fun at the garden....

[silverslk]

Tommy, thank you for posting your perspective. It seems that much of this comes from different views. All I can ask is, please listen to what was said about safety. Safety should be the driving factor at all times (as far as spectators go, not wheeling your rig) and it seems that more than one person felt it was "rude" or "unsafe" so just think about that. I agree that you were there helping Matty and that was cool. You could have easily stepped back and said "this is an XJ event so put rocks there" and pointed but that not how we roll and we appreciate that you don't either. I won't continue the bashing of the Rock Garden so that is all. Again thanks for posting, it takes balls to come on here (a XJ site) and defend yourself when it might not work out that way.

 

[hellbilly04]

not going to beat a dead horse Tommy but you & three others were standing at the top of the mini con when CleanRC & I drove through & you guys were in my face telling me my Jeep sucked & wasn't set up right. 20 minutes later you got stuck on a big rock asking for help give me a f'ing break dude. You were nothing but an arrogant ass all day long so keep your two cents it's worthless at this point.......

My two cents, for what it is worth.

As far as me being less than cordial.. That is untrue. I do my best to introduce myself to most anybody that I run into at the Garden. I introduced myself to so many people there I can even remember their names.

Secondly with regards to the group that I was leading in the beginning. About 6 rigs, and not having regard for them.. That is untrue as well. When we got to the shelves there was a white XJ that was stuck there for half an hour. Not sure who it was. I sat and watched for about 15 minutes as you tried to take this XJ up a line it was not equipped for. I have done that obstacle numerous times and knew what line he needed to take. Instead everybody down there opted to get the guy more bound up and block the trail for a greater length of time. I can get into more particulars but I will leave it at that. The attitude of the guys spotting this rig was very standoffish. We were just trying to help as we wheel there every other weekend.

Once the white XJ was extracted from the shelves “MATTYXJ” went threw and I even helped to stack rocks and the rim to get him out. It was finally my turn to lead the group of XJ’s threw the shelves. One of the guys spotting the white XJ comes up to me as I was leading the less built XJ on an easier line threw the shelves and says, “ohh following the stockers I see”…. That was some hospitality and respect right there. So yes I did turn passenger and rail the hell out of my rig. As far as disregard to spectators or children I apologize if you may have thought that. You may have failed to notice my rig was full of four kids. I would never put any spectators, let alone my kids in harms way. So that was a non issue… And yes I was following the stockers line as the rigs behind me were less equipped and could not make the same lines as my ZJ could. The attitude and crap talking from these guys started then. Not one word of negativity came out of my mouth even after this.

I will also address the comments down at the creek when MATTYXJ was stuck. I didn’t just drive up on the spectators sitting on the ledge. They were sitting there and I did ask them to move as I was going to drive up over the ledge. I didn’t feel as though my request was rude. I have done that obstacle 5 times and have only been stuck once. For some reason I shifted to the right and was stuck as well as broke. If I remember correctly I didn’t even get in the way of the Matt’s extraction, and he was pulled out of the back of the obstacle with no issues. As far as me cutting six other rigs on that obstacle I didn’t see one rig waiting to lineup and try. Everybody was just watching the extraction.

As far as the treading lightly comment, I have wheeled Moab, Fordyce, Rubicon, and several other trails. You will never see my rig off a marked trail, nor will any of the other rigs I wheel with. So you comment about our mentality is off , seeing as you have never wheeled with my group. Every rig I wheel with carry’s trash bags, and are constantly cleaning up trash on any trail we go to. The garden is the exception and we are limited to the front half of the property. The more trails we blaze the more obstacles you guys have to try. We are always looking for something new and challenging. And the comp buggies found it!!!!

These comments saying I had no regard for people’s safety are coming way out nowhere. I am over this drama and just want to leave my perspective on some of “FEW” topics being discussed here. You guys can bash me all you want. I wish no ill will on any of you guys and would still help you in a minute no matter what trail you were on or if you decide to go back to the Garden or not. I will be there will look forward to seeing you guys back. I personally never was belligerent nor did I bash any of your XJ’s. I get that enough when I take my ZJ out…

 

[598BBC]

WOW.... Sorry to hear all the discontent, about this past Wknd. I thought it was a great time, This was my first time at a event, and My 4th time at the garden, it is a shame that a few, may have got there feelings hurt, or offended by what may or may not have been said.. I just know from my personal expierence, that the staff at the garden have always been courtreous and respectful to me. As far as the double standard goes on the drinking aspect, I dont believe that its right, but I did witness a few members indulging themselves also, whether they were wheeling or not, "no alcohol means no alcohol". I just hope everyone will sit back and rethink the whole situaition, and come up with Ideas to make this place better for everyone, with all the land being slowly taken away from Us, places to play are becoming very limited. I hope that I have not offended anyone with this post, just thinking that this can all be worked out..

 

[RWKHausSupply]

not going to beat a dead horse Tommy but you & three others were standing at the top of the mini con when CleanRC & I drove through & you guys were in my face telling me my Jeep sucked & wasn't set up right. 20 minutes later you got stuck on a big rock asking for help give me a f'ing break dude. You were nothing but an arrogant ass all day long so keep your two cents it's worthless at this point.......

Oh sh1t! this coming from billy! the guy that has given me full usage of his bling welder for my project, and help many many more when ever he can, and Clean-RC, the guy that will do / does the same!

That evaluation above stands Very high in my regards as to what the activites entailed.

 

[Tommy_M]

Hellbilly, sorry you are confusing me with someone else sir. I was not at the top of the CON talking trash about your XJ. I was on the side with my wife and kids. I never bashed any of your rigs.

 

[MJlogan]

Stick 50 rigs and a whole bunch of dudes in a 40 acre area and you are bound to have some misunderstanding. Everyone has a different perspective and its unfortunate that sometimes people get their lines crossed. Theres going to be some smack talking and what not. Hell i was driving (if you could call it that haha) an IFS Ford Ranger and am sure people thought i was an idiot and my rig sucks. Oh well i was having a good time.

I had a blast and every one of the staff members i talked to was totally cool. Also appreciate you guys opening it up to non- XJ's.

 

[Tommy_M]

Nor was I arrogant at any point. If you want to think it was me that is fine, it wasn't. I was not at the top of the con at all watching. Thsi was about the same time Rick rolled and I ran from the side to help get him right sided. So you are confusing me with someone else.

My 7 year old daughter was sleeping in the back of my rig and I was keeping an eye on her.

 

[silverslk]

Billy, the three guys talking shit (2 were in orange shirts and the other wearing a regular shirt said something about "when I build a rig" or something like that) were standing right next to me. After seeing a pic of Tommy in one of the many rock garden posts I am not sure it was him.

 

[FordGuy]

Billy, the three guys talking shit (2 were in orange shirts and the other wearing a regular shirt said something about "when I build a rig" or something like that) were standing right next to me. After seeing a pic of Tommy in one of the many rock garden posts I am not sure it was him.

Unfortunately, right or wrong, when you have two rigs that have several people around acting like they were, they are all going to be grouped together as the problem. Tommy is probably a way cool guy, I don't know him, but I did listen to the spotters mouth all night, so if I offended the wrong guy, Let me apologize Tommy, but your buddy was acting like he needed his ass kicked. And by the way, I think eveyone thought your Rig was bitchin, we were just entertained by your driving. Please don't confuse the two.

 

[GirlySkwerly]

My last 30 minutes there....
-Zj guy getting stuck and yanked, pulled over in line with XJ's, heard some grumbles from the ZJ group including profanities about the group of XJ's, ZJ guy pulls away and waves at group of XJ's.
-Group of XJ's leaves "the creek" we were last ones to get going and lucky for the XJ with the dead battery we were, cause we stopped to give him a jump. Got going the wrong way after helping, noticed that the other XJ was following, until another set of headlights and sound of a reving engine came upon us VERY fast. The mysterious headlights pulled alongside us engine revving and yelling coming from the truck. It scared me I told Skwerly to stop, this guy was running us off the road!! We stopped and the ZJ sped past us off the trail yelling "f you bitches get the f out of the way f'ers...ect."
-Worried to be out alone with apparently out of control people we turned around and headed the right way back to the front gate.
-Pulled up to group of XJ's airing up and were about to warn the staff that there was someone running people off the road when a White Wrangler pulled up at about 40 miles an hour, fishtailed, locked brakes and stopped about 20 feet from me standing outside the truck. An orange shirt guy jumps out of the wrangler yelling "who the f didn't help my buddy when he was stuck?" I said "he did get help" reply (at the top of his lungs) "it took 15 minutes for someone to help him while all you f'ers sat there and watched talking s**t" me.."I don't know what you're talking about he didn't ask us for help" him.."F it you're all out of here mf'ers, get out, you're all done"
-Now twice as scared and wanting to get out we decided to forego airing up, but my bladder wouldn't forego what it needed. I walked toward the P.potty's Tony's jeep and the ZJ on my left and right, someone from the ZJ crowd was yelling at Tony at his window. From the ZJ side a man standing in the dark said "I'll kill you bitch" or "I'll kill you bitches" I kept my head forward and just kept moving.
-Made it back to the XJ and there was a guy standing at my window talking to Skwerly something about not helping, talking s**t. (this guy had glassy eyes, seemed to be swaying on his feet and was slurring his words slightly) I told him "no it doesn't matter what kind of s**t was talked someone over there juat threatened to kill me so whatever issue you've got is now bullS. He says I understand I understand but its still f'ed up (arms out and swaying) he walks away.
-We see the white wranger guy milling about with a beer in his hands, not a red bull, a beer.
-Now triple scared we drive away, catch up with Tony, Slim and a few others and fill them in. Tony says lets go NOW, tells us to stay in the middle of the group (as someone may have said he was going to kill me, or maybe he just was going to kill the entire group of XJ's) we left.
-We left, scared, confused, disappointed. We had a fun day. We were not at all put off by the Rock Garden until we realized that the ZJ guy was a friend of the staff/volunteers/owners nephew and his behavior was supported by them.

These are the facts (in quick as possible summary) of my experience. They are not about s**t talking, or being rude. MY experience was scared, threatened, getting kicked out for nothing, at the end just wanting to get away as fast as possible. My intention behind this is not to vilify the Rock Garden simply to inform as to our experience so others know what they might encounter. Without the staff being involved I would have chalked it up to drunk, stupid, it happens, but the staff was involved in our VERY BAD last 30 min. of the Rock Garden.

 

[GrimmJeeper]

thats the same guy i was talking about. the guy driving the white CJ is the only one i really had a problem with. i left while tommy was still stuck, so i dont know about what happened after that, but that kid sure was talking alot of shit about every person that drove by, and screaming beaner at the top of his lungs. him and the guys that were in the CJ with him all hopped out with beers while we watched people run the minicon, and they were talking shit the whole time.

 

[RWKHausSupply]

and screaming beaner at the top of his lungs.. .

Dude he knew you?? :eyes: :dunno:

:rof:

well those here that will accept what happened, out of context even, are with ya. Those here that dont care have made thier stance known, and just dont give a f... and thats thier right.

now as long as we can let this thread go and not get to verbal or negitive, it can be saved (not removed that is) and be in a search results for all on google, or here, in the future. And they too can read and learn and make thier own conclusions.

 

[Tommy_M]

I will take some of the heat for my passenger. I know exactly who you are talking about and will speak with him about it. I apologize for his conduct. Please don't let that reflect on the Garden as a whole... Nonetheless, I will step up and apologize if you felt threatened at any point. You can believe this, I would never put my kids in a situation that would be harmful. You don't know me so I understand where you are coming from.

I also apologize for tearing by you guys at the bottom of the creek. I was hauling ass making a round to see if there were any other rigs on the bottom still. Nonetheless I apologize if I scrarred you. That was a dick move on my part and admit it...

With that being said... Take it easy, and I hope to see you guys out on the trails somewhere, TDS, Miller Jeep Trail, Fordyce, Rubicon, EJS Moab.....

 

[danwho]

This was my 1st outing for rock-crawling (not for off-roading). I was just a passenger, my rigs not ready for this stuff. I went to support the cause, hang out with the club and watch.
Now I'm older than most, if not all, of the members there, even Santa I think.:laugh3:
My impression:
group, without a doubt, great bunch of guys/gals. I have not met a nicer, more accepting group of people in years.
Rock Garden group at check-in, very friendly, helpful.
Rock Garden group at 10PM, rude, arrogant, mean.
Guy in ZJ, great rig, but immature, showoff.

Just my 2c.

 

[GirlySkwerly]

I will take some of the heat for my passenger. I know exactly who you are talking about and will speak with him about it. I apologize for his conduct. You don't know me so I understand where you are coming from.

I also apologize for tearing by you guys at the bottom of the creek. I was hauling ass making a round to see if there were any other rigs on the bottom still. Nonetheless I apologize if I scrarred you. That was a dick move on my part and admit it...

..

Thank you for the apology. People have insinuated or outright called me a liar I was beginning to think I hallucinated the whole thing.

 

[Tommy_M]

This was my 1st outing for rock-crawling (not for off-roading). I was just a passenger, my rigs not ready for this stuff. I went to support the cause, hang out with the club and watch.
Now I'm older than most, if not all, of the members there, even Santa I think.:laugh3:
My impression:
group, without a doubt, great bunch of guys/gals. I have not met a nicer, more accepting group of people in years.
Rock Garden group at check-in, very friendly, helpful.
Rock Garden group at 10PM, rude, arrogant, mean.
Guy in ZJ, great rig, but immature, showoff.

Just my 2c.

Man, immature and a show off. I did two obstacles the whole day, with the exception of after dark. I had four kids in the ZJ the whole day, not sure how I even showed off when my rig was parked and broken most of the day. It was broke 20 minutes into the day. Must have made an impression on those two obstacles. You can call me immature, I am am far from that sir...


Nonetheless you are entitlted to your opinion. Hope toy see you out on the trail one of these days so I can change your perception of my persona and attitude.

Tommy

 

[Tommy_M]

Thank you for the apology. People have insinuated or outright called me a liar I was beginning to think I hallucinated the whole thing.

I didn't hear the comment you speak of but I will take your word for it. Again I apologize for his conduct. I was sitting back on my ZJ talking with my wife and messing with my kids. I wish I would have know what was going on by your rig. I would have diffused it there.


Tommy

 

[erikwylie]

I will take some of the heat for my passenger. I know exactly who you are talking about and will speak with him about it. I apologize for his conduct. Please don't let that reflect on the Garden as a whole... Nonetheless, I will step up and apologize if you felt threatened at any point. You can believe this, I would never put my kids in a situation that would be harmful. You don't know me so I understand where you are coming from.

I also apologize for tearing by you guys at the bottom of the creek. I was hauling ass making a round to see if there were any other rigs on the bottom still. Nonetheless I apologize if I scrarred you. That was a dick move on my part and admit it...

With that being said... Take it easy, and I hope to see you guys out on the trails somewhere, TDS, Miller Jeep Trail, Fordyce, Rubicon, EJS Moab.....

Tommy, it takes a big man to step up the way you just did and apoligise!!! Hats off to you!!! I am glad that someone reminded me! Who ever the guy was that was yelling "Beaner" was the culprit for 98% of what this thread is about! Not only is that racial and rude, but down right WRONG!!!!! I had heard him many time refer to that remark as "beaner this and beaner that" Sorry but that is fucked up!!!

Tommy, thanks for standing up and apoligising!

my $.02 your stock just went up quite a bit with me! not that it means much

 

[1xfloppy]

I will take some of the heat for my passenger. I know exactly who you are talking about and will speak with him about it. I apologize for his conduct. Please don't let that reflect on the Garden as a whole... Nonetheless, I will step up and apologize if you felt threatened at any point. You can believe this, I would never put my kids in a situation that would be harmful. You don't know me so I understand where you are coming from.

I also apologize for tearing by you guys at the bottom of the creek. I was hauling ass making a round to see if there were any other rigs on the bottom still. Nonetheless I apologize if I scrarred you. That was a dick move on my part and admit it...

With that being said... Take it easy, and I hope to see you guys out on the trails somewhere, TDS, Miller Jeep Trail, Fordyce, Rubicon, EJS Moab.....

bro im gonna have to call bs on that one...i was the blue jeep parked next to the wranglers...i got up there as you were talking to your wife...your words were, "they were talking that much sh!t?" then you sped off like a mad man! door slammed before leaving...

 

[GrimmJeeper]

Tommy, it takes a big man to step up the way you just did and apoligise!!! Hats off to you!!!

Tommy, thanks for standing up and apoligising!

my $.02 your stock just went up quite a bit with me! not that it means much

i was just thinking the same thing.