ROKRWLR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Arvada, CO
I'm gunna build my next cage outta wood dowels
If you do, bass wood is denser than balsa wood, and everyone knows pine is for poop!
First cage build
- Thread starter OutkastBoss
- Start date
If you do, bass wood is denser than balsa wood, and everyone knows pine is for poop!
ROKRWLR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Arvada, CO
I'm gunna build my next cage outta wood dowels
Ouch. Was that a Hard roll or did something just catch you the wrong way?
I'm gunna build my next cage outta wood dowels
Sounds good...next time go with thicker wall wooden dowels and they may not crush and collapse...I have the same style a pillar design...it is crap...but it is what fits you have a long section of un supported tube and it is at a shallow angle...this why they say it is not as mu h the material used but rather the design ...wall thickness is the major factor to minimize dents not going dom over hrew in identical wall thickness...
I was going to no put doors back on after boatsides as to maximize the strengh of pillats like the A on the exo but I put skins and working doors not fixed on so my pillar looks like yours...but you have no doors so that design on the pillar is just poor if expecting anything but what you have in the pic .
ftwelder
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rockinham, Vermont
I am doing a cage in mine also. 1-5/8" OD. All DOM, halo, main hoop and diagionals and A pillars are .188 wall. all the rest is .120.
Untitled by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
Untitled by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
IMG_4412 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
Untitled by barnstormerbikes, on FlickrUntitled by barnstormerbikes, on FlickrIMG_4412 by barnstormerbikes, on FlickrI am doing a cage in mine also. 1-5/8" OD. All DOM, halo, main hoop and diagionals and A pillars are .188 wall. all the rest is .120.
Was on the Rogue fab website awhile back they had a nice calc for tube strenghs ...the 1.75 HREW was stronger than 1.5 dom ...not sure how it stacked up to 1-5/8 probably about equal . you could also see what wall thickness did for strengh. like you all my big Contact points are thicker wall the halo unfortunately was made of .120 so best I could do was slide some 1.5 into the sidees to double the wall...lol...I'll take the few extra pounds in tube vs a cage the blushes everytime it rubs a rock .
ftwelder
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rockinham, Vermont
when comparing diameters one needs to consider "length of unsupported span" so it's up to me to create enough triangles to make it all work well. On a side note, I paid way too much for my material so not taking home any ribbons. lol.
What you mean I can't run one 1.75 tube the entire. Length of my roof and just drop a d pillar and a pillar and call it good in the middle because It is DOM .???
- Location
- San Diego
I mean you can...
Naaah I built my rig to accomodate my general lack of driving skill ...weighs about 5800 lbs as a result .
Using appropriate wall thickness for the job the piece is expected to do is engineering. Throwing a bunch of mass at something to make up for lack of consideration is not. The triangle braces, and other items that are only there to add structure to the cage, and are not primary pieces of the cage being made out of 0.095" wall will have almost zero effect on the cage's strength if designed correctly. Bonus is it's also cheaper to buy and easier/cheaper to work.
Since most of the weight is on top of the rig with this cage design, every little bit helps. If all it takes is a shirtless tweaker and a rope to keep a rig from tipping, those few pounds saved could mean the difference between going for a ride or not.
Since most of the weight is on top of the rig with this cage design, every little bit helps. If all it takes is a shirtless tweaker and a rope to keep a rig from tipping, those few pounds saved could mean the difference between going for a ride or not.
- Location
- Murrieta
I am doing a cage in mine also. 1-5/8" OD. All DOM, halo, main hoop and diagionals and A pillars are .188 wall. all the rest is .120.
Not to be a buzz kill, but how do you plan to replace a windshield with that set up? I ask because my brother found out the hard way and we had to do some re-arranging after the fact.
ftwelder
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rockinham, Vermont
I have been thinking about that. I should call the local windshield guy and have him take a look.
ROKRWLR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Arvada, CO
I was thinking the same thing when I saw your tubes on top. For what it's worth, here's mine. It took finding a windshield guy willing to try, and with me helping him slide the glass in place, we got the windshield in, but it was tight. Any more overlap or a cowl bar would have made it not possible.
My a pillar bars are close to the windshield but only overlap the molding. The gussets on the connection to the halo are the only thing overlapping the glass.
Some guys don't even bother trying to put glass in it.
ftwelder
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rockinham, Vermont
ROK, I agree mine may be too close. I think yours are a little close on on one plane and further on another but not much different. I don't have the roof rack tacked in yet so I am OK so far.
I also have a huge windshield leak so I need to find a local specialist who can sort me out.
:cheers:
I also have a huge windshield leak so I need to find a local specialist who can sort me out.
:cheers:
ROKRWLR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Arvada, CO
You could always get it replaced before the cage is done and protect the hell out of it while welding and grinding! Then just never break it again.
ftwelder
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rockinham, Vermont
I think I am just going to make new A pillar tubes like yours, upper mess like rockcrawlers and call it a week.
OutkastBoss
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Saint louis
If you mean the front fender then kind of, with the exception that the fender would be over that tube still and has plate armor with a tube fender. I would tie the current armor/ steel fender into the tube running underneath the fender. Also the top tube behind the fender would come out the front at the top corner of the front header and tie into my bumper.Like this up front?
Kinda like this but different, I can't decide wheter the top tube should be half sunk into the fender or just underneath its skin:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203173854162729&set=t.1472389332&type=3&theater
Looks like you have the A pillar continue back as the halo, I like the look of the ones I have seen where the halo is one continuous piece. I would be interested to see how the D pillar legs attach in the rear of yours.
I'm gunna build my next cage outta wood dowels
That is a nasty dent, what material and wall thickness did you use there?
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OutkastBoss
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Saint louis
Back again! I am going with D.O.M. since it isn't that much more and is the prevailing method. Even if Hrew is fine It's not the readily accepted standard. Rather than reinvent the wheel or convincing myself and others why the prevailing method wasn't right for me I will follow suit.
This thread has been productive for me I think I will go with a .188 for the A pillars and main halo. Especially since the .120 wall I used on my outer tube rail on my 2x6 rockers has some pretty nasty dents already. I will still use .120 wall for the rest. I will also be making sure the windshield is replaceable.
We have the B- Pillar floor plate tied in like Eric did in the link I shared previously. The C and D Pillar plates are tied into the frame Like 93northwestxj did his D pillar one in the link I shared earlier. We already had the 2x6 rockers so our tie ins for all the pillars are in and we are just waiting on tube to get this cage build going for real! I may add a reinforced plate on the top of the trans hump like Ft welder did when I go to do the internal bracing on the B-pillar.
The spoiler bar ideas were to try and incorporate my Orvis spoiler into the build but I don't think they work off paper.
I am thinking at the rear we will go with what I dubbed D-2 in my drawings above. It looks something like this: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=243652009&postcount=7
I am going to get some 1.5" and 1.25" .120 for the little legs that may be at the corners of the front and rear of halo, the interior grab bar or tie ins to existing front and rear quarter armor.
This is a really good example of how I want the front of the halo to be shaped. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-cherokee/1747137-one-them-hybrid-cage-builds-lots-pics.html
Anyways that's the update on where my heads going w this project.
This thread has been productive for me I think I will go with a .188 for the A pillars and main halo. Especially since the .120 wall I used on my outer tube rail on my 2x6 rockers has some pretty nasty dents already. I will still use .120 wall for the rest. I will also be making sure the windshield is replaceable.
We have the B- Pillar floor plate tied in like Eric did in the link I shared previously. The C and D Pillar plates are tied into the frame Like 93northwestxj did his D pillar one in the link I shared earlier. We already had the 2x6 rockers so our tie ins for all the pillars are in and we are just waiting on tube to get this cage build going for real! I may add a reinforced plate on the top of the trans hump like Ft welder did when I go to do the internal bracing on the B-pillar.
The spoiler bar ideas were to try and incorporate my Orvis spoiler into the build but I don't think they work off paper.
I am thinking at the rear we will go with what I dubbed D-2 in my drawings above. It looks something like this: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=243652009&postcount=7
I am going to get some 1.5" and 1.25" .120 for the little legs that may be at the corners of the front and rear of halo, the interior grab bar or tie ins to existing front and rear quarter armor.
This is a really good example of how I want the front of the halo to be shaped. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-cherokee/1747137-one-them-hybrid-cage-builds-lots-pics.html
Anyways that's the update on where my heads going w this project.
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OutkastBoss
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Saint louis
Hey guys the cage build is going great, I wanted to check in and share a bit. When it's done I will post in more detail and pics on my build thread that I will be updating soon.
We did end up using .120 wall on everything with the exception of the halo and A-pillars being .188 wall
The C and D floor plates have keyed pieces of plate through them and welded to the frame stiffeners. The B Pillar plate has a large bolt that ends up inside the tube that sandwiches the metal (its still welded) to a thick piece of U channel cut at an angle for clearance that spans from the frame stiffener to the 2x6 rockers. With the A-pillars tied into the 2x6 and forward to the front bumper it should be pretty solid!
We got all the pillars in but will be waiting on seats and harnesses to finish the shoulder bars and internal triangulation. Most of which will be at the C pillar, we decided we will compromise a bit for passengers with the B pillar triangulation.
Really it is a family rig on 4" and 33's (Locked/Locked) so we don't get into anything too nasty. I'd say we run the upper end of mediums or lower end of hard trails and medium rock gardens. We also do scenic type wheeling where rollovers are rare. Despite that we have almost rolled once and had 2 "partial flops" where we needed pulled back on all fours.
Here is the top front it was put together with being able to change the windshield in mind. It will have plates where it passes through the roof and a round trim piece from underneath where it passes through the headliner
This last part I am still a little undecided on. I originally wanted this tube to run inside of my fender to keep the clean look we wanted. With the previously done fender flares, their supports, and some inner fender clearancing to stuff tires better. They are welded and bolted in more than a couple places. All of that made running through the fender very difficult so we made a couple of slight bends to keep our tube as tight as possible instead. I think it adds more protection and if we ever (I hope not) flop or roll it would protect that "XJ shape" I wanted to keep. They really don't seem to affect visibility much at all and I think will grow on me.
It does make painting it a little more confusing. I was going to do a semi gloss black cage and body match the front tube. But that was when it was going to disappear into the header panel. I definitely don't want to look down the hood and see black bars down the corners. So either I will body match the cage outside and do black inside to match the interior. Or more likely I will body match the bumper tie in but still do from the A pillar back in black.
Thanks
for the comments, pics and place to have this for reference later!
We did end up using .120 wall on everything with the exception of the halo and A-pillars being .188 wall
The C and D floor plates have keyed pieces of plate through them and welded to the frame stiffeners. The B Pillar plate has a large bolt that ends up inside the tube that sandwiches the metal (its still welded) to a thick piece of U channel cut at an angle for clearance that spans from the frame stiffener to the 2x6 rockers. With the A-pillars tied into the 2x6 and forward to the front bumper it should be pretty solid!
We got all the pillars in but will be waiting on seats and harnesses to finish the shoulder bars and internal triangulation. Most of which will be at the C pillar, we decided we will compromise a bit for passengers with the B pillar triangulation.
Really it is a family rig on 4" and 33's (Locked/Locked) so we don't get into anything too nasty. I'd say we run the upper end of mediums or lower end of hard trails and medium rock gardens. We also do scenic type wheeling where rollovers are rare. Despite that we have almost rolled once and had 2 "partial flops" where we needed pulled back on all fours.
Here is the top front it was put together with being able to change the windshield in mind. It will have plates where it passes through the roof and a round trim piece from underneath where it passes through the headliner
This last part I am still a little undecided on. I originally wanted this tube to run inside of my fender to keep the clean look we wanted. With the previously done fender flares, their supports, and some inner fender clearancing to stuff tires better. They are welded and bolted in more than a couple places. All of that made running through the fender very difficult so we made a couple of slight bends to keep our tube as tight as possible instead. I think it adds more protection and if we ever (I hope not) flop or roll it would protect that "XJ shape" I wanted to keep. They really don't seem to affect visibility much at all and I think will grow on me.
It does make painting it a little more confusing. I was going to do a semi gloss black cage and body match the front tube. But that was when it was going to disappear into the header panel. I definitely don't want to look down the hood and see black bars down the corners. So either I will body match the cage outside and do black inside to match the interior. Or more likely I will body match the bumper tie in but still do from the A pillar back in black.
Thanks
for the comments, pics and place to have this for reference later!podm98c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- napoleon,ohio
Looking good, can't wait to see it at winterfest!
