House Federal Budget that is serious about getting America back on track

Alienspecimen said:
You really didnt call the analysis of millions of years geological record junk science, did you...:roflmao:
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There are those who would say that it's too late. Even if we kill all greenhouse gas emissions tomorrow, the damage has been done. The real progress is to be made in climate engineering. After a large volcanic eruption, the climate generally cools. Why? Sulphur emissions way up into the atmosphere, about 18 miles up. A Seattle company is looking into ways to take advantage of this knowledge. One idea is to run a hose, 18 miles long, into the atmosphere. It would be supported by weather balloons and have a series of small pumps to suck sulphur up and pump it out. This would reverse warming and allow us time to get things figured out.

Also, looking at the graph I was supplied by my professor (who is fully in the Global Warming is happening and it's our fault camp), temperature increases would seem to precede CO2 increases. If CO2 had an impact on our climate, it would seem that it should spike before temperature, not after. Spiking after looks more like temperature increases cause more CO2 to be released, which has been shown. As temperature goes up, more CO2 is released from the ocean, from permafrost, etc.
 
Not intending to hijack the thread, but are you familiar with NAWAPA?......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERq86OlS-_k

Darky said:
Bahahahaha!!! More water subsidies to farmers? Where do you think every single drop of water in the Central and Imperial valleys comes from? Tax-payer funded, heavily subsidized water projects hauling water from the Colorado River. How about we figure out ways to reduce water consumption and put a halt on developing land out here? Most of southern CA is a desert once you get east of the mountains. The Central Valley doesn't have enough water to support the farming going on there, neither does Imperial Valley. Yet we keep building and expanding, shipping water from hundreds of miles away to feed our growth. The Colorado doesn't even reach its mouth in the Gulf of California anymore. Back in the 80's we had to start building a desalinization plant in Yuma to strip the salt out of the water we had promised Mexico. It was killing their crops. The Colorado River Compact was made back in 1922 after a series of years of abnormally high flow. It generally flows below the level they used to divvy up the water, sometimes way below. We're using every drop of that river, and most of the states involved haven't even been using their full allotments yet. CA has consistently been over and AZ was set to use their full amount back in 2005. Check out the Ogalalla Aquifer in the mid west: about 40myrs ago, they made a compact to divvy up its waters. The states then each made plans for the responsible usage of said water...to dry it up within 25-50 yrs. Parts of TX have been sinking as the water is sucked out from under them.

How about we figure out how to use our water smartly before it turns into the next major crisis? Figuring out how to survive once we've used up all our water will be extremely costly.
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kastein said:
I could care less about those right now.

We need to start with the high billions, and the trillions, and maybe after that worry about the dinky little shit like the low billion dollar and the million dollar programs.

Like has already been said, we're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic when it comes to cuts... some of the political third rails need to get stomped on pretty hard if our economy is going to survive.

I can't believe I just said that billion and million dollar programs were small. How the hell did we end up in this position?

To put things in perspective, NASA's entire budget generally is around 17 to 18 billion dollars a year. Yet people aim for NASA because it doesn't produce the same kind of voter rage as taking away welfare, social security, pensions, medicare, etc.
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Correct. We're spending $1.40 for every $1 of revenue. If you or I did that we'd crash and burn in a year. Need to cut EVERY federal budget by 28% to get back within our means. If something can't be cut -- by law or something -- then other budgets need to be cut more than 28% to make up for it.

Doesn't matter how critical things are or how good your intentions. You can't spend money you don't have. But of course you can because they are. Then you have to just print more money to keep from going bankrupt. Argentina-style inflation is on the way. I see no other way this can wind up. They'll never fix it. They won't even try.
 
Perhaps reinstate Glass-Steagall?

Be a lot like cauterizing a nasty wound - it would hurt like hell, but help stop the bleeding.
 
There are those who are trying make real fiscally responsible changes. The business as usual crowd are not happy about it. Lest we forget, the budget for 2011 was supposed to be approved before October 2010. The same folks who are preaching about stopping the games and acting like grownups are the same ones who intentionally failed to do their job by October 2010, so they could play this game........got hypocrisy?
 
bigalpha said:
I think he meant to reduce or eliminate those subsidies?

Also, I think water shortages have already turned into the next crisis.
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Yes I meant CUT the subsidies. Pay the real rate for the water and pass the costs onto the consumer. The water crises (well maybe not this year) is upon us already. Farmers have been pitted against fisherman in the water diversion to feed the CA aqueduct.
 
Darky said:
There are those who would say that it's too late. Even if we kill all greenhouse gas emissions tomorrow, the damage has been done. The real progress is to be made in climate engineering. After a large volcanic eruption, the climate generally cools. Why? Sulphur emissions way up into the atmosphere, about 18 miles up. A Seattle company is looking into ways to take advantage of this knowledge. One idea is to run a hose, 18 miles long, into the atmosphere. It would be supported by weather balloons and have a series of small pumps to suck sulphur up and pump it out. This would reverse warming and allow us time to get things figured out.

Also, looking at the graph I was supplied by my professor (who is fully in the Global Warming is happening and it's our fault camp), temperature increases would seem to precede CO2 increases. If CO2 had an impact on our climate, it would seem that it should spike before temperature, not after. Spiking after looks more like temperature increases cause more CO2 to be released, which has been shown. As temperature goes up, more CO2 is released from the ocean, from permafrost, etc.
Click to expand...

It's all agenda-driven BS. Is global warming real? Maybe. "Scientists" studying it are supporting causes, and science doesn't work that way. If it did the earth would still be flat.

Nevertheless, global warming may be real. Did we cause it? Maybe. Can't really tell since it depends on who you believe. See above answer. But yeah, it's possible.

What can we do about it? NOTHING! This is the biggie. If we abandoned every automobile in the country it would delay the modelled global warming curve by only several days. More to the point, we're not going to abandon every car in the country. Nor will we all go electric anytime soon. Nor will any of the other major countries, two of which have now pushed us into third place in CO2 emissions.

You need to evaluate every single proposal by two standards. 1) Will it be effective? I.E. reverse warming. AND 2) Is it something with any serious chance of being enacted? I've heard of not one thing that can meet both those standards.

If we let mitigation of climate change drag on our economy, we will simply lose standard of living and national wealth. By an order of magnitude, more global deaths will occur thru starvation and disease (thinking Africa for example) due to a global incapacity to provide financial help, than will be caused by climate change.

There are simple things we could do to mitigate coming change. Like not rebuilding cities below sea level once they have been destroyed by flooding. New Orleans/Katrina proves we're not even that smart. Whatever's going to happen, is going to happen people.
 
WAM174 said:
It's all agenda-driven BS. Is global warming real? Maybe. "Scientists" studying it are supporting causes, and science doesn't work that way. If it did the earth would still be flat.

Nevertheless, global warming may be real. Did we cause it? Maybe. Can't really tell since it depends on who you believe. See above answer. But yeah, it's possible.

What can we do about it? NOTHING! This is the biggie. If we abandoned every automobile in the country it would delay the modelled global warming curve by only several days. More to the point, we're not going to abandon every car in the country. Nor will we all go electric anytime soon. Nor will any of the other major countries, two of which have now pushed us into third place in CO2 emissions.

You need to evaluate every single proposal by two standards. 1) Will it be effective? I.E. reverse warming. AND 2) Is it something with any serious chance of being enacted? I've heard of not one thing that can meet both those standards.

If we let mitigation of climate change drag on our economy, we will simply lose standard of living and national wealth. By an order of magnitude, more global deaths will occur thru starvation and disease (thinking Africa for example) due to a global incapacity to provide financial help, than will be caused by climate change.

There are simple things we could do to mitigate coming change. Like not rebuilding cities below sea level once they have been destroyed by flooding. New Orleans/Katrina proves we're not even that smart. Whatever's going to happen, is going to happen people.
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China and India both refuse to consider cutting emissions until they achieve the same standard of living as us. And we have no means by which to force them into cooperation.
 
Exactly. Think of yourself in a life boat with two others. There's three huge holes in the hull and while you're insisting on repairing yours, the other guys are donning life jackets. I.E. it doesn't matter whether you fix yours or not. That boat's gonna sink and you should be getting prepared for it.
 
Alienspecimen said:
XJEEPER said:
Thank you for the read. It was very entertaining, but...to be honest, asking someone to give any credibility to the unsubstantiated claims made by a group of agenda driven extremists is a bit of a stretch.
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Agenda driven extremists: groups or individuals who use speculative climate change theories to promote the massive taxation of emissions to create a trillion dollar market that will fundamentally transform our way of life to support their agenda of global wealth redistribution and social justice.

See: Al Gore, Michael Moore, George Soros, Tides Foundation, Cato Institute, Obama appointed Information and Regulatory Czar- Cass Sunstein http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv31n1/v31n1-3.pdf

Epic fail
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XJEEPER said:
Alienspecimen said:
Agenda driven extremists: groups or individuals who use speculative climate change theories to promote the massive taxation of emissions to create a trillion dollar market that will fundamentally transform our way of life to support their agenda of global wealth redistribution and social justice.

See: Al Gore, Michael Moore, George Soros, Tides Foundation, Cato Institute, Obama appointed Information and Regulatory Czar- Cass Sunstein http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv31n1/v31n1-3.pdf

Epic fail
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Once again, thank you for the entertaining read.

I also liked your list...I know that it is incomplete and work in progress, but may I suggest expanding it in all directions of the political spectrum: if you could add the names of George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan, that would be a great start, as they too are/were part of that wacky global warming thing conspiracy. Thanks.
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GW and RR were not included because they aren't in a position to be influencing current policy. Glad you've seen the light and agree that man-made global warming is a conspiracy and should not receive 1 penny of taxpayer funding.

Meanwhile, back on topic.........the Republicans caved and made a token deal. $38B?
The deficit has increased by $4.08B per day since Sept 28, 2007.......do the math on that.
 
Dozent matter how influential they are at the moment. They too believe that global warming is real (along with number of other right wingers...) The point you didnt get for some reason was that you and the other global warming deniers are a rapidly shrinking minority somewhere in the extreme right. You realize that even if by mistake we elect another conservative president, he will disagree with you on this issue and you wont be considered part of his so called base, dont you?

But I digress and agree that we should get back on topic. How about electing democrats forever, since records shows that books were in order only during years when democrats were in office...

Last, but not least...Congratulations on your victory. Wait...Do I remember the republicans wanting to cut $61B as opposed to the $33B that democrats were agreeing to?
 
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