Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

[gunselman]

Tnt double shear mount. They have different heights for different sterring setup

TNT has different height axle end mounts depending on what kind of steering you are running. They also sell a trackbar kit. The kit is setup for 1-3.5" and 4-6" lift kits. I can only imagine that in the higher lift kits they come with the drip trackbar mount.

Give them a call and ask if you really think you need the drop mount.

 

[trippled]

I kept repairing cracks as they formed, and it always cracked in a new spot. Looking at the mount, it's my opinion that wheeling on it was just too much force for it to handle in in those directions. I think I had 31s at that time too. I ended up getting a Rusty's track bar and bracket. The bar is garbage, but I added a brace to the bracket and it's held up fine.

 

[frijolee]

Well, I pulled the trigger and now have 2.5" weldable johnny joint in route to me from Poly Performance.

I really appreciate the cautions over the stock bracket, but I got a good look at it last night and I still think I'm going to try welding on it. Comparing what's in my head to the available options from TNT/Rusty's/Clayton etc, I really think I should be able to weld this up in a manner that'll box things in securely. If it starts cracking on me, at least since I'm designing around a known joint, I can always fall back to an off-the-shelf version.

I really appreciated all the commentary. for the win for sure.
-Joel

 

[trippled]

If you can, add a brace. That will definitely help.

 

[frijolee]

Track bar done, track bar bracket done welding just need to smooth a few edges and paint. Pics when I can sit down at a computer properly. In the meantime. What have folks done on the axle side track bar connection point?

One end is going to be a great deal more beefcake than the other and I'd like to avoid this:

Simplest approach seems to be just adding a double plates on the outer surface But adding thickness compounds another potential issue: I'd really like to shift the track bar closer to the axle if I can. My tie rod has always rubbed the bolt head as I approach full lock and bind anywhere in the steering system ain't happy. Anyone know what's hiding back there if I try to cut it out and replace the box?

 

[TRCM]

nothing is back there but the axle tube...probably don't want to cut it tho.......

 

[frijolee]

Track bar redo...

The BDS stud was fatigue cracked just about all the way through before it actually let go.

Former 2" joint (which was sloppy to boot) and new 2.5" johnny joint.

BDS uses solid bar.

Solid bar is hard to weld.

Pre heat, sharp tungsten, and a tiny weld deep in the root. Better.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Seemed like I was fighting my setup the whole time. May have been the gas bottle hitting the dregs, but man I ground out a lot as I went along. Should be plenty of weld though...

 

[frijolee]

On to the bracket side:

Paper doll study after cutting off the bottom inch or so of the stock bracket. This would have been nice because it aligned to the new side plates better than where I ended up.

Round 2, doll.

Major change was shifting it forward to be sure I'd clear the truss.

New tool. Finally had an excuse to use my plasma cutter. I'm a fan.

Tacked, clearances looking good.

Now that's what welding some thick stuff is supposed to look like.

Weld through primer on the bits I can't paint later (price tag might as well say clutch your ankles but it works well).

Tying in a side plate:

Vertical mid gusset helps carry the load from the aft plate up to the bolt pattern.

I ran out of Argon and had to switch to MIG to finish.

Painted and ready for install (assuming tonight)

Outside:

 

[freerider15]

Well, I'd really been struggling on whether it made sense to spend a bunch of money on my XJ. From the looks of it I could have easily been into $3k in coil overs (to do them they way I'd want), $2k in lockers and another $2-3k in bead locks and tires. That would still leave me with an underpowered rig but if I wanted to do a v8 swap then I'd be looking another $5-6k easily. That come with the wildcard of California's lovely smog system.

At the end of the day I just couldn't justify it. XJ's seem to struggle to be worth more than about $10-12k no matter what you do to them. It'd be better to just buy a purpose built rig and/or someone else's project that I could make into my own.

...And so I did...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/vehi...40-full-body-buggie-ls-atlas-ori-project.html

Mailed off the deposit today. I'm going to put the XJ back to rights in a simpler fashion and it'll eventually get sold. Anyone want to buy some serious axles?

Thanks for all the advise and support over the years,
Joel

Welcome to the dark side :laugh:

Though, I do have another XJ that I'll be building so I can have the best of both worlds

 

[frijolee]

Welcome to the dark side :laugh:

Though, I do have another XJ that I'll be building so I can have the best of both worlds

It feels like the dark side. iratefla

I actually came to a similar conclusion. Since I could have an extended project ahead of me with the FJ40, I shouldn't be worried about spending money/effort on the XJ in the meantime. Yes, I'll probably still sell it, but there's nothing wrong with playing/upgrading in the meantime. After all my girls are only going to be young once and there's a big world to explore an adventures to be had.

So instead of just throwing the track bar back together, I'm installing frame stiffeners before that goes back on. Instead of just replacing a leaking axle seal I'm putting the ZJ disc brakes in. I already bought some decent shocks and bumps for the rear suspension.

Now I'm working like crazy to get it all in this week because we have some a family reunion camping trip next week. We'll be in King's Canyon and it looks like there are a ton of OHV areas around there. Anyone have recommendations on specific spots? Kids are little so fun is more important than gnarly.

-Joel

 

[frijolee]

Here's a couple notes finishing up the track bar stuff...

I did end up reinforcing the bottom trackbar/axle interface. I figured can ditch the washer the bolt was using and not be much worse off in terms of tie rod interference.

Little plate of probably 0.095" (basically a doubler)

Weld-through primer on both inside faces.

Burned in and painted:

Johnny Joint assembly was a PITA. This is a 2.5" CE-9110P by the way...

Looks simple enough. Although, I'm not convinced the two big washers actually fit in the bore (it'd be close and I didn't check ahead of time). After you weld on this, the bore isn't quite perfectly round and those washers definitely need a healthy shave on the perimeter.

So after a washer finally fits all the way down against the step, then you ram one of the rubber bits down in the hole (greased, but it's still so tight it's not easy), drop in the ball, swear at the other side when you realize you can't get that in the hole straight enough for the interlocking bits to line up.

Switch to the press. Line the two rubber bits up perfectly and press it in with a big socket.

Seems to be working but it's spitting the grease back out the fitting hole. Install fitting to see if you can force great everywhere rather than it just taking the path of least resistance. Re-press and find that the two rubber bits are so tight to the bore that now the grease hydraulically locks the system and you can't press it. Remove fitting, finish the driving the upper half home.

Pull it out of the press and realize: A) the upper rubber bit isn't perfectly flat so your alignment of the two halves must not be as good as you thought. B) There's no way you're getting that gnarly heavy snap ring the groove without some serious side pressure to hold the washer down.

So then you pull everything apart, re-evaluate your setup and start again.

The right way to do this (or at least what worked for me):

Use a smaller socket (just enough to pick up the washer ID), press-in the entire assembly all at once so the sides are sure to be lined up with each other. The snap ring dangles over the top so you can snap that around the socket, which just fits. Release pressure. Add grease fitting. Pour yourself a fireball on the rocks for a battle fought and won.

 

[trippled]

Where did you get that primer? How well does it work if you weld on it? Been looking for some but all I find is the stuff that doesn't burn up, not for actually welding on.

 

[frijolee]

Where did you get that primer? How well does it work if you weld on it? Been looking for some but all I find is the stuff that doesn't burn up, not for actually welding on.

Upol Weld #2.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/UPO-768.html?gclid=CKmMt_nKus4CFQMGaQod9oEBtw#.V60TifkrJhE

https://www.amazon.com/U-Pol-789-Weld-Thru-Zinc/dp/B003TQ9NFK

No issues welding it at all, you almost wouldn't know it's there (well, if you were really color blind that is). I've used it on both MIG and TIG now. I read a large stack of reviews before buying this stuff. Only downside so far is that it's definitely the most expensive spray can I've ever bought. After a bit of shopping around I think I got it for $35 each.

 

[frijolee]

ZJ rear disc brakes started but I ran into an issue with an axle shaft... More on that in a second.

1) Support car, remove wheels, remove outer brake drums. Can you tell which side had the bad shaft seal?

2) Open up the rear end to access C-clips, remove axles. Note, Truetrac's have an access port and a spacer instead of a cross pin.

3) Disconnect e-brake lines, not using either of the factory lines.

Note: E-brake cables seem to be one of the bigger points of uncertainty with this swap and various folks have done different things. Following the advice of this thread: http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/zj-disk-brake-ebrake-cable-36835/, I settled on using the ZJ driver brake line and NAPA p/n 95064 for the passenger side. Supposedly no need to do any crazy looping of cables and the best fit of available options (passenger is a little longer but that's not bad for a lift).

4) Remove drum brake internals with the four nuts at the backing plate. Remove the brake line last and be ready to catch drips. I used several layers of syran wrap and zip ties. Do it tight enough and it won't leak.

Still to come:

5) Grind open ID bore of the ZJ backing plate.
6) Install all the new bits pretty much like how they came off the ZJ
7) Reroute brake lines (need the ZJ soft lines for this)
8) Install ZJ prop valve.


But the reason I stopped where I did... was cleaning up a bit and noticed I have some wear on the bearing surface of one of my axles.

Actually looks worse in a macro picture than in person, but you can still feel it with a fingernail. On a scale of "minor" to "you're F'ed, change that NOW" how would you rank this? I will swap it out as soon as I can but I don't know that I can get a new shaft prior to my planned road trip Monday morning. It wasn't making noise, and ironically, this was the shaft side that wasn't leaking. Effectively, am I an idiot for even considering driving another 1000 miles on this--with a day of wheeling to boot--before changing it out? Assuming I'll need a bearing too.

What manufacturer do you guys like for the late model (29 spline) 8.25" shafts? Is it time to go chromoly and keep the stocks as trail spares? 97-01's are a bit more rare in the local junkyards, but I can check.

 

[trippled]

If you have to run it you can. I've seen people driving on worse, but change that and the bearing asap. Once it gets to that point they start Wearing significantly faster.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

What manufacturer do you guys like for the late model (29 spline) 8.25" shafts? Is it time to go chromoly and keep the stocks as trail spares? 97-01's are a bit more rare in the local junkyards, but I can check.

No one (that I know of) makes chromo 8.25 axles due to the bearing riding on the axle surface. I'm running the alloy usa 1510s without issue. They're supposed to be 10% stronger, but who knows. They're fairly cheap as well.

 

[frijolee]

If you have to run it you can. I've seen people driving on worse, but change that and the bearing asap. Once it gets to that point they start Wearing significantly faster.

Thanks for chiming in. I did find NAPA has the bearings local so the question of whether I fix it now or later comes down to laying hands on an axle.

No one (that I know of) makes chromo 8.25 axles due to the bearing riding on the axle surface. I'm running the alloy usa 1510s without issue. They're supposed to be 10% stronger, but who knows. They're fairly cheap as well.

Interesting... Good tip on the chromoly. Wonder if Ally USA is the same as these guys:
https://smile.amazon.com/Revolution...1040154&sr=8-8&keywords=chrysler+axle+29+8.25

Same +10% strength language. Although for a relatively small difference I might go junkyard if I can track down a set.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

Interesting... Thanks for the tip on the chromoly. Wonder if Ally USA is the same as these guys:
https://smile.amazon.com/Revolution...1040154&sr=8-8&keywords=chrysler+axle+29+8.25

Same +10% strength language.

Pretty much. Every aftermarket axle I've seen for the 8.25 has the same material and est. strength increase.

 

[frijolee]

The Santa Fe Springs Pick Your Part claims it has two late model XJs, a 97 and a 2000. Decide it's worth it to show up and grab shafts. Found both. One the rear axle is gone but the other is whole. Sweet.

Go to pull it the shafts and the cross pin retainer bolt strips. DAMMIT!!!!! I'm F-ed. No way to get those out now. If I were at home I'd weld a nut to it.

Debate seriously yanking the full axle but I have no idea if these shafts are any better than what I have. Screw it, not worth it, looks like I'm ordering axles and gonna assemble this twice (assuming I can even get my list done to take it in the first place).

This sucks. Hot. Hungry. Tired. Dirty. Long list still needs to be done today.

Well at least it's lunch time. I need a happy meal. Carne Asada Fries.... Yeah that ought to help.

 

[frijolee]

...Well at least it's lunch time. I need a happy meal. Carne Asada Fries.... Yeah that ought to help.

Mmmmm, carne asada fries... The ultimate Southern California happy meal.

Well, I didn't finish the Jeep in time for my camping trip... but you know what? It was OK. I still made huge headway at getting the Jeep sorted and Kings Canyon was still rad in the family hauler even if we did zero off roading.

It was still big and beautiful...

And the girls loved the outdoors, especially the creek stomping.

So now we're back and it's back to work. Frame stiffeners are well underway and so is the rear suspension redo. A few questions:

1) Bastard pack setup... I'm blending a set of BDS 4" springs that sagged with something random I pulled out of a junkyard MJ. Planning to swap in the middle two MJ leaves for the similar length BDS leaves and see where that puts me. 1.5-2" lift would be ideal vs now. Any opinions on pros/cons of the big dog bottom leaf from the MJ vs. the two smaller leaves (bottom most) with the BDS? Here's what I'm playing with:

2) Picked up a set of Daystar extended bumps (4.1"). How much engagement I should build into the bumpstop before the shocks bottom? Shocks will be Bilstein 10" 5100s.

3) The nose of the Daystars is more rounded than stock (see http://www.daystarweb.com/productdetail.php?productID=369) so I'm debating adding a dedicated perch for bump engagement on the axle tube. Something like an extra leaf pad that I could stack shims on. Good idea or no point (aka bare tube is fine)?

Thanks for the advice as always.
-Joel