Does Shell Rotella T still have ZDDP??

Anyone ever run the oil that is "bottled" just for motorcycles in their XJs? I know they have ridiculously high amounts of ZDDP, most are still SJ rated, IIRC. Or is there something about these oils that wouldn't be good for a 4.0L?
 
More ZDDP is more likely to foul out catalytic convertors. That's the main reason they took it out. Also, too much ZDDP may build up ?somehow? on surfaces with bad results. (Sorry, foggy on the details of this molecular concept.)
 
winterbeater said:
I've switched 100k mile motors over to synthetic without any bad consequences. If you read tests on the true tested viscosity of xxW-30 vs xxW-40 at vehicle operating temperatures, you will see there is virtually no difference. The difference is at startup. Don't forget that the owners manuals were written many years before the new oils were even on the market. If you want to know as much opinions about oil as is possible, go spend a few weeks reading forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com.

What I think is funny is how opinions vary with some people trying to flush out perceived gunk with thinners and transmission fluid, MMO, whatever, and others wanting to run super thick oil.

The main reason I swiched to synthetic was to increase time between oil changes, because my collection of old drained oil was getting to be a mess. Yes, I know I can take it in to the oil change stations.
Click to expand...

x2. I agree 100% with your assessment.

I was told many moons ago multi-viscous oil starts out as the base and increases in viscosity through heat by using viscosity thickeners. As these additives break down, the oil becomes thinner over time. Back in the old days when 30W oil was the gold standard to use in normal weather, i.e. Southern California, it would make sense that 15w-50 would be an acceptable oil viscosity for a climate that can range from 30 degrees to 100 degrees from one week to the next.

Point being, the Mobil 1 table indicates there is more Zinc and Phosphorous in their performance oils... especially the higher viscosity oils. If you’re in a climate where you can effectively use 15w-50, why not use the oil that contains a formula with the most protection for flat tappet applications?

Am I missing something?

.
 
91XJRubicXD said:
Using Synthetic oil after using conventional oils for several years isn't a wise choice, especially Mobil 1. First off conventional oils don't have the detergents like that found in Mobil 1 so it would start removing all the build up the motor has created over the years. Once that happens all your rings, oil seals and whatnot's will loose that seal created over the years and your engine will simply be a free flowing oil container without being contained in the right manner. My uncle made the mistake of using that oil after years of conventional and within 3 miles the vehicle was spewing smoke like a factory chimney, the motor needed rebuilt because all the buildup is removed and leaves the motor unsealed like mentioned above. Remember that is high mileage motors I am referring of.
Never use a detergent oil if you've never used prior in the same motor at high mileage.
Check with the original owner of the vehicle if possible to find out what they used as well to save yourself alot of grief.
I use Quaker State 5w30 here on Staten Island, NY and my motor never gets hot, starts regardless of temperatures outside. I live half a block from the ocean and yes tempatures drop well below 0 with the windchill.
Click to expand...

Detergent Oil
Virtually all modern multi-weight oils are detergent oils. Detergent oil, cleans the soot of the internal engine parts and suspends the soot particles in the oil. The particles are too small to be trapped by the oil filter and stay in the oil until you change it. These particles are what makes the oil turn darker. These tiny particles do not harm your engine. When the oil becomes saturated with soot particles and is unable to suspend any more, the particles remain on the engine parts. Fortunately, with the current oil change intervals the oil is changed long before the oil is saturated.


Non-detergent oil, such as SAE 30, is not used in modern passenger vehicle engines. It is still used in some gasoline engines such as lawnmowers.
 
Yeah winterbeater x 1000 on what youve said.

Im running 0w30 castrol edge which is giving me only slightly less pressure than the mobil 0w40 that i had in it before. (to be fair the doctor says in that link that the castrol is a thicker oil than it claims). Both are giving me 40psi on start up.And then fluctuates between a low of 10 and a high of 18 at hot idle but usually it sits at around 14. (700rpm on my car). The mobil was only slightly higher at hot idle

Its only slightly too thick for my liking but the next change im gonna be changing it out for a lighter oil that will hopefully get me a psi to have a low of 8 at a HOT idle. Hopefully i can get it lower whilst driving down the road (from 40) and from start up, but i dont think your gonna see the coveted 10psi per 1000rpm on our cars.

Regarding these light oils, From my dealership they only recommend 5w30 semi or fully synthetic or 0w40 fully synthetic oils for my jeep. They changed from 10w40 years ago.
 
It appears Rotella is still high in ZDDP, but watch out for competitor oils that look the same but have an SM rating.

It becomes contradictory then - SM is low ZDDP, but the packaging still says "high soot," "for diesel use," etc. It's a bit of a bait and switch marketing thing.
 
91XJRubicXD said:
Using Synthetic oil after using conventional oils for several years isn't a wise choice, especially Mobil 1. First off conventional oils don't have the detergents like that found in Mobil 1 so it would start removing all the build up the motor has created over the years. Once that happens all your rings, oil seals and whatnot's will loose that seal created over the years and your engine will simply be a free flowing oil container without being contained in the right manner. My uncle made the mistake of using that oil after years of conventional and within 3 miles the vehicle was spewing smoke like a factory chimney, the motor needed rebuilt because all the buildup is removed and leaves the motor unsealed like mentioned above. Remember that is high mileage motors I am referring of.
Never use a detergent oil if you've never used prior in the same motor at high mileage.
Check with the original owner of the vehicle if possible to find out what they used as well to save yourself alot of grief.
I use Quaker State 5w30 here on Staten Island, NY and my motor never gets hot, starts regardless of temperatures outside. I live half a block from the ocean and yes tempatures drop well below 0 with the windchill.
Click to expand...

I've run MMO and seam from through my motor. As well as filling it half way with ATF.. I don't think there is any gunk left in it. Even after running ATF, and putting clean oil in. the Oil is still nice and clean a week later.. I had hte pan off not long ago and it has some carbon in it. But I cleaned it out.
 
Just something to note... this may be completely unrelated, but the SRT Engineers put out a TSB to run Mobil 1 15w-50 to help the 6.1 Hemi reduce valvetrain noise...

with all this information about flow and oil pressure, why didn't they recommend thinner oil?

Originally Posted By jlandbl:
Can you confirm that using 15w-50 Mobil 1 in warmer weather is acceptable in the Jeep SRT8? I know a TSB came out about using this oil in the LX cars to combat the oil squirter noise but just want to confirm it's also OK in the Jeep before I switch. Also, from your perspective, what are the advantages/ disadvantages to using 15w-50 over 0w-40?

SRT Engineer Answer:
"There is no problem running 15W50, in fact it is emission certified. And If you were truely racing the vehicle , it is the only oil Mobil would recommend."
Click to expand...
 
Hmm, I've got about 117k on the clock and a brand new Alabama head. Thinking I should maybe throw some Rotella Synthetic 5w40 in it... No? Stick w/the 15w40 Rotella T?
 
Ive never heard of this oil squirter noise but i guess its better than hearing knocking or tapping. As far as im aware many european vehicle manufactures are switching to the 0w oils. And its increasingly apparent that engine noises are being increasingly prevented AND cured with thinner oils not always thicker oils as previoulsy accepted.

The 15w 50 oils i guess are for race track conditions or possibly SERIOUS off roading? where engines are put under great stress and heat?

Im not recommending anyone else do this as im not an oil expert by any stretch of the imagination, certainly not as clued up as winterbeater. But the extract that he put in from that ferrai site made more sense to me than any other article. So anyhow, im giving this thin oil a go. Ive gone from 0w40 mobil to 0w30 castrol and mine sounds like a sewing machine. (apart from the cracked exhaust manifold!!) Next im gonna try redline 0w30 or possibly 0w20 as i hear they both have good zddp although i still havent confirmed what it is!!??
For the time being at least, im just gonna concentrate on an oil that gives me good zddp (at least 800 but hopefully 1000). A 0w oil for initial start up. And one that gives me the low psi confirmed with a gauge that im looking for. As this pressure drops over time and the engine gets older, ill switch to a thicker oil. The oil maker is not important to me. Ive heard the stories about leaking oil after switching to fully synthetics or thin oils but i havent experienced it YET. Im of the understanding that if your gaskets and seals are good, then your good to go. And as for putting these thinner oils in an old or tired engine. If it were me i would do it in increments if i knew the engine was sound. Thats just my tuppence worth anyway.
 
Last edited:
Mr tosh,
Read the article that winterbeater put in. The one from the ferrai site. Its written by a doctor whos name escapses me but he will attempt to answer your question. He has BIG RESPECT!!!!

but ultimatley he says
"a 0w40 oil is always better than a 10w40 oil, ALWAYS".

If you read the article he will explain why. As far as im concerned its a very convincing argument.
 
bchulett said:
Just something to note... this may be completely unrelated, but the SRT Engineers put out a TSB to run Mobil 1 15w-50 to help the 6.1 Hemi reduce valvetrain noise...

with all this information about flow and oil pressure, why didn't they recommend thinner oil?
Click to expand...

I would not consider Chrysler engineers to have any more knowledge about oil than we do, due to all the information we have available on the internet. IF they test a motor for wear, if is in the police fleet vehicle in Auburn Hills (by Chrysler headquarters), which hardly ever cool down. And sorry to say this, but all the experienced knowledgable engineers retired. The experience I have with Chrysler decision making is that it is all political based anyway.:soapbox:
 
bchulett said:
VR1 is excellent oil. I've used it in every vehicle for decades until recent... I now regret changing my XJ over to Mobil 1 at 120K miles -- now it leaks.

I used VR1 in my Race Hemi car... 680HP. Oil pressure range was 60-80psi... high flow pump.

.
Click to expand...

Its what I am using in my stroker, but it only has 500 miles on it so far. Oil pressure is good with a stock style pump and lifter bore grooves. After about 6000 miles I may change over to Amsoil though as they have some synthetics with high ZDDP.
 
So what is a good synthetic/synthetic blend that has a good amount of ZDDP(besides the VR1)? According to the guys logic in winterbeaters article a 0 or 5-30/40 would be optimal? Would I be best suited running the Rotella synthetic 5-40? The Durablend 10-40 he mentioned seemed pretty decent as well. I know it basically boils down to personal preference but I want as much protection as possible for the new parts as well as the old.
 
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