them because it went too far through the case hardening.

The detroit in the super 44's are 33 spline. Yes they can be bought seperate. ARB makes both the 33 and 35 spline flavors.
 
Some handy info I've thought and thought and thought some more about.

30 spline stubs using the standard 44 knuckles.

Small bearing GM spindle:
Bore at end of spindle = 1.290"
Thickness at outter bearing = .170"
Shaft spindle bearing surface = 1.31"

Thoughts bore the spindle out .030". This would give about .005" clearance at the end of the spindle for the stub. Then have a 30 spline 1.31" stub made. Only drops the side thickness down to .155" which shouldn't be too much of a loss. The regular 30 spline lockouts for the CJ internal kit or the XJ/YJ/TJ conversion will work with the 44 hub.

Another route that will work is to go the CJ setup route. If you use the CJ spindle (requires a bored spindle for 30 stubs otherwise 27 spline) and buy Warn's internal locking hub kit. Nice because it drops about an inch of the stub shaft. The people I have talked to claim there is a loss in strenght because of less flex in the shorter stub. My theory is with 4340 stubs there isn't much flex anyway so they are still stronger than the standard 19 spline stubs. For the brakes you use the GM caliper mount and caliper. This requires a slightly (believe .015") offset wheel bearing to keep inner (?) pad from dragging.

As everyone knows I drive like a blind old lady. I've taken out four hubs so far on curbs and the 1" less in stub length sounds very appealing.
 
One more post. This for the 44/60 idea.

I've got everything pretty well narrowed down and collecting a few parts here and there. I've had a 78 Ferd axle with the cast mounts for a while now. They use the 3.125" tubes which is pretty close to the 60 (ball joint and king pin from what I've measured.

Option 1 using king pin knuckles:
Width is a major issue. I measured 10.5" from where the inner C's weld is to the mounting surface for the wheel on my 44. The king pin 60's are 13.5". Since the 60 inner C's are almost 2" thick at the tube I don't see a problem milling off around 1" on the inside side (Kazman tip :) ). That gets it down to 2" different. I also figured another 1"-1.5" could get had by raising the coil mounts a couple of inches up off the top of the tube. On my current setup my coils bow out to the axle mounts about 3/4" so by raising a few inches the mounts could be moved inward on the bridge and the 60 inner C slopes pretty quickly which would allow it to tuck under the mount some. Hopefully this would keep the width down around 62 or 63 inches.

Option 2 using the Super Duty Knuckles:
The super poopy stuff is only 11.5" from the weld in the inner C to the wheel mounting surface. This helps with the width issue a bunch. I don't see the unit bearing or ball joints being an issue on a lighter rig with 40's or smaller. Currie claims they will take more though. The stock bearing (pre 2005) has to be bored to run 35 spline stubs. Warn hubs or regular drive flanges will still work. If you use hubs a step has to be cut while boring for accomodate a needle bearing for the stub.

The high steer setup is a little more tricky though. The knuckle has to be milled flat and the three studs end up fairly close together. Most are running a spacer tieing the new upper arm to the factory lower for added strength and I haven't heard of any problems even with hydo assist.

All of the Dana 50/60 knuckles are the same except for the F-450 which runs a lot larger rotor and caliper bracket (cast into the knuckle on all). Currie and other aftermarket caliper brackets for willwoods only work on the F-450 knuckle. So if you use the 250 or 350 knuckle you either have to run the stock brakes with 16" or larger wheels or come up with your own mount. Since these have a bastard wheel patern it would be best to drill out the hub and rotor to another pattern.

I like the super poopy option. The WMS to the end of the hub is aroudn 1.5" shorter than a 44 and a bunch shorter than a 60. Also the tighter design in general makes it easier to keep the width down. Problem is cost of parts. The unit bearings new are around $300 by themselves. Best case would be finding a whole housing that is in good enough condition for a resonable price, this has come up pretty short on my end. On the one bend D50 housing I found the yard would only part it out to the tune $700-$1000 (I got tired of listening). Complete axles are running higher than the king pin stuff I've found.

When putting the 1.5" shafts into a front 44 housing I haven't found a factory style seal that will work. The bore from the inside of the housing is too tight to make larger so a normal flat faced seal would have to be used. I didn't see this as much of an issue since I wouldn't plan on changing them often. The OD on a standard 44 is 2.625" so finding a seal that would work on a 60 shaft shouldn't be a problem.
 
Lincoln said:
30 spline stubs using the standard 44 knuckles.

Small bearing GM spindle:
Bore at end of spindle = 1.290"
Thickness at outter bearing = .170"
Shaft spindle bearing surface = 1.31"

Thoughts bore the spindle out .030". This would give about .005" clearance at the end of the spindle for the stub. Then have a 30 spline 1.31" stub made. Only drops the side thickness down to .155" which shouldn't be too much of a loss. The regular 30 spline lockouts for the CJ internal kit or the XJ/YJ/TJ conversion will work with the 44 hub.

Another route that will work is to go the CJ setup route. If you use the CJ spindle (requires a bored spindle for 30 stubs otherwise 27 spline) and buy Warn's internal locking hub kit. Nice because it drops about an inch of the stub shaft. The people I have talked to claim there is a loss in strenght because of less flex in the shorter stub. My theory is with 4340 stubs there isn't much flex anyway so they are still stronger than the standard 19 spline stubs. For the brakes you use the GM caliper mount and caliper. This requires a slightly (believe .015") offset wheel bearing to keep inner (?) pad from dragging.

As everyone knows I drive like a blind old lady. I've taken out four hubs so far on curbs and the 1" less in stub length sounds very appealing.

I'd like to have the larger 30 spline stubs. I'd also like to have shorter spindles and stubs, since with the 3" bead lock rings I run I should be able to ditch the hub protectors, which work great but are very heavy.

However, I keep wondering about the strength of the thinner and shorter splindle. It's not a big deal for rockcrawling, but I think about smacking a big rock while hauling ass and bending the spindle. I remember CRASH's incident of bending a D44 spindle, and that was the thicker spindle for the 19 spline stub. I don't know how much of an issue it would really be, but it's something I wonder about.
 
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