I got this .....

[Powerman]

Smoke crack, worship Satan:firedevil

See you at the festival River!


That is all.

 

[riverfever]

Smoke crack, worship Satan:firedevil

See you at the festival River!


That is all.

Oh I'll be there. And I'll be packing a pitch fork. :roflmao: :roflmao:

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Now I just tell everybody that I worship and pray to the beast. Everyone's keeping their distance now...so I got that goin' for me...which is nice.

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, man. We've got a beer volcano and a stripper factory for a heaven.

RAmen,

-----Matt-----

 

[Tom R.]

Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.

This is misleading. While he may have said this earlier in his life, there's amble evidence to show that he was a committed Christian later in life. Actually, I suspect there's no firm reference that he said this other than it being quoted in the early 1900s by someone who claims that he did. Nearly all references to this supposed quote are found on pro-atheists web sites. Go figure.

One quote of his, among many others that clearly show his faith, goes like this:

"That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular. … I do not think I could, myself, be brought to support a man for office whom I knew to be an open enemy of, and scoffer at, religion. Leaving the higher matter of eternal consequences between him and his Maker, I still do not think any man has the right thus to insult the feelings, and injure the morals, of the community in which he may live … "

Originally Posted by Ernest Hemmingway
All thinking men are atheists.

Faulty argument at best.

 

[ren]

Religion... starting and continuing arguements since the dawn of time, itself. This is a VERY MAJOR reason why I have chosen to follow the basics of " Do as you will, but harm none". At least as closely as I can. It seems to avoid these types of discussions.
Man, this is almost is interesting as listening to people discuss who is going to the superbowl, and so on...

 

[Tom R.]

Actually it is naive to think otherwise! Starting from the crusades, all the way up to what is going on now in Africa, Middle East etc. There are far too many instances, do the research.

Why? Because other uninformed people say it is so? May I suggest you do the research since you're the one making the uninformed claim? Even the crusades was not started because of religion. It was about balance of power, trade routes and other economic factors.

Did you know that the region in question was for years controlled by Mulims and that people of differring faiths got along quite well? That ended when the Seljuk Turks began a campaign against the Byzantines and the European Christians were asked to help fight off the invaders (preservation).

Your signature line certainly rings true in this regard.

 

[Tom R.]

Religion... starting and continuing arguements since the dawn of time, itself. This is a VERY MAJOR reason why I have chosen to follow the basics of " Do as you will, but harm none". At least as closely as I can. It seems to avoid these types of discussions.

No doubt. Topics of doctrine can get dicey and is usually best avoided on Internet forums, but misinformation and half-truths are entirely another matter. People are free to believe what they want, but it shouldn't be hard to be truthful and civil. Having an informed opinion and some knowledge on history doesn't hurt either.

 

[WTF]

the only issue I am concerned with (which oddly enoughwasnt mentioned in the original post) is the dropping of "Under God" from the pledge which, I believe, has resulted in the dropping of the pledge in schools entirely.

One group of whiney people who falls into the extreme minority of the population gets their panties in a wad over something so entirely harmless yet the overwhelming majority is affected.

Now corporate employees can't say "Merry Christmas" without being fired for the possible offense of another one of these people that fall into an ever so minute population.

I work in a position where I can be berated for doing my job well however not being 'sensitive' to the feelings/emotions of other educated adults that I may deal with. (Apparently straightforward is not OK anymore)


This nation is headed to for a future filled with Whiney :rattle: 's.

People are becoming overly sensitive and getting offended by the practces most people reading this have performed for their entire lives.

Oddly enough "In God We Trust" has not been removed from the dollar bills you spend each and every day... Given that fact; What religion truly runs this country???

 

[Tom R.]

Yeah, this age of "tolerance" has actually bred nothing but intolerance.

 

[Matthew Currie]

the only issue I am concerned with (which oddly enoughwasnt mentioned in the original post) is the dropping of "Under God" from the pledge which, I believe, has resulted in the dropping of the pledge in schools entirely.

One group of whiney people who falls into the extreme minority of the population gets their panties in a wad over something so entirely harmless yet the overwhelming majority is affected.

Now corporate employees can't say "Merry Christmas" without being fired for the possible offense of another one of these people that fall into an ever so minute population.

I work in a position where I can be berated for doing my job well however not being 'sensitive' to the feelings/emotions of other educated adults that I may deal with. (Apparently straightforward is not OK anymore)


This nation is headed to for a future filled with Whiney :rattle: 's.

People are becoming overly sensitive and getting offended by the practces most people reading this have performed for their entire lives.

Oddly enough "In God We Trust" has not been removed from the dollar bills you spend each and every day... Given that fact; What religion truly runs this country???

On the pledge, though, I think there's a good reason for dropping "under God." Simply stated, it doesn't belong there. If you think at all about it, it can only either be meaningless or mean the wrong thing. If you believe in God, everything is under God. You could put "under God" in every other phrase of everything you say with as much or as little significance. You might as well say "under the sky" , "surrounded by water," or "made of rocks and dirt." But of course the phrase, as applied in the Pledge, means something else entirely, whether its advocates want to acknowledge it or not. The phrase, inserted there, implies that there is something to do with this country that is godly, guided or sanctioned by God, and that, I think, is questionable, and in about as good taste as the World War I German belt buckle I have that says in a similar vein, "Gott Mit Uns."

I don't think this whole thing is worth that much trouble or crusade or legislation, but I find it an annoyance. I am old enough to remember when we learned the pledge without "under God," which was added in 1954, largely by anti-communist conservatives and dixiecrats. It's a McCarthy-era artifact, and it's too bad that American memories are so short when it comes to some of our nation's nastier moments. It should never have been put in, and I would be glad to see it taken back out, so that the the phrase it so rudely interrupts: "One nation, indivisible..." would regain its rhythm and its explicit, post-civil war, Union connotation.

 

[GSequoia]

I don't even know why I'm stepping in this steaming pile but...

This is not a Christian Country as was previously stated. If it were a Christian country I'd be on my way out. Do a majority of the religious people in this country practice Christianity? Yes. Does that bother me? No. Does it bother me when they pass laws based only on their religious ideals (ie bans on homosexual relations)? Yes, very much.

Now it's no secret that I'm a heathen; I've never tried to cover up my scandalous (lack of) beliefs on this or any other forums. I certinaly hope that doesn't make people think less of me because that's just personal belief and has nothing to do with the kind of person I am or my moral standings.

Now on to prayer in school. There is no law stating that your son or daughter cannot pray to their god/gods of choice right before each and every period; if such a law existed it would be unconstitutional. There are laws / rules stating that Mr. Johnson cannot make all the kids in his P.E. class pray before climbing the rope, this is a just law.

Hell yeah you should be allowed to pray in school, and schools holding religious services on Sundays (that are not connected in any way to the school) is fine with me as those are just a case of an institution renting out space in the school, to me that does not suggest the school condoning any religion over another.

Now on to the pledge... This is where people are gonna hate me. Remove "Under God." It serves no purpose there and was only injected into the pre-existing pledge in the morally correct 1950's. In fact not long after they removed our holding our hands out to the flag (too similar to a salute to a certain mustachio wearing guy...). In fact when I got a little older and learned to think for myself (oh about ten or so) I stopped staying the Under God portion of the pledge (I would just be silent for that portion). I never got in trouble for this except for my brief time in the Boy Scouts - I still didn't say it though .

Oh - and River.. I agree with you. Teachers who are calling students by slurs on their supposed sexuality, race, religion, whatever should not be teachers at all. A teacher needs to be open minded and accepting of all their students.

Oh yeah, post one is crap

 

[TRNDRVR]

Does it bother me when they pass laws based only on their religious ideals (ie bans on homosexual relations)? Yes, very much.

G, are you..........?

 

[GSequoia]

G, are you..........?

Nah, I'm perfectly straight.

But my boyfriend is flaming!

 

[RedHeep]

If we really separate church and state, I want those washington politicians back to work. No religion in government means no christmas, no easter and sunday isn't a day off.
No state funerals at the national cathedral, no prayers before a congressional session and when I repeat the oath I took to defend this country, I'm not saying "so help me God."

Now that all that nonsense is out of the way, what's left? Sounds like some soviet red china to me. Let people practice their religious beliefs, whatever they are, and move on. Don't try to convert me and I won't try to convert you.
This country has gotten so used to its lazy, finger pointing self that it's effectively legislated parenting right out of the equation. Religion has nothing to do with it.

 

[riverfever]

Had some quack substitue teacher at school right before we went on break. She comes over and starts shooting the breeze with me. Then she asks what church I go to. I said, "Ummmmmm...I don't". The discussion then led into a huge thing about why I don't attend church and worship the Lord Jesus Christ. He died for you ya know? I tried to be as polite as I could and she walked away. About 20 minutes later...this beotch comes back to my room with some damn propaganda from her church. Then I got pissed and told her that I was not interested in talking with her or the Lord or going to her church to be brainwashed when I can turn the lights down low at home and pray to the dark monster. She got very upset. Don't come into my school and interact with my kids when you, obviously, have an entirely different agenda. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

 

[casm]

Had some quack substitue teacher at school right before we went on break. She comes over and starts shooting the breeze with me. Then she asks what church I go to. I said, "Ummmmmm...I don't". The discussion then led into a huge thing about why I don't attend church and worship the Lord Jesus Christ. He died for you ya know? I tried to be as polite as I could and she walked away. About 20 minutes later...this beotch comes back to my room with some damn propaganda from her church. Then I got pissed and told her that I was not interested in talking with her or the Lord or going to her church to be brainwashed when I can turn the lights down low at home and pray to the dark monster. She got very upset.

My usual response for these people is the following:

In deepest Africa, there's a tribe that has never heard the word of God, or about the Lord Jesus Christ. One day, a little girl wanders away from the tribe's village into the bush; she's attacked and eaten by a lion. Are you saying that this poor little girl was created by God solely to be eternally condemned to hell simply because she had never heard His word before dying through no fault of her own?

That usually causes them to stammer incoherently for a while, then go someplace quiet where their heads can pop in peace. I'm a Christmas & Easter Episcopalian, but the prayer-everywhere lunatics annoy me as much as the moonbats who get incensed over being wished a Merry Christmas. Same intolerant s***, different wrapper.

 

[Powerman]

I don't see what is so hard to understand. As a citizen, I am guaranteed the right to practice my faith. It would be unconstitutional not to let me practice my faith how I see fit. Prayers before meetings, praying in school, relying on your faith to guide your decisions is protected under law.

Freedom of religion means the government, which is supported by tax dollars, can not force me to believe it it's faith. When the government adopts a religion, it is inherently discriminatory to anyone not of that religion. The school board can't set aside prayer time. The courts can't proclaim allegiance to the 10 commandments. Yes murder is against the law, but honoring your parents isn't. It's just the right thing to do.

Also GS I don't know where you live, but the U.S. is absolutely a Judeo/Christian country. 80% of Americans believe in God. It isn't a Muslim nation, or Hindu, or Budist country. I'm not trying to make any statement by that. It doesn't bother me. But my point is all these religious/political arguments are about Christianity. You don't hear Muslims trying to outlaw pork in schools. You don't hear Hindus crying about persecution. You hear Christians crying about 10 commandment, prayer in school, homosexuality, and evolution. I know who is in the majority. I don't mind secularism making things equal, I mind deliberate attempts to shove Christianity into places it does not belong. Enough winning already.

If they spent more time practicing their beliefs, instead of talking about them, and forcing them on me through politics, things would be a lot better.

 

[Cox89XJ]

If Christians are wrong, what have they lost?
If Atheists are wrong, what have they lost?

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

If Christians are wrong, what have they lost?
If Atheists are wrong, what have they lost?

If people keep posting on this thread, what are they losing?

:laugh2:

 

[casm]

I don't see what is so hard to understand. As a citizen, I am guaranteed the right to practice my faith. It would be unconstitutional not to let me practice my faith how I see fit. Prayers before meetings, praying in school, relying on your faith to guide your decisions is protected under law.

And you are absolutely correct in saying this. However, freedom of religion also includes the freedom to not practice religion - and it should be noted that the 'freedom to not practice' is not the same as 'freedom from' religion.

Freedom of religion means the government, which is supported by tax dollars, can not force me to believe it it's faith.

Precisely.

When the government adopts a religion, it is inherently discriminatory to anyone not of that religion. The school board can't set aside prayer time. The courts can't proclaim allegiance to the 10 commandments. Yes murder is against the law, but honoring your parents isn't. It's just the right thing to do.

And it's interesting to note - both in the context of the US and elsewhere - how much of law has been derived from the predominant religious practices. Religion has traditionally been a fantastic motivator towards instilling decent ethics and morals, and ethics and morals have formed the fundamental parts of the legal systems we use to enforce those characteristics. I don't want to get into splitting hairs over the efficacy of facets of the legal system as a whole, but it still stands that there is a strong interrelationship.

If they spent more time practicing their beliefs, instead of talking about them, and forcing them on me through politics, things would be a lot better.

While I see the point you're making, I'm not sure that's necessarily true - it sounds like a good path to building dogma, and when dogma begins to be seen as absolute we should start to worry.