L.A.p.d.

[Dirt]

I Just Want To Clear Up The Term "hippie" Years Of Watching South Park Has Tainted My Definition. Hippie = Bleeding Heart Cry Baby Or... Bitch In General. Please Excuse The Terminology And The Caps Lock (the Button's Broke On My Work Comp.)

 

[ECKSJAY]

Sorry my smell checker and grammar program are in German. And most of my writing has either been tech. speak or spot reports.
My mouth is closed ( insert comma here) I have removed the comma key from my key board and I will slink quietly away into the distance. :wave:

No worries man... My comment was a bit outta line. I apologize. Please don't go anywhere.

 

[dandecicco]

All I have to say about COPS in any high crime environment is that if a cop tells a person to stop and that person runs, that is a crime. If that same cop then catches that criminal after a foot chase and the criminal resists arrests, then that cop needs to beat the snot out of that criminal to keep that cop safe in order to detain and end the conflict. If that same criminal draws a gun, he is now target practice. But then the family of said bad guy will civilly sue those cops and the department because the bad guy was killed unfairly blab la bla. Another place and another time . . .

A person draws a gun on a cop (or any person) and starts shooting, he needs to be taken out and if that is with 60 guns and a 1000 rounds, well that person shouldn’t have endangered others lives. The only thing that should concern people is that those bullets cost money and maybe they could use a little less of the tax payers money in the future.

If a man holds a baby in front of him as a shield and is shooting at everything and anything and he cannot be taken out, hopefully there is a good sharp shooter around to take out that bad guy without hitting the child. If a person is using a baby as a human shield, chances are that the bad guy will kill the child anyways (you know not stable and such). There is at least a better chance of saving that child’s life by taking out the bad guy.

Take what happened in Russia a while back. People were up in arms about the cops going in shooting, but they probably saved more lives than would have been taken. After the smoke cleared, it was obvious that the terrorists were killing children off as sport. I would quote Spock, “It is logical. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

A car is a lethal weapon. If a crack head is driving and takes off when asked to stop, they are now driving a lethal weapon down the street and possibly through a house or a daycare. After attempting to stop the bad guy and nothing works except for the 600 rounds, well it is better than killing grandma sitting in her rocking chair in her living wihen that run-away car crashes through her wall and splashes her all over the floor. I guess her grandson, little Johnny, gets to learn about his own mortality for the first time since the cops didn’t use deadly force.

As for that guy saying he was scared to stop, give me a brake. He will be rich because of the bleeding hearts in LA.

I have been stopped by cops before in the past. Each time I turned off my rig, put my hands on the wheel, and sat very still. I then followed their orders with clear and slow motions. I answered their questions and tried to be helpful. Every time I have driven away with a warning. These were all for minor infractions such as my off-road rear lights were on driving down the road b/c I forgot to turn them off or my tires stuck out too far after my trimming. I have even had firearms in my rig while going camping when I was pulled over because my gas tank door was open. The first thing I did was inform the cop about the gun and he did put his hand on his gun. But b/c I did the civil thing, he was able to do his job without shooting me and I was able to drive away with a closed gas tank without any problems.

Now if I didn't say anything about the firearm and reached by it for something, I would deserve what might happen if the cop felt his life was on the line.

In the end, look at what a cop has to do for a living and look at what a criminal does for a living. Who do you want to fire 600 rounds off at any given time?

 

[Kejtar]

All I have to say about COPS in any high crime environment is that if a cop tells a person to stop and that person runs, that is a crime. If that same cop then catches that criminal after a foot chase and the criminal resists arrests, then that cop needs to beat the snot out of that criminal to keep that cop safe in order to detain and end the conflict. If that same criminal draws a gun, he is now target practice.

Very true!

I have been stopped by cops before in the past. Each time I turned off my rig, put my hands on the wheel, and sat very still. I then followed their orders with clear and slow motions. I answered their questions and tried to be helpful. Every time I have driven away with a warning. These were all for minor infractions such as my off-road rear lights were on driving down the road b/c I forgot to turn them off or my tires stuck out too far after my trimming. I have even had firearms in my rig while going camping when I was pulled over because my gas tank door was open. The first thing I did was inform the cop about the gun and he did put his hand on his gun. But b/c I did the civil thing, he was able to do his job without shooting me and I was able to drive away with a closed gas tank without any problems.

Now if I didn't say anything about the firearm and reached by it for something, I would deserve what might happen if the cop felt his life was on the line.

I thought that was the common sense stuff till I read some news reports about people doing some REALLY stupid things and then being surprised that they got shot.

 

[Paul S]

IMO, the problem with the LAPD is

A) they are woefully lacking in numbers
&
B) their hands are tied thanks to the likes of Maxine Waters & Jesse Jackson.

I believe if we had approximately double the police force we'd equal NY on a per capita representation, & yes, I'd welcome twice as many LAPD officers.

Our officers have zero incentive to 'get out there' to meet the people & look for potential trouble, as it simply exposes them to unfounded complaints, which will be made legit by Waters, Jackson & media long before there is any investigation.

As far as getting harassed by the LAPD, not my experience. Been driveing here for 20 years. Got about a dozen tickets as a teen driver, got a warning that any more tickets would result in the loss of my license, haven't been pulled over since. It's safe to say that as a teen, I had it comming.

Cops are out there risking their lives everyday for a thankless job that most of us wouldn't touch, including me. I thank them every chance I get & then head on my merry way.

Paul

 

[dandecicco]

One more thing:

Why is it in this country people get mad at the law and law abiding citizens whem criminals are the ones to direct anger towards? But the criminals and the criminal's families always come up on top. Good citizens are unprotected while the criminals have diplomatic immunity to do what ever they want.

Example: Get mad at the cops for shooting a guy and killing him but do not get mad at the bad guy who was jacked up on crack, had a record a mile long for violent crimes, and was holding a bloody knife in his hands while he was fighting the cops after he killed someone’s wife. The ACLU will have a field day with that one.

Damn the cops for killing him. It is their fault! He was just misunderstood. Lefties . . . they would give them your money (through taxes) to help the suffering of family members that just had thier crack headed, murding, rapist cousin killed by a cop during an arrest because he fought back and because he was just too "scared to stop".

 

[dandecicco]

Our officers have zero incentive to 'get out there' to meet the people & look for potential trouble, as it simply exposes them to unfounded complaints, which will be made legit by Waters, Jackson & media long before there is any investigation.


Paul

X2

 

[8Mud]

Why the heck should the police not be held to the same standard as everybody else.
Generalities are always wrong to some degree. But many of the cops I´ve known, where under the impression, that the rules where for other people and didn´t apply to them. Any of you policeman out there, tell me I´m wrong.
The kid they beat the snot out of today, may just be tomorrows cop killer. Do you honestly think, he is gonna vote yes for a budget increase, so there can be more police.
They have a shitty job, hey I´m a plumber digging around in others people crap, its no excuse for sociopathic behavior.
` Really only three options, when your scared out of your wits, freeze, run or fight. If you get all sweaty because you have to chase down some kid, is beating the snot out of him, actually going to accomplish anything worthwhile.
I got in an arguement with my girlfriend, the police showed up, they cuffed me and an officer took my wallet out to get at my ID, had $800 in there, if your a trucker you know what road money is, it´s what the boss gives you in case you get in trouble. Cop started pealing every other twenty out of the stack and asked me if I was a dealer, because I had all the cash. Dum arsed Chuck says out loud, so the other cops could hear, hey that´s my money. That was the second time I had the snot beat out of me. When he was finished, me and the other cops were all looking at him with disgust.
I had a Dodge Lancer station wagon, in the early 70`s faded red and rust, with a hemi motor in it, torsion bar front end, Chev 1 ton full floater in the back, moderate tires and lift, a tuned load flite tranny. Pre XJ Jeep speed. I also had an Olds 98. Guess which one aggrivated the police more and ask yourself if they were in fact correct, for any logical reason. Both were mechanicaly sound, had about the same horsepower and same top end. The Olds was a little heavier. The Lancer was actually safer, roll cage and full harness.

 

[8Mud]

To add a little balance to my tails of abuse. Got snatched up once, when I was actually guilty as heck. Was being booked and a Detective Sergant walked through and asked me what the heck was up. Got out of that one.
the Dective Sergant had gone to colledge, while I was in Nam. Little Jewish kid, who wore suits to school. I intervened a couple of times, when the jocks were in the mood to torment him. Nice to have Kharma work out for you on occasion.

 

[dandecicco]

Why the heck should the police not be held to the same standard as everybody else.

Becasue in America, criminals don't have to live up to any standards, they are just victims.

 

[8Mud]

Becasue in America, criminals don't have to live up to any standards, they are just victims.

The criminal is always the other guy. Very few people can stand the same scrutany they direct at others. Or in plain language, you look up most anybodies rear end with a microscope and your gonna find something stinky.
I´ve been examined on numerous occasions, doubt half the LAPD, would pass the same scrutany I have.
Might isn´t right and right isn´t might. Cops are just like most everybody else, there are petty a holes, with a sprinkling of people with social problems. And a few genuinally good ones, sprinkled through the mix.

 

[8Mud]

IMO, the problem with the LAPD is

A) they are woefully lacking in numbers
&
B) their hands are tied thanks to the likes of Maxine Waters & Jesse Jackson.

I believe if we had approximately double the police force we'd equal NY on a per capita representation, & yes, I'd welcome twice as many LAPD officers.

Our officers have zero incentive to 'get out there' to meet the people & look for potential trouble, as it simply exposes them to unfounded complaints, which will be made legit by Waters, Jackson & media long before there is any investigation.

As far as getting harassed by the LAPD, not my experience. Been driveing here for 20 years. Got about a dozen tickets as a teen driver, got a warning that any more tickets would result in the loss of my license, haven't been pulled over since. It's safe to say that as a teen, I had it comming.

Cops are out there risking their lives everyday for a thankless job that most of us wouldn't touch, including me. I thank them every chance I get & then head on my merry way.

Paul

Take a spin through Van Nuys, on through North Hollywood, then cut over to San Fernando. Borrow your gardeners car.
Doesn´t Sherman Oaks have pivate police? Or is that Thousand Oaks, Better yet take a drive into Thousand Oaks, do a little wheeling. :laugh3:
If you drive from home to work, from work to home, sit in front of the TV and never go out, drive a car exactly like everybody else, dress like everybody else and look like you have enough money to hire a lawyer. No problems.
Limiting your exposure and protective coloration is smart. But is it right.
I used to live in Woodland hills, never had a problem in Woodland Hills, of course if the truth be told, the Goodfellas in Woodland Hills, never much ever saw a policeman.

 

[Bent]

The LEO did not place the baby in the mans arms. They did not ask that he held the child so they could return fire. They are not responsable for the sister taking the baby out when she left. They are not obligated to be shot and killed leaving a wife and kids just because some father places his own child in the line of fire.

"Almighty media, who's truth did you sell today?"
from: "ordinary man"-Triumph

 

[ECKSJAY]

Results were back today.

Anyone else notice that something like this happens (guy goes apeshit and ingests cocaine and alcohol, then shoots at his kid/neighbors, threatens to kill his wife, shoots and injures police officers, holds his baby daughter hostage) the family members and neighbors say, 'Oh he was such a sweet and loving person...a good father. THe police murdered him!'

What a crock of shit. I went through this when my cousin died in a stolen Cadillac while running from the police. 'The police shouldn't have chased him!' WTF? Is that what the pushbars are for on the front of the cars? Nudging them along if they don't run? Whatever... Glad my family finally 'came to' and realized that he made poor decisions that cost him his life and the life of his best friend.

Oh yeah, the link...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-071305toddler_lat,0,2261555.story?coll=la-home-headlines

 

[Grzz701]

God I love knee jerk reactions to situations like this. People settle down relax and get all the information and then make an informed opinion. This situation is to recent to be able to do that by anybody. Oh by the way the Central Coast In custody death was not a 150 pound man who was being nice and compliant but a 210 pound man who had just under the overdose level of meth and coke, who was resisting a warrant arrest. By the way there were 4 officers trying to restrain him and two were doing crowd control. Just food for thought on how these kind of things can get misconstrued.
Mark

 

[8Mud]

Results were back today.

Anyone else notice that something like this happens (guy goes apeshit and ingests cocaine and alcohol, then shoots at his kid/neighbors, threatens to kill his wife, shoots and injures police officers, holds his baby daughter hostage) the family members and neighbors say, 'Oh he was such a sweet and loving person...a good father. THe police murdered him!'

What a crock of shit. I went through this when my cousin died in a stolen Cadillac while running from the police. 'The police shouldn't have chased him!' WTF? Is that what the pushbars are for on the front of the cars? Nudging them along if they don't run? Whatever... Glad my family finally 'came to' and realized that he made poor decisions that cost him his life and the life of his best friend.

Oh yeah, the link...
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-071305toddler_lat,0,2261555.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Well they lost the Cadillac and your cousin, it was justified because he made a bad decission. If they (the people who get paid to make those policies and decissions) would have made another decission, there was a chance him and the Cadillac might have survived. Obvious, your cousins judgement was flawed.
If somebody runs and somebody chases him, chances are he is gonna keep right on running. If nobody is chasing him, chances are he isn´t gonna run much farther. It´s not rocket science.
When I do a pursuit, it´s just to get close enough to use my binoculars. Then I use my radio, then I get in front of him, not behind him. The guys on the other end of the radio, are positioning themselves to observe from the front. If he gets away, better luck next time.
I think my policy, may in many instances, be more survivable than, the one used on your cousin.
Like I said at the beginning, same old stuff in the same old way. Flawed policy and probably a bad institutional mind set by the LAPD. In this instance, it may be justified, but it sure has the same aroma, as it did thirty years ago.
Contain and control, just might work out better than confrontation. Of course like you mentioned, all the facts aren´t in yet, the presses facts, the Polices facts or the actual facts.
Sometimes you gotta do what you got to do, sometimes another methode just might work out better.
I remember my last serious confrontation with LA Sheriffs department, they said I attacked five of them, striking them repeatedly around the hands and fists, with my face. The newspapers said, It was because I was protesting, two womens right to sun bath topless on a private beach. Vaugely remember the topless sunbathers, barley noticed, wasn´t impressed. Another few minutes , me and my dog would have been long gone. I was just passing through.
Is it possible, that often, it´s just all so unnecessary.

 

[ACE]

The cause of this incident is the father, not the officer. Nobody else is to blame.

 

[8Mud]

I can't say much on the current issue except to say that it will be a major shit storm.

As for LAPD/LASD how 'bout some history. I'm not sure if it's still like, so take it with a grain of salt. The Sheriff's department's idea of training at least used to be stick new deputies in the jails for a period of time as guards. Problem being that just gets them in the "Everybody is scum" mentality. In my experience in the L.A. area it is the Sheriffs who are usually most likely to harass you in particular neighborhoods (by that I mean certain divisions are more notorious than others). I haven't had any problems with the LAPD but they are no angels of course.

I can't tell you why you've had more negative police experience in Los Angeles than other parts of the world. I had a fair amount of negative experience shortly after I started driving, that all came down to being in a nice neighborhood in an ugly car, that was in the city of Torrance.

One last point in my pointless post. I have never had a problem with the CHP at all. Every single officer I've dealt with (I've witnessed a lot of accidents) has been courteous and helpful, I cannot say the same for LAPD and LASD officers that I have dealt with in the same capacity. Also I have only had one slightly negative experience with the Redondo Beach Police Department, that being pulled over because I had a legal temporary operating permit. The officer did not get me out of the vehicle to search me though, so it wasn't as bad as I was expecting (Torrance trained me ).

It's tough to say why things shake out like they do. I just get tired of people who say that LAPD/LASD are problematic because Los Angeles is an inherently worse place than other major cities, it simply is not true.

Sequoia

I´m with PRES Sequoia

 

[ECKSJAY]

If somebody runs and somebody chases him, chances are he is gonna keep right on running. If nobody is chasing him, chances are he isn´t gonna run much farther. It´s not rocket science.
When I do a pursuit, it´s just to get close enough to use my binoculars. Then I use my radio, then I get in front of him, not behind him. The guys on the other end of the radio, are positioning themselves to observe from the front. If he gets away, better luck next time.

In John's case they had backed off because it was a residential area. It wasn't even a chase, per se, after the first mile of the pursuit. They were getting in place and scouring the neighborhood when the stolen vehicle was spotted again. Because the deputies knew the area well they went to the street they saw the stolen car, which had no outlet. Apparently John didn't know the area and was in excess of 100mph, tried to corner at a 90 degree turn, went into a sideways slide, hit the curb and bounced into the air....coming to rest on the ground after slamming 'roof first' into the side of an apt building. On the bounce he (driving) flew out of the open driver's side window and hit the building next to the car, about 8' away. When I visited him in the hospital he was pretty well beat up. He was braindead and kept alive by machines. My Aunt, Uncle, and cousins decided with professional opinion that it would be best to let him go.

Dept policy was against high-speed pursuits and John was intoxicated with at least 4 different substances, including methamphetimines and alcohol. Doctors said with the amount of chemicals in his system there's a really good chance he didn't feel any of the impacts or even knew what hit him. Amazing...

 

[8Mud]

In John's case they had backed off because it was a residential area. It wasn't even a chase, per se, after the first mile of the pursuit. They were getting in place and scouring the neighborhood when the stolen vehicle was spotted again. Because the deputies knew the area well they went to the street they saw the stolen car, which had no outlet. Apparently John didn't know the area and was in excess of 100mph, tried to corner at a 90 degree turn, went into a sideways slide, hit the curb and bounced into the air....coming to rest on the ground after slamming 'roof first' into the side of an apt building. On the bounce he (driving) flew out of the open driver's side window and hit the building next to the car, about 8' away. When I visited him in the hospital he was pretty well beat up. He was braindead and kept alive by machines. My Aunt, Uncle, and cousins decided with professional opinion that it would be best to let him go.

Dept policy was against high-speed pursuits and John was intoxicated with at least 4 different substances, including methamphetimines and alcohol. Doctors said with the amount of chemicals in his system there's a really good chance he didn't feel any of the impacts or even knew what hit him. Amazing...

Really sorry, if that would have been my son, I´d go crazy.
Just like the picture in my mind of a baby with a bullet hole in her.