law in NJ with no doors

[Rob Mayercik]

He also said that needed both driverside and passenger mirrors.

This part I don't get - most cars didn't come with two outside mirrors until the late 80s or so. Are you telling me that this means that, for example, a 1984 Plymouth Reliant that rolled off the factory floor with no passenger-side outside rear-view mirror is in violation?

Or is it that if the vehicle originally came with two, it must always have two?

 

[chris_conant]

This part I don't get - most cars didn't come with two outside mirrors until the late 80s or so. Are you telling me that this means that, for example, a 1984 Plymouth Reliant that rolled off the factory floor with no passenger-side outside rear-view mirror is in violation?

Or is it that if the vehicle originally came with two, it must always have two?

I believe the officer really did not know. I waited for sometime while he made phone calls trying to find out. He basically went by the fact that since my jeep had 2-side mirrors stock it needs 2 side mirrors at all times. I thought the law required a driver side mirror and ether outside passenger or rearview mirror.

 

[CumminsJeep]

Havent had a single problem yet. I really dont think there is a law against it, but im sure some cop can still bust your balls

 

[scottmcneal]

Just go down and ask, plus have them SHOW you in there book..This way you know for sure what the law is..If it isn't in the book i would say you are safe...But you need to ask the police...
I run all the time with no doors, cops just look an smile..But i am in CA...

 

[ehall]

print the relevant vehicle code and stick it in the car

 

[chris_conant]

Well if the officer would go by the fact of the vehicle being un safe would fall under this nj statue

Unsafe Vehicle

39:3-44. Scope and effect
No person shall hereafter drive, move, park or be in custody of nor shall any owner or lessee hereafter cause or knowingly permit to be driven, moved or parked on any highway any vehicle, motor vehicle or motor-drawn vehicle or combination of vehicles which is in such unsafe condition as to endanger or be likely to endanger any person or property, or which does not contain those parts or is not at all times, equipped with such equipment in proper condition and adjustment as required in this article, or which is equipped in any manner in violation of this article. No person shall do any act forbidden or fail to perform any act required under this article.

I have been searching the nj motor vehicle laws. Can not find details on doors. Looks like it is up to the officer and then judge on what is considered unsafe.

 

[chris_conant]

This part I don't get - most cars didn't come with two outside mirrors until the late 80s or so. Are you telling me that this means that, for example, a 1984 Plymouth Reliant that rolled off the factory floor with no passenger-side outside rear-view mirror is in violation?

Or is it that if the vehicle originally came with two, it must always have two?

39:3-71. Mirrors
Every motor vehicle shall have rear view mirrors so located and angled as to give the driver adequate rear view vision. Every passenger automobile manufactured after January 1, 1965 and registered in this State, shall be equipped with an interior mirror and an exterior mirror on the driver's side. On and after January 1, 1965, every commercial motor vehicle registered in this State, other than a trailer or semitrailer, shall be equipped with an interior mirror and an exterior mirror on the driver's side, except that every such vehicle so constructed or loaded as to obstruct or obscure a rear view from an interior mirror shall, in lieu of an interior mirror, be equipped with an exterior mirror on the side of the vehicle opposite the driver's side. The director may by regulation establish other mirror requirements for special or unusual types of vehicles. Any person operating a motor vehicle without the equipment prescribed by this section shall, on conviction, be fined as provided in Revised Statutes 39:3-79.

 

[NJblackdeath4x4]

I was pulled over in Highland Park and given an "Unsafe Vehicle" ticket once. He didn't focus completely on the doors though, he mostly talked about the fact that my tires were sticking out too far and that I didn't have a proper inspection for a lifted vehicle. The first thing he said was "Where are you're doors?". I told him they were in my garage and he said to put them back on and then kinda lectured me that "Jeeps roll a lot" and since mine was lifted that it would roll easier and he's giving me a citation for my own safety. I had to go to court and I knew some people who knew some people so it ended up getting dropped. While I was meeting with the prosecutor he was looking through the book o' law and couldn't find any reason why I was given a ticket for driving a lifted Jeep with no doors...I never mentioned it was a Cherokee lol. Maybe one of the reasons I was stopped was because I was enjoying the fine tunings of All Shall Perish :guitar: a little too loudly...\m/

I always thought it was kinda funny cause he pretty much told me to lower my Jeep, get smaller tires, and put my doors on. At the time I was at 4 inches, 33s and had the front doors off...now I'm at 6 inches, 35s, and have all 4 doors off. I did the exact opposite lol.

And a couple other times I have been asked about it by cops who don't know the legality or they give me a heads up that not having side mirrors could get me in trouble.

Other than that I've had no problems since Feb '09

 

[Rock2pus]

where did you get a copy of the code

I got a copy of it when I was in college for criminal justice back in the day...

 

[vetteboy]

Just go down and ask, plus have them SHOW you in there book..This way you know for sure what the law is..If it isn't in the book i would say you are safe...

No, then you just get labeled as an annoying pain in the ass, and you get ticketed for all the little crap that they'd usually overlook.

You won't find anything in Title 39 nor the NJAC regarding doors. You will find references to 'as manufactured', 'meeting relevant standards' (meaning the Federal side-impact tests that all auto companies need to comply with), etc.

It's a gray area but it's one that puts the burden of proof on you if it comes down to it, because the state can write it off as 'unsafe' and leave you little to no recourse for appeal. Even if you try and get the state engineers to look at it, do you honestly think they're going to tell you that removing the doors doesn't reduce the safety of the vehicle?

Like I said, I printed out all the Federal crash-test information and brought it to court, not because I had any real case to make, but because I hoped to muddy the waters enough that it wasn't worth their time to deal with it. That worked. Just gotta take your licks when you get 'em and move on.

 

[CumminsJeep]

I spoke too soon....I got pulled over yesterday in my town. Luckily I knew the cop because im on the FD in town but he mentioned NOTHING about having my doors off. All he said was "you know you cant have the tires stick out past the fenders right?" I said "yes sir, and I have flares at home." He said "ok I guess thats what the drilled holes in the fenders are for?" I said yes and he said ok bye. Nothing to it. Whats funny is my brother was behind me in the TJ which the tires stick out past the fenders too lol. they just frown upon lifted stuff with a little mud on the tires because its assumed we were wheeling illegally.

Like Chris said, there is nothing in Title 39 that states anything about not running doors. It's just a gray area.

 

[NJblackdeath4x4]

I had a very similar thing happen to me. In Milltown I've had 3 cops pull me over and then let me go for being a firefighter. The last time the cop stopped me just to give me a heads up about my tires sticking out and said "I know it's cool to drive around with no doors but you need mirrors" I told him I was picking up TJ mirrors soon and he said ok and left.

 

[mcgoaw]

Besides a Jeep there are two other vehicles that offered removeable doors, that I know of at least, the early 70's Ford Bronco's and the old Toyota Land Cruisers. ALL 3 vehicles have interior roll bars not because the doors come off but because the roofs came off. I guess if you really wanted to put deep thought into the strength and safety of removing the doors off your XJ, I would say the doors are adding stability and support to the entire uni-body structure of the Jeep. Whereas the other vehicles I referred to rely on their frames not the body 'tubs' for strength. However, as most guys said, it really depends on the cop, and if your rig looks set-up for it. Maybe a 5 point harness, those add on tube style doors, maybe. Something that doesn't make it look like your at risk of falling out while driving. I don't think someone with a bone stock ride, cushy seats, and the factory seat belt is going to pull that off, ya know. Just my .02

 

[NJblackdeath4x4]

The doors add zero stability to the unibody

 

[96xjbeater]

i took mine off an cop told me ijus need mirrors and i drive mine 80 miles a day to work and home and pass state cops all day no problems yet

 

[dennis461]

Most local and state law enforcement officials (IMHO) have no desire to escalate to the Federal Law.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration</B>
49 CFR Part 571
[Docket No. NHTSA-2004-19840]</B>
RIN 2127-AH34</B>
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards;
Door Locks and Door Retention Components and Side Impact Protection
​

​

 

[NJLiftLaws]

As Vette stated, doors are a grey area. The lumped statue of 'Unsafe Vehicle' applies. It can be applied to body integrity, lack of mirror(s) and an entire range of non-specific observations made by the officer.

In most cases those driving doorless XJ's probably have plenty of other violations that can exploited. The 3 most common being exposed tires, lack of mud flaps and lack of high rise inspection.

View this as gambling. While you can win, the odds are with the house. And unlike gambling, the best you can win is zero to low out-of-pocket expenses. This doesn't factor in the time you invested to fight the violation(s), etc.

 

[NJLiftLaws]

i took mine off an cop told me ijus need mirrors and i drive mine 80 miles a day to work and home and pass state cops all day no problems yet

Agreed. The key word being 'yet'.. I see 5 violations on a 10 second view.

You may never have an issue. As long as you're OK with the potential risk more power to you.

 

[96xjbeater]

yea mud flaps, flares,no sticker, cracked windshield, but i got mirrors