Dishonesty at another dealer!

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Pale Horse

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Springfield, Illinois. Home of good ol' Abe Lincol
Ok, here we go! On my first return visit (its been several years) to the stealership :looser: , I went in for an alignment after a nasty railroad crossing that threw the front end out of whack (read: hard right sterring pull) :bawl: . After a brief stay and two cups of coffee, I was done. Now I watched the "tech" as he performed his "alignment", and what a piss poor job he did! A quick test drive, rolled er' in, walked around it once, slapped the heads on, checked the specs, took the heads off, re-drove it and returned. "All done" they said. That'll be fifty bucks please.
What a scam! Some things didn't happen that should have: the tech never raised the jeep to check ANY of the front end parts for damage or looseness. He also didn't check the ball joints or wheel bearings for play. He didn't even check the lousy tire pressure. (yes it can affect vehicle pull) I asked to see the spec sheet, and noticed that by Jeeps' specs it wasn't out of spec, but it was soooooo close (we're talking one tenth of a degree). He could've adjusted it some to help with the pull, but didn't even think about it. Now, after a test drive of my own, the Jeep didn't drive any different :flamemad: and to my amazement, none of the adjusters had been touched :huh: ? They were still covered in mud from my last wheeling trip! Did I miss something?? Ok now I'm pissed! :gonnablow
I went back in, and asked to talk to the service ass..oops I mean manager, and said whats up? After another test drive with the tech that supposedly aligned it, and some words with the head ass :looser: , they confirmed 2 things: a.they couldn't do anything for me (and couldn't remedy the pull because the Jeep was still in spec), and b. they basically stole fifty bucks from me and refused to give it back. So I asked, nothing was done, why the charge? The relpy: "Regardless if the vehicle is aligned or not thats the regular charge". Ok, you didn't align it, don't know how to fix it, what are you gonna do? Then I heard the most audacious bull s**t thing I've ever heard..."Sir, I'm not going to stand here and argue with you about this." This is coming from a five star @#*@#!!* servive manager!
To make a long story longer, I got home, called corporate HQ and explained to them about there leadership qualities and their "5 star service" at this particular dealer. Well, it felt good to talk to them, but yielded little results. They even called the service manager while I was on the phone, talked to him, and he stood firm on his high horse about their pricing and refusal to relinquish my funds. A report was filed about HIM, and sent on its way (I'm betting) to the round file. :passgas:
I now have to get a second opinion and repairs made by another reputable shop and get er' straightened out. Once that is done and overwith, I'll take more actions, but it sucks getting bad service in the first place. My local attorney general is next in line for questions, and I'll see what that brings. :banghead:

LANDMARK CHRYSLER AND GARY PATE SUCK ASS!!! SPREAD THE WORD! :moon:
 
$50, you got off easy. At my dealer it would have been $100 and the big brush off too. What did you ask for? Just an alignment? Or did you ask them to look for any possible damage causing the pull? I am not going to sit here and defend someone who failed to do the basic checks, but there is only so much they can "adjust". The only basic adjustment they can make is toe in. Caster and camber is only adjustable by installing an offset balljoint. If the Jeeps alignment was within spec, the tech should have looked a little closer for any possible bad parts or damage. Is your Jeep lifted? If so, most dealers and repair shops are reluctant to get involved in modified vehicles. Maybe they saw all the mud and just figured you are hard on it and they don't want it to comeback after a repair attempt.

So how bad does it pull? Most Jeeps do have a bit of a pull. My Jeep pulls to the right, always has. It has gone from stock to 3" to 6" with longarms and the pull is still there. I need the offset balljoint, but I don't want to expend the money and time for such a slight pull.

Go to a Goodyear or Firestone tire shop for your alignment, these guys do alignments all day long on older vehicles, and they know what to look for. Most dealer techs align very new cars with new parts and sometimes they get lazy when it comes to doing a thorogh inspection prior to taking the alignment readings.

Again, not to defend the guys for blowing you out, just thought I would give you a different perspective on things.

Bryan
 
Bryan C. said:
$50, you got off easy. At my dealer it would have been $100 and the big brush off too. What did you ask for? Just an alignment? Or did you ask them to look for any possible damage causing the pull? I am not going to sit here and defend someone who failed to do the basic checks, but there is only so much they can "adjust". The only basic adjustment they can make is toe in. Caster and camber is only adjustable by installing an offset balljoint. If the Jeeps alignment was within spec, the tech should have looked a little closer for any possible bad parts or damage. Is your Jeep lifted? If so, most dealers and repair shops are reluctant to get involved in modified vehicles. Maybe they saw all the mud and just figured you are hard on it and they don't want it to comeback after a repair attempt.

So how bad does it pull? Most Jeeps do have a bit of a pull. My Jeep pulls to the right, always has. It has gone from stock to 3" to 6" with longarms and the pull is still there. I need the offset balljoint, but I don't want to expend the money and time for such a slight pull.

Go to a Goodyear or Firestone tire shop for your alignment, these guys do alignments all day long on older vehicles, and they know what to look for. Most dealer techs align very new cars with new parts and sometimes they get lazy when it comes to doing a thorogh inspection prior to taking the alignment readings.

Again, not to defend the guys for blowing you out, just thought I would give you a different perspective on things.

Bryan
Click to expand...
Gotcha! I had my last "allignment" done at a goodyear, took 40 minutes, and they come out and tell me they can't finish the alignment till I get X,Y,Z replaced/done first. They charged me 69 something and I left. Won't ever go back.
 
Yeah I hate dealing with the dealerships. If you ever have any front end issues or need an alignment, I have found good luck at shops that specialize in that area.
 
imma honky said:
Gotcha! I had my last "allignment" done at a goodyear, took 40 minutes, and they come out and tell me they can't finish the alignment till I get X,Y,Z replaced/done first. They charged me 69 something and I left. Won't ever go back.
Click to expand...

So they told you that you had bad/loose parts and they wouldn't align it for you and you think they ripped you off? How is it going to hold the alignment settings with loose parts? They did you a favor. Every good alignment starts with a good inspection.

Rev, you are correct. Help me, I have SPOBIed and need forgiveness. I will point out that there is no way to adjust caster from side to side to help with the pull with this method. The front axle housing won't twist from the adjustment, right?

It is hard to find a good front end/alignment shop and even harder to find a good tech to do it. Look around, it pays to check out a few shops.

Bryan
 
PALE HORSE -
Where you been hiding? I didn't know we had another NAXJA member right here in the Springfield area. I live just outside of Athens and TRL WGN lives near Oakford. We must wheel soon, if not sooner. You are are going to Winterfest, right?
btw: I go to Landmark for the odd part I can't get anywhere else. And that's all!!!
 
OOPS! Just noticed you're not a member. We can fix that easily enough, however.
 
i take my alignment work to a local tire shop...... they DO NOT do repair work.. if they cannot align it because of bad parts its because YOU NEED THEM.... they have nothing to gain by pointing out the worn items except your tire business.... they send you away with a list of what you need.. and yes, they do charge for their time spent with your vehicle, but there is nothing wrong with that... nothing is free...
mike
 
Find an old mechanic (literally an old geezer) and have them do the alignment. That's what I do. They are more willing to actually do any math involved instead of looking at factory specs (no good with a lift and larger tires). A tire shop here wouldn't do my alignment with my lift and 31's, they said I needed a drop pitman arm. RE said "no way, you'll get bump steer. Take it somewhere else and have it done". A local old geezer did it without hesitation and it worked great. Tracked well, steering wheel straight, and no vibrations.
 
I think Pale Horse got ripped off, but because they didn't do a good job of inspecting, not because they overcharged for the alignment. Many shops have a standard price for an alignment, and you pay it whether it's a solid axle jeep that needs nothing but a reading or whether it's a Mercedes with 4 independently alignable wheels and all the threads rusted solid. This is probably one area where "flat rate" pricing helps many of us, as those who get their cars aligned as a matter of habit every time they buy tires are subsidizing those of us who wait until something is wrong.

But any alignment should include an inspection of all the parts that contribute to alignment. Not to do that is like opening up an engine to do a ring job and not bothering to check for cracked pistons.

I take my vehicles to a local Goodyear store. They also sell repairs, so of course they look very carefully for opportunity, but that's a win-win situation if they're honest.
 
I agree that dealerships are way overpriced on parts and labor, but you have to understand that their time is worth something. I used to get upset when I would take an intermitent problem to a shop and they couldn't find the problem but still charged me. I finally saw where they were coming from when I owned my own PC repair business. I would show up someplace and end up chasing somebodies computer ghosts for an hour and never find anything wrong! I would give them a cut rate, but you bet your rear end they got charged something for my time. I was the one with the education, tools, and experience and I didn't get it for free.
Anyway, I feel for you man, but I think that is one of the pitfalls of doing business with a repair shop.

Burley
 
I think we all can go away with an important lesson from this post. I'll tell you what I do to avoid situations just like this.

Before you start taking your rig to a shop call them up or go in. Ask to talk to some of the techs, ask them what they are current on your XJ. I did this when my cruise control failed. I interview the dealer mechanic before I even brought in the 88 XJ for repair. I also owned a second vehicle so I let him have it for as long as he needed.

The key is to get the mechanics to know you as a person. I go into the shop and at times just shoot the breeze with the dealer mechanic. It also helps to bring them something like doughnuts or some hostess stuff. It is amazing how much "extra mile" stuff you get once you start doing stuff like that. Don't be affraid to ask for a specific mechanic once you find one you like.

I will tell you getting an XJ aligned is a real pain, not much that can be adjusted. Like camber is adjusted by changing ball joints. It also a pain to get the steering wheel centered due to the way the linkage is set up. I have no problem taking my XJ back to the shop to say "steering wheel is off center". I have had words with my neighborhood shop and they tried it again till it made me happy.

I also use a local repair shop and develop a relationship with them. You know you could bring in your rig for axle & trans oil changes. Shoot the breeze with them. I had this shop do a compete brake job, rebuild Dana 35 since the outer seal blew and killed the axle bearing, replaced UCAs and LCAs, plus rear suspention bushings. You know stuff that any expereinced mechanic can do. This shop was recommended to me buy a coworker/my old boss. By getting to know the people in the shop they will know you expect good work, and want good parts. It to the point now they are "trained" and I just tell them what needs to be fixed.

Also the worst thing to do is go in with the attitude "you are going to screw me", the people who work there can sense that and know up front you will never be happy. You can get a lot more done if you did the homework up front. I have to say you did sand bag them by not even washing off your XJ before you took it to them to have an alignment. A garden hose or some quarters at the local car wash would of given them clean wheels to deal with. How you bring it in says a lot about you as a customer.
 
On the other hand, what happened to good faith? The mechanic, based on his experience could have warned the customer, before looking at it that the price was flat rate, fix or no. Surely the guy knew the thing may have been in alignment but had another issue. By blowing that off, he lost future work and revenue for his shop. I know some mechanics have the "F 'em" attitude-- we see it all the time-- but it's lousy business and his boss, by allowing it to happen just tells me the place has integrity problems from the top down.
 
pale horse...just a question..have you tried to align it yourself...i do my own. the tie-rod adjustment will fix most problems...tell me what you've done and what it's doing... also, measure the distance between the ft and rear of the front tire...waht are they?
 
I do almost everything on my own because I've had too many awful experiences with shops ripping me off. I'm scared to even own anything more complex because the last truck I had had IFS and I was always paying some shop to do this or that and getting screwed. My wife's car has a warranty and we still get screwed taking it into the dealership. It's a $0 deductible warranty that states if the check engine light comes on you have to take it into the dealership. Problem is, dealer couldn't find any codes in the computer so the warranty doesn't cover it and we're out the $85 to run the scan. RIPOFF.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all your wonderful input on this issue! Now, I used to work for an independent repair facility for several years. And yes, they do have an awesome alignment machine and a good tech that knows his stuff. (this is a plug why you sholudn't "burn your bridges" with past employers) I took my XJ to the shop (where I used to work) for their opinion on the "pull situation" and had them run it up on the machine, and do a full inspection of my front end. Nothing bent, broken, or loose (awesome!....or does that mean I ain't wheeling hard enough?). But the camber was f***ed up pretty good from my collision with the tracks. After and hour and a half dickin' with it and a few adjustments, she' rolling straight down the road (well, with the slight right pull that we all get used too) But nothing compared to the way it was prior. And since me and the ol' x-boss are still in good together, he let me go for a reasonable price. :patriot:
But I still want my fifty bucks back from the dealer. I know its a fruitless conquest, but its the principal of it all. The service manager is an ass, and the tech that "checked" the alignment sucked. What comes around goes around, he'll get whats coming to him. :firedevil
 
xj92 said:
. It's a $0 deductible warranty that states if the check engine light comes on you have to take it into the dealership. Problem is, dealer couldn't find any codes in the computer so the warranty doesn't cover it and we're out the $85 to run the scan. RIPOFF.
Click to expand...

How is it a ripoff for a shop to charge you to inspect your vehicle. It does belong to you and not the shop, right? The scanner at my shop cost over $5000, not to mention the money spent on training me to operate it. Too bad if it isn't covered under the warranty, extended warranties do not cover everything. If it isn't covered, you still owe something for the checkout.

Bryan
 
Pale Horse said:
Nothing bent, broken, or loose (awesome!....or does that mean I ain't wheeling hard enough?). But the camber was f***ed up pretty good from my collision with the tracks. After and hour and a half dickin' with it and a few adjustments,
Click to expand...

Not to be a prick, but...

If nothing was bent loose or broken then how did it get out of adjustment? Something HAD to give.

Camber is NOT adjustable on the XJ, the only way to adjust camber is with off-set ball joints, so what did they adjust to hide the problem?

Again, if I am not getting it, sorry...but it still don't sound right.

Rev
 
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