leaky axle -- D44 drum brake question(s)

[MMIXJ]

2 issues at hand:

1) last summer i did my first brake job on the D44 rear, but the shop wouldn't turn the drums, so i bought new ones along w/ the shoes, etc.

however, once the drums were torqued, they would not turn -- they were machined slightly too shallow and were making contact w/ the outer edge of the shoes (or so i surmised). i returned them and got another set somewhere else -- same problem (they're probably all made in the same factory overseas somewhere). i didn't have time to have the jeep out of commission long to troubleshoot, so i just re-used the old drums and all was well.

2) this summer brakes are screeching and not working well, so i figured it was probably the worn drums. however when i pulled the passenger drum, it was covered in oil/grease/gook.

first dumb question: does this mean that both the inner and outer seals need replaced? the haynes manual says if the backing plate is wet, the outer seal needs replaced, but wouldn't the gear oil first have to get past the inner seal, too?

second dumb question: i pulled the shaft and it appears the bearing race is still in the housing -- does this mean i need to replace the bearing (i.e. should it be one piece)?

any thoughts about the first issue w/ the aftermarket drums not being deep enough for 2.5" shoes? the axle was pulled from an '87 XJ.

thanks in advance. jeep is up on jackstands awaiting some wisdom.

 

[Shorty]

make sure the drums are for the D44 and not the D35-- the drum needs to be wider for the 2.5" shoe. I've seen more than one parts store that doesn't show the 2.5" deep drum in their lookup and will tell you the D35 drum "should be right."

I don't remember seeing an inner seal on a rear D44-- the axle juice needs to be able to flow in the tube to splash lube the axle bearing, IIRC.

You'll need to have the bearing pressed off the axle to replace the seal, so I'd definitely take that opportunity to replace the bearing as well.

 

[Locked98GC]

I rebuilt my D44 a few months back. There is only an outer seal and I would replace the bearing like Shorty says.

Tell the parts jocky you need the drum for an 88 Jeep Cherokee D44 if you didn't already. Rock Auto is another option.

 

[87manche]

make sure the drums are for the D44 and not the D35-- the drum needs to be wider for the 2.5" shoe. I've seen more than one parts store that doesn't show the 2.5" deep drum in their lookup and will tell you the D35 drum "should be right."

I don't remember seeing an inner seal on a rear D44-- the axle juice needs to be able to flow in the tube to splash lube the axle bearing, IIRC.

You'll need to have the bearing pressed off the axle to replace the seal, so I'd definitely take that opportunity to replace the bearing as well.

all of this is correct. There are 2" and 2.5" drums.

No inner axle seal.

Take the time while you have the backing plates and such unbolted to go ahead and do the wheel cylinders. They're only $10 a side, and you don't want to clean up another mess inside your drums when an old one starts leaking. You're going to have it all taken apart anyhow.

 

[MMIXJ]

thanks, all, for the replies... it is starting to make some sense.

i was looking at an exploded diagram of a 44 from the dana site which illustrated an inner seal, but on closer inspection that part number is listed under "variable parts", so presumably not utilized in this configuration for an XJ.

one more question (which i think i know the answer to): the bearing race is still in the housing -- i assume i should pull this out and not re-use w/ new bearings? it seemed a little confusing in that some of the pix of bearings in the online parts stores show just the actual tapered bearings, which would mate w/ the race, but other sites show a complete bearing (that is the race is presumably a part of it). is it safe to assume that any new bearing would include the race?

...wheel cylinders, eh? this is getting more expensive by the minute, but you raise a good point.

the good news is the NAPA in boulder will turn my old drums, so at least that problem will be addressed.

 

[Shorty]

thanks, all, for the replies... it is starting to make some sense.

i was looking at an exploded diagram of a 44 from the dana site which illustrated an inner seal, but on closer inspection that part number is listed under "variable parts", so presumably not utilized in this configuration for an XJ.

one more question (which i think i know the answer to): the bearing race is still in the housing -- i assume i should pull this out and not re-use w/ new bearings? it seemed a little confusing in that some of the pix of bearings in the online parts stores show just the actual tapered bearings, which would mate w/ the race, but other sites show a complete bearing (that is the race is presumably a part of it). is it safe to assume that any new bearing would include the race?

...wheel cylinders, eh? this is getting more expensive by the minute, but you raise a good point.

the good news is the NAPA in boulder will turn my old drums, so at least that problem will be addressed.

I think the inner seal is included in the parts diagrams because when used as a front axle, the D44 has one-- but not in the rear.

There are two different types of axle shaft bearings-- tapered cone bearings with a removable race, and flat roller bearings that are a complete assembly. The tapered cone bearing has a higher load carrying capability and replicates the original type of bearing-- I'd stick with that style (yes, you'd want to replace the race when changing the bearing)

 

[MMIXJ]

so if i understand, i need the following:

bearing race, bearing retainer, tapered bearing, and outer seal.

looking at NAPA online, the wheel bearings appear to be flat style; but the pics for the diff/axle bearings look right (tapered), but those aren't the ones i need, right?

diff

wheel

(and actually they don't even list any D44 wheel bearings).

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/R...50038+2038004+502003+502999+27991&Ntk=Keyword

 

[Wayne Sihler]

so if i understand, i need the following:

bearing race, bearing retainer, tapered bearing, and outer seal.

looking at NAPA online, the wheel bearings appear to be flat style; but the pics for the diff/axle bearings look right (tapered), but those aren't the ones i need, right?

diff

wheel

(and actually they don't even list any D44 wheel bearings).

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/R...50038+2038004+502003+502999+27991&Ntk=Keyword

You want a "Set 10", this should come with the bearing and race and the retainer--the steel ring---. Also remember the axle seal.

 

[Shorty]

You want a "Set 10", this should come with the bearing and race and the retainer--the steel ring---. Also remember the axle seal.

X2^^
"set 10" definitely rings a bell-- I'd say get them and carry them to the machine shop to be pressed on-- if they aren't correct, they'll let you know.

 

[N8N_99xj]

The "inner seal" was definitely used on older Dana 44's - every Studebaker I've ever owned used an inner seal, then the bearing (which was packed with bearing grease like a front wheel bearing) then an outer felt seal/retainer. You can actually replace everything but the bearing itself without a press as they also used tapered axle shafts with a separate hub, which theoretically ought to work well but in practice involves snapilarity when paired with a high torque engine and a heavy foot.

I suspect that the newer 44's are much more conventional in that the inner seal was deleted and the gear oil lubes the bearings, although I've never worked on one.

 

[MMIXJ]

got the new bearing/seal pressed on the shaft and the old race out finally --- took 4 stores to find a tool to pull that race (and the concept seemed a bit foreign to some of them?).

anything special i need to know for the re-install tomorrow? supposedly the bearing is pre-lubed. i assume just a touch of grease inside the housing for the new race? any pitfalls to watch out for, or tips? (seems pretty straightforward).

thanks in advance.

 

[87manche]

if the race doesn't fit tightly in the tube you'll want some green locktite to secure it. You do not want the race to spin in the tube.
Other than that, grab something that fits the race and drive it in. Make sure it's going in square to the tube, or you'll get it halfway in and be stuck, then probably hose the race getting it back out.

 

[MMIXJ]

well the new race is on the shaft w/ the new bearing... are you saying to somehow pull the race and insert it separately in the housing first, then insert the shaft w/ the bearing?

if the race doesn't fit tightly in the tube you'll want some green locktite to secure it. You do not want the race to spin in the tube.
Other than that, grab something that fits the race and drive it in. Make sure it's going in square to the tube, or you'll get it halfway in and be stuck, then probably hose the race getting it back out.

 

[Shorty]

no-- I remember pulling a race and a tapered bearing out of my 44, but the replacement (pretty sure it was the "set 10") had a flat roller bearing as a replacement. The rollers in the flat set are not designed to be removed from the race as with the tapered set. Grease it and stick it-- you should be fine.

 

[the_weirdo]

well the new race is on the shaft w/ the new bearing... are you saying to somehow pull the race and insert it separately in the housing first, then insert the shaft w/ the bearing?

I generally test the fit the bearing into the opening before pressing them onto the shafts - if it isn't sloppy in the hole then you are good-to-go. But in this case, I would just install it and run it. If the old race was not slipping, this one probably won't either - the tolerances tend to be pretty tight.

Edit: I agree with shorty. Run it.

 

[sam24th]

I just did mines today. Yes you should be using the Set 10. The race is suppose to stay on the bearing. Just stick the entire assembly in. I also suggest putting a small ring of RTV on the axle seal. I have heard of seals leaking a tiny bit even after replacing them, so I figured Id rather be safe than sorry, so I put a small ring of RTV around the seal before sticking it in a seating it.