Just thinking

[riverfever]

I had an awesome day today exploring tons of Forest Roads with my g/f and my dog. Dharma. It's very difficult for me to picture life without either of them. My dog is an American Staffordshire Terrier. Good thing I'm not up in Denver or she would be labeled a Pitbull and I'd have to move. I've had several discussions with co-workers last week about my thoughts on the breed ban. One gal (our school social worker) is all for killing those sh!tty dogs. She has a Rotty that she admits has snapped at her own daughter. Mine is older than hers and has never exhibited any behaviors (other than licking and peeing on your shoes when you meet her) that made me nervous. She and I both graduated from a Canine Police Academy. I have considered going a step further and making her a Certified Therapy Dog so she can teach others that her kind can be good.

As a Special Ed. Teacher, I have worked with some truly f'd up kiddos. I have kids whose parents think that appropriate discipline is locking the kid in a dog crate and macing them. Or locking them up in the basement, burning them, some real sadistic stuff. Some of my students are...animals. But they can be helped. We don't just say...kill them. And I have kids that have attacked/committed serious acts. This is why I was so alarmed when a social worker that deals with similar problems took her stance.

I was searching some trail write-ups from another well known 4x4 site tonight to see if there were any groups getting together next weekend. I wanted to meet some new folks that share similar interests. I was bummed to see a thread about "Pitbullocaust" and how great of an idea it is. Many of those guys seem very knowledgable in 4x4 and I THOUGHT I might want to try and learn from them. I remember a thread a while back that Gil? in Chicago started on a similar topic. I was so impressed by the comments in that thread. Not only have you people shown me that you are incredibly knowledgeable with 4x4, but the majority of you also just have a good head on your shoulders. I've been sponging info. from this place for a while now as a non-member. I'm going to join this week. We're looking forward to meeting some of you for beers at upcoming events. Thanks for being so making this a great site.

I KNOW and expect someone will chime in about how they will shoot my dog if they see it.

This is her watching 2 chipmunks play less than 10 feet from her in Gunnison over the summer. She was told to leave them alone. She's horribly fierce.

 

[BCParker]

I agree. I live near chicago, where several of these pitbull attacks have taken place in the last few years, and the city and numerous suburbs are debating whether to ban all breeds that MAY be dangerous. It's good to see someone who knows how to handle a dog properly. people must realize that the majority of these attacks are caused by irresponsible owners. (for instance, the recent attacks in near chicago were caused by owners who either dumped their unwanted pets in forest preserves or allowed their dogs to roam free without the proper training.


here is my dog, listed as a "dangerous breed" by my first apartment complex. The only things he's dangerous to are chipmunks and raccoons.

He's big, and some ignorant people automatically assume he's dangerous.

(Pitbull type dogs get most of the hype, but any largebreed is at risk of being branded "dangerous")

watching a bird in a tree:

relaxing by the jeep( I called him a bad dog and he hung his head in shame)

here he is being fed by one of my neighbors (10 yrs old I think)-

This one is just due to the camera angle/flash. (ie. I was trying to get him to do this.)

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Yup...

"Bully" breeds are evil and should not be trusted with kids...

 

[Beej]

That's sad. The nicest most docile dog I know just happens to be a Pit Bull. She's only 6 and you couldn't find a more mellow dog. Unless of course you're climbing through the window because your friend couldn't hear the doorbell and you forget she's there. I guess she bit first before she could smell me...

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

True in your case, Gil, but you never hear of maulings by collies.

Not maulings...

But the media never finds the fact that the most guilty breeds of bog bites are collies and cocker spaniels sensational enough...

I was an animal control officer for a while Terry...

Been working with animals for over 10 years...

Yes...

Just about any dog is capable of biting you...

But there only a few breeds capable of the kind of damage that a "working dog" can cause.

Honestly...

When's the last time you heard about a pit going nuts in a "good home" and killing/mauling someone?

It usually happens when some misguided idiot thinks he can "train" his dog (or doesn't) and the dog's aggresive tendencies are encouraged and not kept under control.

Think of firearm ownership...

and the difference between responsible gun owners and gangbangers...

it's not the tool...

it's how and when it's used.

 

[OT]

Damn, you hit that one fast.
After I thought about it for a minute, I changed my view and deleted the post, but you already caught it..

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Damn, you hit that one fast.
After I thought about it for a minute, I changed my view and deleted the post, but you already caught it..

But you're right...

Collie and Schnauzer dog bites never get the coverage that a pit gets...

Why?

Not gruesome and horrific enough...

That's what ticks me off...

It's not like the media cares...

It's the ratings.

The real problem is too many fawking idiot owners encouraging dogs with the ability to cause great bodily harm, to do so.

solution?

Find the owners of these dogs criminally responsible for owning and encouraging said behavior.

I'm not talking about getting charged for having your dog bite a trespasser...

I'm talking about your aggressive dog chasing people down and biting them...

Off your property

 

[imma honky]

A co-worker has a golden lab, If 0 he knows you(all you have to do is not show up un-invited), he is the SWEETEST dog in the world. His number one priority is this friends' kids and hunting. I agree that 98% of a dogs aggression comes from how he/she is treated.

 

[BCParker]

But the media never finds the fact that the most guilty breeds of bog bites are collies and cocker spaniels sensational enough...

Yes...

Just about any dog is capable of biting you...



it's not the tool...

it's how and when it's used.

This one plays with all the neighborhood kids....

This one on the other hand (all 16 lbs of it), will rip off your face if you're not carefull....

 

[riverfever]

This is why I started thinking tonight. As a responsible owner, there's gotta be something I can do to help. There are people that own labs that shouldn't have that privledge b/c they don't monitor the animal and it gets out of the yard and roams. Working dogs are more dangerous if an incident occurs. It is a lot like gun ownership. I did fostering in STL and had 2 that I didn't care for at all and they were put down for aggression. I don't know what the answer is. But when Denver gets done killing all the pits...what's next? Boxers, Rotts, etc. The thugs will find another dog that looks "hard". Maybe owners of working breeds should be required to take obedience classes? It would make more sense to take someones dog if they haven't complied with that law than just killing the dog. There has to be a better solution.

Over 100 of the Denver Pits are now in Divide, Colorado waiting for their owners to move or get adopted. I spoke with her a bit ago and offered to help. She has approximately 50 dogs sleeping in the house now b/c it's too cold and she is low on funds to finish the construction of the rest of the heated kennels. The dogs are all secured and monitored the way ANY dog should be.

 

[OT]

We had a boxer/pyrenees, mix that had broken it's leg when it was young.
The vet pinned the bones, but it never got back to normal and walked and ran with a limp.
After about 3 years it must've really started getting to him and hurting.
He just got grumpier and grumpier.
He was always protective of the family, but started biting the neigborhood kids anytime he thought they were endangering my kids.
We had to put him down.
It was sad, but he was going downhill fast.

 

[OT]

This is why I started thinking tonight. As a responsible owner, there's gotta be something I can do to help. There are people that own labs that shouldn't have that privledge b/c they don't monitor the animal and it gets out of the yard and roams. Working dogs are more dangerous if an incident occurs. It is a lot like gun ownership. I did fostering in STL and had 2 that I didn't care for at all and they were put down for aggression. I don't know what the answer is. But when Denver gets done killing all the pits...what's next? Boxers, Rotts, etc. The thugs will find another dog that looks "hard". Maybe owners of working breeds should be required to take obedience classes? It would make more sense to take someones dog if they haven't complied with that law than just killing the dog. There has to be a better solution.

Over 100 of the Denver Pits are now in Divide, Colorado waiting for their owners to move or get adopted. I spoke with her a bit ago and offered to help. She has approximately 50 dogs sleeping in the house now b/c it's too cold and she is low on funds to finish the construction of the rest of the heated kennels. The dogs are all secured and monitored the way ANY dog should be.

We also had a chow when I was young and that was the best pet ever, all 15 years of it's life.
I never knew chows had bad reputations until I became an adult.

 

[imma honky]

I've been "attacked" by more small dogs than medium/large ones. I personally don't like little turds. If I wanted one small, I'd get a cat.

 

[riverfever]

Damn, you hit that one fast.
After I thought about it for a minute, I changed my view and deleted the post, but you already caught it..

I was wondering what the heck was going on here.

 

[8Mud]

I'm not gonna quote the whole thread, but the Weimeraner in BCParkers thread is one of the few true Hunter/retrievers that is also certified to be trained as a personal protection dog. It's in the genes.
IMO if you own a dog like that (which I do) you have to get on them young and train them hard.
Mine is trained for hunting (actually as a blood hound) and also for personal protection, but I really trust him not to bite most any child. But absolutes don't exist.
Around here, the breeding is skewed a bit by the ocean, the Saint Bernard has the most fatal attacks to humans and the Dalmation has the most bites or reported incidences as a breed.
But they are also on a crusade to purge the fighting dog breeds, here in Germany. To much of it is politics, certain breeds seem to get waivers while others don't.
There is always somebody, that doesn't understand the drives and urges of one group, to pursue things they don't feel or understand. They get there teeth into a crusade and take it to extremes.
Dog and man have been partners for thousands of years, the symbiosis is in both our genes. The people that don't have this affinity, rarley try to be empathetic.
They are trying to outlaw fighting dogs and at the same time encouraging the reintroduction of wolves and large cats.
Skewed logic or outright friggen nuts comes to mind when I hear about this stuff.

 

[riverfever]

They are trying to outlaw fighting dogs and at the same time encouraging the reintroduction of wolves and large cats.

Interesting point...hadn't thought of that whole thing.

 

[8Mud]

About 9 months ago I saw wolf here, I reported it, because I though it was an escapee from a local wild animal park. But it turned out to be an immigrant and genuine.
The first thing people heard (in the Newspaper) from the local animal rights people was that wolves were harmless to people. Which I believe (know) to be BS.
I did some independent study on wolves, actually the difference between wolves and dogs. I'm not an expert, but what I was reading, sure wasn't what the animal rights people were reading. Most of there info was propaganda.
A female wolf, Coyote, Jackal will eat anything they can get in there mouth, when they have a litter to feed. The only real fear they have of humans, is from being hunted and that could disappear quickly if the hunting stops for a few generations. One difference between a dog and a wolf, is dogs rarely eat humans (I mean eat, not bite or kill) or other dogs. Wolfs do, so do Coyotes and Jackals. Cannabilism is one of the main differences between a dog and a Wolf/Coyote/Jackle. Other differences are Wolves don't usually train worth a darn, little genetic affinity between them and humans.

 

[sidriptide]

i'll play devil's advocate here and say the only dog that ever bit me was a Chow Shepard mix that i had known very closely for over 5 years. i mean almost as close as it's owner was to it. NEVER had i thought that one day, out of the blue, he would latch onto my hand and crush it totally unprovoked. just snapped out and grabbed me. wasnt shaking his head or anything. just clamped on and growled as we fought to open his jaws. 4 fractures, 2 punctures, and one day in surgery.

i like dogs but i learned alot about how much "instinct" remains even in a house pet. to our knowledge the dog had never been abused unless it was in the first 6 months of his life.

i dont have any "phobias" now with the exception of how closely i watch my children around dogs. they have been taught how to and not-to present your hand to an animal. regardless of how well you know it.

i dont support any form of extermination, but i absolutely DO believe that there are certain breeds which by all rights should remain "suspect" but that also goes for the people who own them.

some people shouldnt have guns, some no children, and some no pets.

 

[8Mud]

I kept a vicious dog for his whole life (he was a grown rescue/ Beagle Rotweiler mix), he was a on a 45' wire and behind a fence. But he never did bite a child, which was the only thing that kept me from putting him down.
People forget because of the largely parallel agenda, that dogs have agendas of there own, the parallels are often more or stronger than the divergent directions. But are there and ever present, familiarity will sure enough cause you to let your guard down. That's when catasrophy strikes.
A buddy had a dog that reached over and bite my ass, kind of a dominanace thing. I mentioned to the owner that that dog needed an attitude adjustment, his testosterone was running a little to high. Half a year later his dog bite off two of his fingers.
One technique that has worked well for me, is to lay on top of a puppy as soon as it's big enough to stand it. Just enough wieght to let him know your there (not enough to crush him). Repeat often and have the whole family do it also. By the time he is grown, the chances of him snaping at anybody are almost zero. The wieght laying on him, is an easy way to demostrate dominanace and also makes him less susepatable to being cranky or biting out of fear or irritation, if somebody accidentally sits on him or something.

 

[Spudboy]

I'm no expert by any means, but it occurs to me that most pitbull stories I have read talk about the dog biting and not letting go, where my limited experience has been the other dogs will bite and then run off. So while bite frequency may be the same or worse for other breeds, actual bodily damage might be worse with the pitbull. Could be totally wrong on this, would like to learn more.

Spudboy