Culvers

[Frank Z]

This is an email that my neighbor, an El Paso County Sheriffs Deputy, sent me today. No more Culvers for my family!
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark R.
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 3:31 PM

Today my wife, Kathy, and I went into a local "Culvers" hamburger restaurant to purchase food to take home. While crossing the parking lot to enter the restaurant, we noticed the American flag being flown at full staff. This seemed odd due to the fact that a Colorado Springs Police Officer had been killed earlier in the week and services had not yet been held for him. It is common practice to show respect by flying flags at half-staff until services are conducted.

We asked the cashier at the counter why the flag was not at half-mast and she referred us to the manager of the restaurant. The manager identified only as "Mark" indicated he had nothing in writing and wasn't sure if other establishments were flying their flags at half staff because of the police officer or because it had been the anniversary of Pearl Harbor a few days ago. His attitude and behavior towards a citizen of the community who was asking a simple question about respecting officers was offensive. This "manager" attempted to justify his behavior by stating he was a 30-year veteran of the military and he was sensitive to the protocols of such situations. During this conversation, the "manager" became extremely rude and sarcastic.

It was very clear his understanding of the everyday risks that a law enforcement officer faces was non-existent. His attitude and condescending speech indicated he was more worried about selling hamburgers than showing respect for a fallen officer who protected this community each time he put the uniform on.

We will NEVER purchase any items from this establishment again and ask you to please consider this incident before you spend your money at a "Culvers". Please forward this email to anyone who does respect and appreciate what our Law Enforcement Officers do for our communities.

Mark & Kathy R.

 

[sappersly]

I guess Fort Carson soldiers don't matter then. If we wrote letters and told people not to go places because they didn't fly there flags at half mass.... Wow, there would be a lot less business in Colorado Springs.

 

[Frank Z]

Of course they do, and I'm not suggesting otherwise.

As a former Marine you'll never hear me say otherwise.

The death of anyone that is serving our country or our community is something we should all be affected by on some level. This particular scenerio hits close to home because it happened at home. This officer wasn't in a foriegn land, he was right here on our streets doing a job most of us aren't cut out to do, not unlike what you and the rest of our servicemen and awomen are asked to do.... A job that is important to all of us but only a small number are willing to do.

This is not intended to be a post that pitts one group versus another.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Thanks for clearing that up Frank. I was a bit concerned where you were going with your post myself.

As a cop myself, I appreciate seeing the community show their respect and concern for the jobs we and the Military do. But I gotta say, I think that El Paso Deputy was way outta line for even bringing it up. If we embrace his point of view about the flag and it's position on the pole, then the flag should never be flown at anything but half-staff in memory of ALL those in Law Enforcement and the Military that made the ultimate sacrifice in the past, and die each day in Iraq.

Yes, I believe that anyone or any place that erects a flag pole and flies our flag should embrace it's significance and be sensitive enough to use it appropriately. Yeah, maybe the manager was a bit arrogant and that's unfortunate, but I think it was outta line to confront the establishment and essentially "demand" an explanation for an action that is voluntary. I think it would have been more appropriate to contact the owner of Culver's and simply state his disappointment with their not placing more importance on how they display their flag.

I'm sure that CSPD officer wouldn't expect anyone to be confronted for this kind of issue. I know I wouldn't.

 

[XJFire]

is that the place on powers? that pisses me off dude

 

[Frank Z]

Yeah, that's the one. He's already fired off an email to the "Head Office."

 

[roberbober]

I think that we should be grateful that they are even flying a U.S flag. Most establishments could give a damn about the flag, or what it stands for. I'm just glad so see people flying it. But on that note if I had a dollar for every time I have seen a U.S flag displayed improperly I would be rich. hahaha

 

[XJFire]

if he really cared he woulda said oh my bad and fixed it

 

[RockTracXJ]

Flag code: http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

From here: http://www.flagguys.com/etiq.html#halfstaff
the following:



Half Staffing: Private and Local, who can authorize it?


Answer: We are often asked if it is proper to half staff flags privately for family members, employees or members of an organization. This is among the toughest questions that arise. Regarding who can order a half-staffing and when, The Flag Code does spell out many specifics. But it does say The President is not the only one who can order a half staffing. It gives governors the right also. Many state laws provide for governors being able to order half staff also. However keep in mind, orders from The President or any other government official apply to government flags only. The President and the Federal Government can not order that citizens half staff a flag. Who says so? The White House

It would seem to follow that if The President or The Federal Government can not order private citizens to participate in a government half staffing then they can also not prohibit a private one. But is it proper to half staff flags absent a governmental decree? In indicating when a flag should be half staffed, The flag code spells out many specific instances. But then it gives us the the vague instance described as "in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law" to indicate when a flag may be half staffed. "Recognized customs" can mean a lot of things and indeed in practice it means different things to different people when it comes to local or personal half staffings. Some people object to them. Some would focus on The Code's mentioning only the "death of other officials or foreign dignitaries." The Code is silent altogether regarding the deaths of persons who are not an official or foreign dignitary.

There are two schools of thought regarding private half staffing. I can not tell you which is right. There is no right or wrong. I can teach you the controversy. One school of thought maintains that localized and private half staffings deplete the meaning of half staffing as a national or statewide event. I notice this situation around our town when sometimes the flags are up and down every other week and no one knows the meaning. This school of thought maintains that The Flag is a national symbol and its use as a symbol of mourning should be reserved for widespread national or at least statewide events. Those who belong to this school of thought say the best way to display local private mourning is to affix a black mourning streamer to the flag, a technique also recognized in army regulations.

The other school does not hold to the notion of reserving half staffing for events as announced by government authority such as The President or a governor. In practice, personal half staffings are done every day.

As far as how long a period of time is appropriate for a personal half staffing, there is no answer to be found in published protocol because the very practice itself is not specifically spelled out. As a guideline, The Flag Code creates a pecking order in the event of government half staffings. It calls for a 30 day half staffing for a president or former president, 10 days for the speaker of the house, down to one day for a member of congress. Where a private individual would fit in this protocol is anyone's opinion.

As free people, the entire matter is left up to our own discretion and the dictates of our own consciousness. It is not against any law or code I know for private flags to be half staffed for private events. Nor does any code of which I am aware spell out how to properly do it.

For the record, here is verbatim what The Flag Code says about half staffing:

Title 4> Chapter 1> § 7

m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection—
(1) the term “half-staff” means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;
(2) the term “executive or military department” means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and
(3) the term “Member of Congress” means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.

 

[pabloconrad]

It's not about rules or regulations, it's about respect. Respect for those who serve (not food) their community and country.

If any flag were to be flown at half-staff, then the Colorado State flag should have been. It was a sad and tragic event for sure, but it was more local than national.

It is true flying the flag at halfstaff willy-nilly does weaken its meaning as you get used to seeing it there. But what wrong is there flying it so after the on-duty death of a police officer?

Out of respect, it should be flown at half-staff.

As for the restaurant owner, he may not have known (not everyone pays attention to the news), and if he does, it's his free speech liberties to fly or not to fly.

As it is mine not to go there for lunch.

 

[Hypoid]

You are lucky to live in a community where this is an issue. How many other communities would reflect the store manager's attitude?

The Springs has kind of a sleepy image for this mortality rate. In other industries heads would be rolling over two fatalities in such a short time. People who are in positions of responsibility have to be agonizing over policy and protocall right now. I know I would be wondering how safety protocalls failed to protect those two officers.