Engine oil! ZDDP! Rabblerabblerabble... A testimonial.

[MoparManiac]

How bout I don't and you just tell me what you're running cam and compression wise and maybe a horsepower and torque number, if you know any of that



My first 4.0 didn't make it to 200k without additives. That's not my point, who knows if running better oil and maybe additive could've prevented it. I eventually cracked a piston and when I tore the engine apart the cam was in pretty bad shape. My point is that you having good luck with a few 4.0's doesn't make it law that ZDP is useless in them. There's a difference between causation and correlation.

How many times do I have to say that I don't think ZDP is necessary??? I also never said anything about it being "financially beneficial", try reading, it helps. What I said was that for as cheap as ZDP additives are, it's a good idea to use them.

Also, the additive I use is just under half of $5 so according to your math it would cause me about $150 every 200k miles. Is that worth it to me to decrease my chances of an engine failure? Hell yes it is.

I think it's hilarious that you're arguing against scientific fact. ZDP decreases wear on metal parts. The 4.0 is made of metal parts. Less wear = tighter tolerances = less chance of parts failure.

But I guess somehow the 4.0 is an exception to the laws of physics

And here we go with the insults

You have 0 proof with your claim since you didn't provide any information on what happened to your engine.

I, along with SEVERAL others, have actual evidence that there is no noticeable decrease in performance/durability/reliability when not running ZDDP additives in a 4.0. Did I say it was law? Nope, but you don't have any EVIDENCE to back up your claim that it's beneficial other than people claiming it is.

You ARE making a financial case out of this by introducing the cost of the additive. I don't want to spend that kind of money every oil change (I did one every 1.5 months due to how much I drive) because the benefit couldn't be proven to me. Maybe if I had a high dollar, high performance engine, but the 4.0 is neither of those two.

You can't prove it decreases the chance of engine failure. According to who?

The 4.0 isn't exempt from physics, it's exempt from your horrible attempt at trying to rationalize the fact that ZDDP additives just give you a "warm and fuzzy feeling inside".

 

[Dundy]

My engine exploded because while I was talking to a friend in it one day I told him that I wasn't gonna use ZDDP anymore. It got mad at me...

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

You have 0 proof with your claim since you didn't provide any information on what happened to your engine.

The point of my "proof" went right over your head. My point was that one bad experience with oil without ZDP additives or ten bad experiences with oil without ZDP additives doesn't prove anything. Neither does 10 good experiences without ZDP additives. I even said:

who knows if running better oil and maybe additive could've prevented it

Also:

I eventually cracked a piston and when I tore the engine apart the cam was in pretty bad shape

Seriously, did you even read the post?

You can't prove it decreases the chance of engine failure. According to who?

Uh, scientists? It's scientifically proven to be an extremely effective anti-wear agent for metal parts.

Try this abstract http://avspublications.org/jvsta/resource/1/jvtad6/v6/i3/p971_s1?isAuthorized=no

But if you believe that ZDP is an extremely effective anti-wear agent on metal parts and of course the 4.0 is a collection of metal parts but that somehow it wouldn't benefit from ZDP then you're absolutely right, it's completely useless

 

[kastein]

one thing... it is ZDDP not ZDP.

you're driving me nuts with that :spin1:

 

[DieselSJ]

How bout I don't and you just tell me what you're running cam and compression wise and maybe a horsepower and torque number, if you know any of that

I do know it. I put it together. However, there are things that I don't share in a public forum. Why? Jeepspeed is now has an engine claimer rule. Why would I advertise?

 

[ROBZ95Xj]

owned 3 4.0's only one has seen a additive(mmo) later that night it blew up, the one from my 93 had 203k when pulled always ran valvoline 10w30 with mobil1 filter curently in my new jeep still pulling strong at 207k+ other motor is in my 95 parents got it with 93k on it, i got it woth 183k it maybee saw 5 or 6 oil changes in that 6 years mostly q state or valvoline motor still runs fine even after sitting 2.5 years with no oil so i ask why is this zddp shit so important?

 

[MoparManiac]

Uh, scientists? It's scientifically proven to be an extremely effective anti-wear agent for metal parts.

Try this abstract http://avspublications.org/jvsta/resource/1/jvtad6/v6/i3/p971_s1?isAuthorized=no

But if you believe that ZDP is an extremely effective anti-wear agent on metal parts and of course the 4.0 is a collection of metal parts but that somehow it wouldn't benefit from ZDP then you're absolutely right, it's completely useless

I can't get through to you. Prove to me its beneficial in a 4.0.

If i can get 300k on a 4.0 that's fine for me. I'll save the money from the ZDDP additives and drop in another low mileage 4.0 when it blows up.

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

one thing... it is ZDDP not ZDP.

you're driving me nuts with that :spin1:

Lol I'm sorry, ZDDP is actually a product of zinc dithiophosphate hence ZDP.

I do know it. I put it together. However, there are things that I don't share in a public forum. Why? Jeepspeed is now has an engine claimer rule. Why would I advertise?

How much is the claimer?

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

I can't get through to you. Prove to me its beneficial in a 4.0.

If i can get 300k on a 4.0 that's fine for me. I'll save the money from the ZDDP additives and drop in another low mileage 4.0 when it blows up.

If you can reliably get 300k on your 4.0 then that's great, save your money on a zdDp additive and buy a couple air fresheners or somethin :greensmok

I'm just saying that it IS a potent anti-wear agent and for that reason and the fact that it keeps my valvetrain quiet, I think it's worth using.

But then again I'm the type that looks for a cumulative effect of many small factors aka... anal retentive

 

[MoparManiac]

Spice air fresheners > ZDDP

 

[Glenn B]

I will just say that after switching to Rotella T6, my 4.0 has the best idle it has ever had. Butter smooth.

When I purchased it, I did a change to conventional Valvoline, next change was Valvoline High Mileage. Last change was T6. Cold start is much improved... no clatter/noise. Pounding the crap out of it in the sand/arroyos, great oil pressure.

The engine purrs like a kitten. On that alone, I am sold. If the ZDDP helps the old girl last longer, great. If not, that is also cool with me.

As a side note, I walked to work today... the bitch would not start. LOL. I am sure it is unrelated to the oil that I use though. Yes, it is now running.

 

[jonnycat]

EPA thought MTBE was a great fuel additive idea once as well! All it did was trade a little less air emissions, for massive drinking water contamination.

I used to run MTBE in my old chevy, and man did it give it a boost. Great stuff unless you're a bonehead and spill it (which apparently some did). Bastards.

 

[foxwar71]

Buff Chix Pizza air fresheners > Spice air fresheners

.!..!.

 

[kastein]

I used to run MTBE in my old chevy, and man did it give it a boost. Great stuff unless you're a bonehead and spill it (which apparently some did). Bastards.

Or burn it... which puts lead particles in the air, which get picked up by water and washed into basically anything.

EDIT: I am a retard and thought MTBE was another name for TEL. :dunce: forget you ever saw this post.

 

[Ecomike]

And here we go with the insults

You have 0 proof with your claim since you didn't provide any information on what happened to your engine.

I, along with SEVERAL others, have actual evidence that there is no noticeable decrease in performance/durability/reliability when not running ZDDP additives in a 4.0. Did I say it was law? Nope, but you don't have any EVIDENCE to back up your claim that it's beneficial other than people claiming it is.

Can you prove that there was no ZDDP in the oils you used? Did you sample each oil batch and test for ZDDP when added?

Autozone's brand cheap dyno oil, 20W50 has plenty of ZDDP in it still. It does not meet SM API spec. I use it. I have nearly 300,000 miles on my 87 Renix using oils with ZDDP. It uses about 1/2 a quart in 3000 miles between oil changes.

 

[MoparManiac]

Nope, didn't sample or test each batch.

I guess I should clarify my whole argument that ZDDP additives, in my opinion, are not worth adding in as I have yet to have a problem with any 4.0 I run conventional oil in.

I've never run Autozone brand oil as they were never on sale :laugh:. It was always Mobile something or Castrol something and got a deal if you purchased an STP or some other brand filter along with it. I never used Pennzoil/Quaker State.

 

[Ecomike]

Nope, didn't sample or test each batch.

I guess I should clarify my whole argument that ZDDP additives, in my opinion, are not worth adding in as I have yet to have a problem with any 4.0 I run conventional oil in.

I've never run Autozone brand oil as they were never on sale :laugh:. It was always Mobile something or Castrol something and got a deal if you purchased an STP or some other brand filter along with it. I never used Pennzoil/Quaker State.

Many of the Castrol and Mobil oils have ZDDP, some in a fair quantity still. It is very hard lately to figure out which can has how much ZDDP in it.

My concern has been the lack of full disclosure, by some and on each container, so I have stuck with oils that are labeled API SL and NOT LABELED API SM compliant. As some SM oils now have no ZDDP, while others still have nearly .08% ZDDP. The problem is none of them ran adequite tests on old engines and old engine hardware designs for the SM oil specs, or for the replacement blends of new trial additives they replaced all or some of the ZDDP with.

API SL, but not SM complaint oils still have .12% ZDDP

 

[DieselSJ]

How much is the claimer?

$4k. They set it at that because ATK will sell a "Jeepspeed" special engine for $3995.

 

[austinaubinoe]

every body over at Full Size Jeep Association recommends 15w40 for the broken in AMC v8's. Mine leaked less, ran smoother and quitted down.

In my 4.0 I just went full synthetic Castrol edge, but its pretty pricey. So in my 4.0 im gonna go shell aswell. Question is 15w40 or 10w30 Rotella? It has about 160k on the clock.

Thanks!

 

[ehall]

I will just say that after switching to Rotella T6, my 4.0 has the best idle it has ever had. Butter smooth.

I use Rotella 10w30 because the engine runs noticeably better with it. It's really surprising.

every body over at Full Size Jeep Association recommends 15w40 for the broken in AMC v8's. Mine leaked less, ran smoother and quitted down.

In my 4.0 I just went full synthetic Castrol edge, but its pretty pricey. So in my 4.0 im gonna go shell aswell. Question is 15w40 or 10w30 Rotella? It has about 160k on the clock.

Check the owners manual on your FSJ for weight--heavier oil will not flow through the engine as well and can cause some serious problems. In the manual for my Cadillac it has bold letter warning DO NOT USE 10w40 for example.

Also FWIW my XJ had ~330k miles on the clock when I took it over from my mom. She had the oil changed at Jiffy Lube, with whatever oil they had on sale that day.