damage again

[Sting25]

This weeks damage report.

I broke my rear tire carrier off the bumper....Which in turn broke my rear window.....
only a small dent and the window is replaceable..I am not so happy about the design of my bumper at this point. I backed off an a rock in the rock garden at spring creek and hit a tree....I can understand maybe bending it and even it flexing into the window but to actualy break off????

I am over my bumper I guess I get to use my welder and figure out a better way...

Any way all said and done I love my XJ and had a BLAST on spring creek on sunday and did a little playing on carnage and lefthand canyon this morning.

I am waiting for a friend to send me the picks of spring creek.

Anyone know a cheep place to get a 97+ rear window?

 

[Sting25]

pictures

 

[87xjco]

Dang Chris!

That first dent you posted last week was just adding character to your rig!

But know you went and done some real damage and have to spend money, sorry to see that happen!

 

[Sting25]

In my opinion it should not have happend....I think its a faulty desing on the bumpers part......

I have seen people do WAY worse things to thier bumpers....with no damage like this.

I am a little ticked off.

So anyway glad I bought that welder

 

[jdogg4]

could be a # of reasons why it snaped like that. I'd have to see it first hand. Is that a rockstomper hinge?

What kind of wire are you running, and what settings did you have the welder dailed in at?

I've learned to tack stuff up then use a blow toruch or propain bottle and weed burnner unit to heat up the material then weld to it and let it cool down on it's own over time.

I see the breakage is right were the welding ended on the front and back side of it. Odds are if your cold welding the metal like that and the vibration over time had weekend it to the point that it didn't take much to snap it really. That or the way the welds are that the swing open and close and driving wasn't bad but the hit to it from the back like that was all it needed to snap it.

Not that it's good this happend, but better on the trail at 1mph than on the road with traffic.

 

[Sting25]

it dosnt look like its a weld that broke....the bumper sits on a 1.5 inch rod. and bolts down through the middle of it. the rod is broken off at the point that the weld that holds it to the bumbper starts. I wish it had just been a bad weld would be much easyer to fix....

So Rod is welded to the dring bracket. the carrier slipped over the bar and bolted to the top of the bar. the bar itself snapped.


Now that its broken I understand why it did it although not sure why it didnt just bend...I definatly needs a redesign I think. No I dont think its a rockstomper hinge. I dont know if he used someone elses hinge or not...But either way its not going back on in the same manor for sure....

I agree better at 1mph then 70!

could be a # of reasons why it snaped like that. I'd have to see it first hand. Is that a rockstomper hinge?

What kind of wire are you running, and what settings did you have the welder dailed in at?

I've learned to tack stuff up then use a blow toruch or propain bottle and weed burnner unit to heat up the material then weld to it and let it cool down on it's own over time.

I see the breakage is right were the welding ended on the front and back side of it. Odds are if your cold welding the metal like that and the vibration over time had weekend it to the point that it didn't take much to snap it really. That or the way the welds are that the swing open and close and driving wasn't bad but the hit to it from the back like that was all it needed to snap it.

Not that it's good this happend, but better on the trail at 1mph than on the road with traffic.

 

[Sting25]

if you click the images they will get bigger I think you will see what happend...

 

[jdogg4]

Didn’t mean the weld broke. It broke were the weld stops at on the top side of it. When you weld stuff together the weld is typically the strongest part of the whole thing. your rod or wire is a controlled material. Manufactured to a spec that is more accurate or true they call it than standard carbon steel. So when you take part a and part b and join them with C being the welding rod/wire the weld will be stronger and your week points are right were the weld meets the metal. Things that help over come this is heating up the metal before welding it. If both sides are hot the weld will be more “true” or complete they call it. Not sure if I’m explaining it correctly or not. Say you take two items the steel bumper that are cold or room temp. then when the electro current from the wire/rod go through the metal it gets hot right well it’s only heating up the area it’s contacting the arch on for the most part. Heat distributes from that point out. Heating up both sections of metal then welding on them the rode/wire and arch will be doing the welding and not having to HEAT up the metal. That and letting it cool down on it’s own helps out a lot. Some people cool stuff off sooner or faster than needs to and that isn’t the best for strength in metal. That’s kind of what I’m getting two really is keeping the strength or consistency all the way through. You have that welded bead on the bumper to the solid bar part and then the bead on the out side of it. IF not welded properly you’ve weekend the top part were the weld ends and with vibration and the tension of it on that spot when opening and closing it over time it just snapped.
We are an ASME code vassal shop and we do a lot of pre-heating of the pipe we weld on and then after it’s been X-rayed and hydro tested we send it off to be heat treated.

 

[Sting25]

I see, that makes sence I still dont think the rod is going to be strong enough no matter how its welded....Do you disaree?

Chris

Didn’t mean the weld broke. It broke were the weld stops at on the top side of it. When you weld stuff together the weld is typically the strongest part of the whole thing. your rod or wire is a controlled material. Manufactured to a spec that is more accurate or true they call it than standard carbon steel. So when you take part a and part b and join them with C being the welding rod/wire the weld will be stronger and your week points are right were the weld meets the metal. Things that help over come this is heating up the metal before welding it. If both sides are hot the weld will be more “true” or complete they call it. Not sure if I’m explaining it correctly or not. Say you take two items the steel bumper that are cold or room temp. then when the electro current from the wire/rod go through the metal it gets hot right well it’s only heating up the area it’s contacting the arch on for the most part. Heat distributes from that point out. Heating up both sections of metal then welding on them the rode/wire and arch will be doing the welding and not having to HEAT up the metal. That and letting it cool down on it’s own helps out a lot. Some people cool stuff off sooner or faster than needs to and that isn’t the best for strength in metal. That’s kind of what I’m getting two really is keeping the strength or consistency all the way through. You have that welded bead on the bumper to the solid bar part and then the bead on the out side of it. IF not welded properly you’ve weekend the top part were the weld ends and with vibration and the tension of it on that spot when opening and closing it over time it just snapped.
We are an ASME code vassal shop and we do a lot of pre-heating of the pipe we weld on and then after it’s been X-rayed and hydro tested we send it off to be heat treated.

 

[jdogg4]

I myself would have never welded that hinge on the way even if it was done even using proper heating and welding methods that’s not an ideal place or way to mount that hinge. And In all honesty it could have been a fluke you know with the you hit it and all. But all your weight looks to be on the driver side and the hinge on the passenger side. Over time vibration on that spot were the welds are will create a slow weakening Vibration testing in the welding industry is on a rise. We do a lot of ASME code vessel repair jobs on units that have been installed years ago because vibration technology on a lot of this stuff hadn’t been streamlined like it is now for welding procedures. I’ve done a few and have always welded them through rec tubing never on the end of a mount like that. So far I haven’t had anyone come back to me and shown me that they have busted. I do a top and bottom weld. Mine that I have done have been mounted to TJs. I’m about to crack into a rear bumper/tire carrier for my XJ and still going over a few different options on how to go about it.

 

[Hypoid]

Yeah, what jdogg said...I'm seeing two colors across the diameter of the pin, is that rust? This fracture has been waiting to happen. The darker color rust is evidence of that. It also gives a point of origin: The side opposite the tire.

jdogg kind of walked around the primary problem with local heating, so I'm gonna spit it out in a very non-technical fashion. Carbon in the parent material will draw to the heat at the weld site. The more carbon in the parent material, the more carbon you have at the weld site. The more carbon you have at the weld site, the more brittle it becomes. That's why your pin snapped instead of bending.

I think you get the scenario: Poor QC doesn't cause total failure, it allows failure to start.

Learning from this experience, I think I'd try something different also. If you want, I can score some 7/8" mild steel rod from the scrap bin.

Let me know, Mike

 

[Sting25]

Sigh, I am thinking about trailer spindles at the moment...and waiting to see what the companies response is and what they suggest.

The rust that is there is obviously more then when it first happened but there was some discoloration in the places you noticed.

Window just set me back just shy of $300 and I still need to get it tinted grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…..There went my ½ of my winch.

 

[Sting25]

OK he has offerd to send me a new pin to reweld on...I am hoping he accepts my wish to figure out a better way.. But am happy with the prompt customer support.

 

[98POSXJ]

You spent that much on a rear window? and now have to get it tinted? Dude I woulda sold you mine for less than that becasue at my going rate of wheeling im not gonna have any windows soon and will probably end up just chopping the back off in the nearish future!