I Saved The Life Of Another AW4 Today

[90Blue_XJ]

I will be visiting tomarrow. And speaking with the technician, the supervisor and their boss. It will be resolved. And that crap is coming out.

Let us know how that confrontation goes. Bet that they stick by their guns even though they are WRONG.
Good luck.

 

[lawsoncl]

What was the TSB number he sent you?
Show them this one which explicitly excludes the AW4 from the mandate to use ATF4+.
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2006/21-010-06.htm

 

[scoobyxj]

You also might want to remind him your Jeep is a Cherokee not a Grand Cherokee which does take ATF+4

 

[lawsoncl]

You also might want to remind him your Jeep is a Cherokee not a Grand Cherokee which does take ATF+4

Unless it's an early 93 ZJ with the AW4. I'm sure someone's fought that battle as well. Interesting that the TSB I referrenced only says 1994-1998 use ATF4+. Does that mean dealerships have to be smart enough to figure out whether a 93 ZJ has the AW4 or Chrylser tranny since they used both that year?

 

[XJ 4-play]

The TSP is 21-014-07 October 16, 2007

Brand new. It does include the AW-4 but it is only recommended.

 

[ThunderbirdJunkie]

From everything I've read, ATF+4 was meant to be backwards-compatible with any transmission that took DexII or III. No, I wouldn't run it in MY AW4 (and I believe my 91 Montero had the same trans), but if someone else put it in, I sincerely doubt anything BAD would happen.

Does anybody have a link that will tell me that ATF+4 is specifically NOT backwards-compatible with DexII/III? One of the stipulations during ATF+4's development was that they (Chrysler) did NOT need to change anything in their transmissions.

 

[snufalufagus]

As long as I can get DEXIII my xj is happy the wife is happy and I'm a happy.

 

[lawsoncl]

ATF4+ and Dex II/III have different friction coefficients. The ATF4+ is slipperier and can cause slipping and excessive heat in trannys designed for Dexron. On the flip side, using Dexron in a tranny meant to use ATF4+ causes clutch chatter and damage. Shops using Dexron in the Chrysler trannies was one of the main causes of early tranny failures and the bad reputation for Chrysler trannies. Yes, ATF4+ is supposed to be backwards compatible with ATF3 and 7176 and all the Chrysler trannys, but again the AW4 is not a Chrylser made tranny. I don't believe it was ever designed to be compatible with Dexron, given the different friction requirements.

I'll have to see if I can find that TSB online somewhere.

 

[90XJay]

I have been bitching about this same problem for years. ATF+4 instead of DEX-2. How long does it take to get something right? Try to buy rotors for a 87 Wagoneer XJ. They will (at least mine did) argue and insist it is a six lug even when its sitting in the parking lot in front of them. THEN, "I must have changed the axles because their computer is not wrong". I have had it with parts stores. Why cant they hire people with some kind of working knowledge of a auto or at least some parts exp. Better yet pay their employee's better and send them to school.
ME-> :twak: <-PARTS CLERK

well to defend them most people who don't know xj's don't know that the full size wagoneers were availiable when the xj one was out. you have to make sure you specify compact or full size with that. anyways no offense to competent employees but ever get one of these from the parts monkeys:
"I need a u-joint for the front axle, drivers side on my 98 cherokee (axle is out of it). broke it wheeling"
"four wheel drive or two?"
"your kidding right?"

for the most part i fight to get the right part i want. I never tell them what i drive but i tell them the vehicle of the part i need (my axles are from a 98, mine's a 90) but there is one guy at an Advanced Auto parts store out here who I swear by. He is a Dodge nut but he also has had around 15 jeeps and his fav is still the xj. He knows when I come in I know what i want, and he tells me what I need to know. He knows that the computer isn't always right... like the weird brake job I did on a friends xj, turned out to be calipers of a chevy, he said they are rare but do exist, suckers had me stumped, i thought it was a hack job

 

[jeep40driver]

I better check w/ jiffylube and see what they put in mine. on my 2000 plug has D II on it.

 

[Hellbent]

tsb 21-014-07 does indeed state "aw4 transmissions are now included in this bulletin. atf+4 is recommended for aw4 transmissions."

they've been putting atf+4 in the xj's that come into our dealership for some time now. we don't even have any dexron/mercon at all anymore. if i had an auto xj i wouldn't put the +4 in my tranny, but on the other hand i haven't yet seen a single jeep come back with tranny issues after the fluid change. just my .02

 

[Hellbent]

i just realized i had forgotten about something. after i bought my 89 fsj(360 w/727 trans) i put atf+3 in it(dex was the "officially recommended" fluid), before it was superceded to +4 after talking to one of the older tranny guys. he strongly recommended it, so i figured i'd let the big jeep be a guinea pig. i put a transgo shift kit in at the time i did the fluid change, and to this day it shifts absolutely beautifully all the time @ around 160k-never rebuilt. i had completely forgotten that i had done that until just now.

 

[XJ 4-play]

Well, the dealer should be calling in the next 30 minutes. After a week of this I finally got through to customer service. There draining every last bit of T-fluid and replacing it with DEX III.

What saved me was the service agreement. I stipulated they put in DEX III and not ATF +4. That's what was agreed upon. That's what they should have done.

I wasn't asking if Dex III was the correct fluid. I wanted Dex III because that's the only thing she's ever seen. I am not going to change fluid's at 144,000 miles.

ATF +4 may work with Dexron but even the TSP doesn't mention it .
It does say you can top off all other ATF's and that ATF+4 can only be topped off with ATF+4. I'll see if I can scan the TSP and send it to someone here to post.

If it seems like too much hassle, really it was. But hey It's my Jeep. Took me a long time to find her.

 

[Hellbent]

i wasn't able to find a single mention anywhere of whether or not atf+4 can be mixed with dexron when just dropping the pan on an aw4. it only says that the fluid is recommeded for that trans now. with dexron being available pretty much everywhere, it doesn't make much sense to suddenly switch @ 144k. i don't think i'd want to mix them.

 

[lawsoncl]

Do you have a link to, or can you post the contents of the TSB? I'm curious to see what it says. I wonder if the intent was that the AW4 can be topped off with ATF+4, but not necessarily refilled with it.

 

[Blaine B.]

Yeah, mixing Dexron and ATF probably would result in the same result, probably just slower over time.

Like, if you mixed good blood with blood contaimated with AIDS, you still end up with AIDS....get my point?

 

[Hellbent]

Do you have a link to, or can you post the contents of the TSB? I'm curious to see what it says. I wonder if the intent was that the AW4 can be topped off with ATF+4, but not necessarily refilled with it.

i can't get it to link or copy from the work computer. i could email it, if you pm me an addy.

 

[jaburk]

NUMBER:​

21-014-07
GROUP:


Transmission
DATE: October 16, 2007

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-010-06, DATED
APRIL 14, 2006, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL

REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES THE
ADDITION OF THE ASIAN WARNER (AW4) TRANSMISSION AND ADDITIONAL
MODELS AND YEARS.​

SUBJECT:



Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type MS9602)
MODELS:



1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon

1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - **2008** (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - **2008** (DR/DH/D1) Ram Truck
2007 - **2008** (DC) Ram 3500 Cab Chassis
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon​

1996 - 2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)

2004 - **2008** (HB) Durango
**2008 (HG) Aspen**
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2007 - **2008** (JK) Wrangler
2001- 2006 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
2007 - **2008** (JS) Avenger/Sebring/Serbring Convertible
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible**2007 - 2008 (KA) Nitro**

2002 - 2007 (KJ) Liberty

**2008 (KK) Liberty**
**2008 (L2) 300C (China)**
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker/300M
2005 - **2008** (LX/LE) 300/Magnum/Charger
2005 - **2008** (ND) Dakota
1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2005 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - **2008** (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2007 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2007 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
**2008 (RT) Town & Country/Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager (U.S. & International Markets)**
1997 - 2006 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets) Vehicles equipped with Gas engines
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
2005 - **2008** (WK/WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 - **2008** (XK/XH) Commander
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
**1989 - 2001 (XJ) Cherokee**
**1989 - 1993 (MJ) Comanche**
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer​

​

NOTE: **AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions are now included in this Service

​

Bulletin. ATF+4® is recommended for AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions**

 

[Shorty]

'88 Aw4 not included? Just tell 'em it's got an '88 trans. in it!!!:clap:

 

[jaburk]

Here is a response I received from Lithia Jeep in Colorado Springs:

The fluid that is used from our bulk tank is a multi vehicle atf, which I have specs on here and shows to be compatible with both dex-3 and atf +4, as well as merc v and SLF. We have been using this fluid for years and have never had any issues or concerns caused by fluid replacement. I checked with my trans tech to address your concerns, he has given me no reason to be concerned about the fluid used. I understand your concern and have wanted to take the time to ask several people about this fluid and all of them say it will be no problems, most of the techs I have asked have been with Chrysler for 10 years or more. I hope this helps you in some way.