Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

[frijolee]

BTW I found the answer to my own question in regards to warranty and Mopar Performance spark plug wires... and the answer is: NO WARRANTY WHAT-SO-EVER.

http://www.mopar.com/assets/pdf/performance/catalog/Ignition_&_Electronics.pdf

Thanks Mopar. Remind me not to buy your stuff. Even my Bosch plugs wires from Autozone have a lifetime warranty (but then again they might not be relying on a crimp only to keep the wire together.)

 

[ih8cornnuts]

Thanks... I feel like I don't know what the hell I'm doing most of the time so I just design things like I would go-fast parts (but with bigger loads expected). I'm one of the three founders/owners of Ronin Speedworks. BTW the school you mentioned is only about a half mile from me. Were you in Tustin Meadows or on the other side of Walnut?

I was on the other side of Walnut, right off browning called Sandfield Place. Little typical Californian neighborhood that was built in the 60's.

I used to hang out with a few guys with RX7's, theirs were lame in comparison.

 

[heyhar]

Joel-Now that your exhaust is not leaking, the numbers are good, and a new O2 sensor installed, have you done an MPG test lately? It would be cool to see bigger mileage numbers, if only as payback for the hassle to get smaller emission numbers.

 

[DanMan2k06]

Dude... I'm all for strict emissions and saving the planet, but that sounded like a GNARLY ordeal. My whole family lives in CA, and they're always ranting and raving about smog. Good job not letting it get the best of you!

 

[rockclimber]

Joel-Now that your exhaust is not leaking, the numbers are good, and a new O2 sensor installed, have you done an MPG test lately? It would be cool to see bigger mileage numbers, if only as payback for the hassle to get smaller emission numbers.

if anything, all the restriction on the engine is going to make his mileage worse

 

[frijolee]

I haven't checked recently as I try to avoid pure road trips in the xj if I can. The 13 mpg highway that I tell folks was what it made on the big drive out to Cali when I first bought it. It's a little heavier now but losing some restriction on the exhaust may have helped it be a little more efficient. An engine is basically an air pump so reducing pumping losses is a good thing.

Now having the exhaust leak screwing up my tune is no good for anyone. Getting that sorted should have gotten me back close to where I was before, but I'm not going to make it leak again just to see how bad it was.

 

[frijolee]

... when I did go into 4 low at one point (just messing around) there was a pretty terrible clicking noise from the front diff. Kind of a catch and release sound, but not distinct single pop I can point to as part failing followed by clicking. I'm guessing it actually happened last time out and I'm only now seeing the results since it still drives normally in 2wd.

Planning to tear into the 4wd issue this weekend. Been reading about lunchbox lockers. If I understand this correctly, they'll always let the outside tire overspeed in a corner via normal ratcheting. That seems pretty easy to test just by lifting the front and turning wheels independatly. I also know what that sounds like in normal driving. This was MUCH louder and happens crawling under power. It's like it was slipping backward as opposed to over running forward as intended.

Anything I should be looking for in checking on that? If it's the Spartan Locker itself I'd hope I'd see some wear on the teeth. Could a bent housing cause enough misaligent to screw with the locker? Any suggestions on how to check for that? I have a ballistic fab truss in the wings but haven't gotten it on yet.

Only other alternative tyhat I can think of is that it's the NP231 and I'm less excited about pulling that apart. Might a loose chain slip like what I'm feeling? Either way I plan to catch and examine fluids carefully. It is odd that it drives perfectly normally in 2wd and that might point to transfer case.

Your thoughts/commentary appreciated.
-Joel

 

[rockclimber]

in 2wd there is no load on the front driveline, a lunchbox locker will operate differently in 4wd than 2wd.

check for worn out springs or bent pins in the spartan.

if its not that, taking a 231 apart isn't very difficult. it can be done inside the jeep, or on a bench pretty easily. just a few snap rings and some bolts.

 

[frijolee]

Opened up the front diff over the weekend. Front locker looks fine. Transfer case, not so fine but I’ll get to that in a second.

Started by putting all four corners on jack stands and playing with the lockers. Front ratchets just fine but it was weird that sometime spinning a wheel would make the driveshaft spin and sometime it wouldn’t.

Driving in 4wd (high or low) made some terrible noises, but given the discussion that the locker will behave differently depending if there’s torque coming down the front driveshaft, I decided to open up the front regardless just to check things out.

I was a little surprised that it looks like the locker uses the same ramp angles in either direction. Still there was no sign of damage.

I also made a quick video showing how it works, but also showing it slipping on either side of the locker when driving the same wheel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4YIqAiSbr4

Either way, this all looked fine so I called it good and closed it back up.

Bad news was that the clunking noises seemed to be coming from the transfer case. I went to check the fluid and discovered that is WAS NOT a common reservoir with the trans like I thought it was. That’s a pretty big miss because I pointed out that I’d puked trans fluid from the rear prop shaft output a while back.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245626690&postcount=73

Yeah, so that was apparently the transfer case emptying itself of fluid. I’ve been driving it bone dry for more than a few months now. I popped the drain valve and NOTHING came out. Stuck my finger in there and came back with metal shavings.

Thanks , I coulda really used a hand in figuring out where that was coming from before I had a chance to frag the case. Given the horrendous noises coming from the case (but only in 4wd), I’m guessing the insides are done. 11,000 views in this thread and not a single correct diagnosis.

Shit.

Well, at least I found the problem and I get to build this up better than before. Suffice it to say I’m not real stoked on Jeepin at the moment, but it’ll get better once I get it together again.

Anyone have any simple upgrades recommended while I’m in there? I’m happy with the 2.7:1 crawl but I think I heard some parts are interchangeable to up the strength.

-Joel

 

[crimsondragon]

It's those pictures. Everyone skips the text and goes straight to the pictures.

 

[Ben824]

Man that sucks that your t-case is toast. I have never heard of a t-case from your year blowing a seal at the output shaft. I have heard of older XJs with the older style output housing having seals go bad but never after that change in the output housing and I have been in the Jeepin world for 10 years. When I first read that story my first thought was what happened to my Jeep and to my cousin's Jeep when the transmission started to get too hot on the highway and spit trans fluid out the dipstick tube. But then I got to where you said it only had fluid from the t-case back. My first thought would be t-case but I wouldn't be sure where. I wish I had known you thought the trans and t-case shared fluid I would have atleast corrected you on that.

For the t-case, older Dodge Rams also came with HD versions of the NP231 t-case. basically the outside of the case was virtually the same and the overall design was the same but the internals were a little beefier. But the nice thing is alot of the internal HD parts of the Dodge 231 can be used in the Jeep 231! There are also 4:1 low range kits and 2 low kits that allows the t-case to operate in 2wd low range. Just do your research and you will find all the info you need. Cheapest thing to do to get you back on the road might be to just find another stock t-case maybe from a junkyard or from another member of your local chapter. But if you have the money and want to spend it to build a bullet proof 231 then go for it!

 

[frijolee]

Crimson, I'm not sure less pictures would really be better, but you're right that a lot of folks skim. I was so convinced it was a heat problem (and it was.... kind of) that I missed the critical part about where the fluid was coming from.

Ben, thanks for the heads up. Yes, I have quite a bit of reading to do. I was checking out the FSM and low and behold, transfer case spitting fluid can be a plugged vent. I think it's just a matter of getting it hot enough for the pressure to belch fluid thereby equalizing itself. It only did it to me twice that I'm aware of and it drove so normally thereafter that I didn't pick up on the problem.

I've checked the transmissing fluid maybe 6-7 times and couldn't figure out where I was losing fluid. Mystery solved but it sure sucks. Yes, I have some time at the junkyard in my near future. I don't need to spend a ton but a few extra hundred in upgrades would probably be worthwhile in the long run.

 

[frijolee]

Been reading quite a bit about transfer cases.

It does look like a 231hd (wide chain) with the 241s 6 planetary upgrade might be a good way to go. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1056599

Couple questions for those folks who've been there:
-When would having 2low be an advantage?
-I've ready old style vs. new style switched in 95. Is 95 ok or does this mean 96 or newer?
-Is the same year generation delineation true for 231chevy and dodge?

Anything else to look for when out wrecking yarding? Special tools to bring, etc?

Thanks,
Joel

 

[clean4drxj]

I have done alot of research upon installing my 231(widechain/2low/4:1's ect) and I've decided to just save my money for a 241J rocktrack case for a rubi.

 

[Ben824]

I have done alot of research upon installing my 231(widechain/2low/4:1's ect) and I've decided to just save my money for a 241J rocktrack case for a rubi.

That case requires alot of modifications to fit since it is much larger than the 231 and does not fit well in the XJ tranny tunnel. Not all guys have but I have read where some had issues. Others had issues with aftermarket cross members. Others had issues with fitment with their transmission with having the right spline count. Others had issues with the speedometer sensor. In the grand scheme of things a 231 can be upgraded affordably and internally to withstand some serious abuse. If an HD version can handle the power of a V8 truck then that is good enough for me. The only real benefit I see to the 241OR from a Rubi is the 4:1 low range which a 231 can be upgraded to have as well.

 

[Begster]

That case requires alot of modifications to fit since it is much larger than the 231 and does not fit well in the XJ tranny tunnel. Not all guys have but I have read where some had issues. Others had issues with aftermarket cross members. Others had issues with fitment with their transmission with having the right spline count. Others had issues with the speedometer sensor. In the grand scheme of things a 231 can be upgraded affordably and internally to withstand some serious abuse. If an HD version can handle the power of a V8 truck then that is good enough for me. The only real benefit I see to the 241OR from a Rubi is the 4:1 low range which a 231 can be upgraded to have as well.

I literally bolted mine up, ground off a piece of my exhaust hanger mount, and then my 241OR was installed and good to go. No fitment issues with the tunnel, and any issues with spline counts and speedo sensors was the fault of the person installing them not doing the necessary homework.

I put a 241OR in mine, the case has a more rigidity and 4:1 is awesome. I would say it is a big upgrade. I also got the entire case with yokes already on it for a lot less money than just the kit for the terra 4:1 kit costs.

 

[frijolee]

What years of 241or are known to work with the late model xjs? I when you say "didn't do the necessary research" I'm trying not to be that guy...

 

[frijolee]

What happens when you run a transfer case with no fluid?
AKA why having a plugged vent will ruin your day…

I think I found my problem.

Oil pump looks more than a little skanky.

Metal shavings, that’s not good.

Pretty obvious where the shavings are coming from (but how the heck does the chain get far enough out there to rub the case?)

Answer a kinked and massively stretched chain appears to be the weak link when things start to get hot,

With the cogs pulled as far apart as possible I could just about touch the middle portion of the chain together. Some of the inner teeth are bent such that it can’t travel over the cogs correctly. Surprisingly all the bearings are still silky smooth and no play. All the hard parts (teeth, splines, etc) also look fine. Chain stretch was the big one and so it really didn’t like 4wd, which I already new.

Plan includes:
-Chain (likely going wide)
-Oil pickup
-Oil pump
-Rebuild kit (just to be safe)
-6 pinion planetary

Anyone have hookups?
-Joel

 

[Empty_Pockets]

The pumps arent really known to go bad, I would grab a pump and pickup from a pick and pull yard, I paid $5 for a low mileage one when I broke mine putting my sye in. A new one is like $70. I would just grab another from the junkyard, and go thru that, I honestly wouldnt want to keep anything that had that much metal shavings go thru it.

 

[frijolee]

I was at a pick and pull over the weekend. They had about 3 Grand Cherokees, a metric ton of fords and chevys and not a single Cherokee or Dodge ram. Since no one answered my questions on years I had no idea which Chevy's used the 231s and/or differences to watch out for. I really expect to find a Ram given the size of the lot.

That said, it was raining so all wrenching happened in the wet/cold/mud. It was however, half price weekend which is why I pushed through the wet and I did pull two IRS's to help with the go fast projects. Once I was throughly frozen I just wasn't stoked on rolling around under random vehicles checking transfer case tags.

The shavings are basically aluminum dust and likely not that big a deal (there's no depth to the scratches, it was just rubbing). I do plan to clean it up and then decide whether I keep the case or not.