Confused about bump steer

[Vanimal]

i wouldnt ditch the pitman arm, the angles look like they'll be pretty close with only ditching the lower track bar bracket.

 

[rockclimber]

The dpa is screwing you also. Dan, the connection point on the pitman is too low. You new to look at the pivot point of the TRE. That is where you look at the angle, and from that picture it is well below the panhard. That looks like a 1/2"-1" over stock drop... Not much, but with that dumbass axle side TB bracket on there it's making it worse.

Im not a fan of re-drilling the oem bracket, I much prefer an adjustable TB. But if you can't afford one, I'd rather you redrill it than not.

 

[cal]

On the kits I do, the track bar is moved to the steering stab location on the diff and the stab moved. That location shares the same pivot area as the steering. Get them both in the same area and the bumpsteer will mostly go away. Your current track bar on the diff is in the stock location while the steering pivot is well above it.

I've done many of these kits and there is zero bumpsteer.

Nothing you said makes sense, so post up some pictures..

 

[XJLI]

Nothing you said makes sense, so post up some pictures..

this is what the old skyjacker trackbar kit did. i put one in on my old jeep before i knew any better, and hot damn it was scary to drive. drove it around the block and took it out and got a JKS trackbar secondhand for cheap.

 

[jbsjunk]

Pretty simple. The track bar diff location is mounted to the existing steering stab mount and the stab mount is relocated. With stock y-type steering and 4 1/2" lift or better, this is a prime location and eliminates most if not all bumpsteer. If people can't see this, it's not my problem. Look at where the drivers tie rod and drag link meet. Someone asked, I offered my experienced opinion and I get crap for it. Must be the XJ version of Pirate.

 

[cal]

can't hotlink to cherokee forums hosted stuff..

 

[cal]

oh. you mean stabilizer mount. If you don't make up abbreviations on the fly people will understand what you mean.


THAT IS A VERY BAD IDEA. That mount is barely strong enough for the steering stabilizer.

 

[rockclimber]

Pretty simple. The track bar diff location is mounted to the existing steering stab mount and the stab mount is relocated. With stock y-type steering and 4 1/2" lift or better, this is a prime location and eliminates most if not all bumpsteer. If people can't see this, it's not my problem. Look at where the drivers tie rod and drag link meet. Someone asked, I offered my experienced opinion and I get crap for it. Must be the XJ version of Pirate.

your opinion is entirely incorrect and you clearly have no idea how the steering and suspension of an XJ works.

sorry if I don't sugar-coat it.. but someone might actually listen to you and then kill themselves.

where the Tie-rod and drag link meet does not matter at all.

the line between the connection points of the pitman arm and knuckle vs the frame side and axle side panhard (trackbar) mounts is what matters.

provided the pitman arm and knuckle side of the Drag link and frame side TB mount are not changed, there is no reason to change where the axle side of the TB mounts.

 

[Comanchedude]

here is some info that may help you , i did a custom steering setup on my Comanche and this info helped me understand what and why you could get "bump steer". its the length and the angle of the parts..there is no just align up one side and it works.. both the track bar and the tire rod can be at same angle but unless they are identical length and attachment points it don't matter. as you lift your Jeep you change the factory setup..now the system is out of phase. you need to correct that. i can tell you that i went to a custom system after years of unsatisfactory steering performance. at 6" of lift you really need to redo the factory system totally.I run a JB coversions Hi steer knucle adapter and custom made track bar,mount, and steering linkage and it is a dream! totally perfect . but here is the info to get you understanding.
http://bulletproofsteering.com/geometry.html

 

[rockclimber]

Wtf does the tie-rod have to do with it? :doh:

 

[Comanchedude]

I recon your replying to my post. A tie rod is a part of the steering system it usually connects two TREs.. that's a tie rod end. the statement is you will see alot of people draw a line showing the angel of their tierod and track bar. the thinking is if they are at the same angle all is good. this information is not correct. due to the fact that the relationship between the two parts have more involved than just the angle . after someone raises the suspension above stock, the "stock" operating relationship between the parts are no longer valid. this is due to there difference in length and geometry . the diagram link will help you understand. im sure you have some smart ass reply ,,but i take it all as free entertainment.

Wtf does the tie-rod have to do with it? :doh:

 

[rockclimber]

I recon your replying to my post. A tie rod is a part of the steering system it usually connects two TREs.. that's a tie rod end. the statement is you will see alot of people draw a line showing the angel of their tierod and track bar. the thinking is if they are at the same angle all is good. this information is not correct. due to the fact that the relationship between the two parts have more involved than just the angle . after someone raises the suspension above stock, the "stock" operating relationship between the parts are no longer valid. this is due to there difference in length and geometry . the diagram link will help you understand. im sure you have some smart ass reply ,,but i take it all as free entertainment.

My smart ass reply is:

You are talking about the draglink, not the tie-rod. The tie-rod has nothing to do with bumpsteer. But thanks for telling me what one is :doh:... Did you even read the rest of the thread?
you are saying. Things that have been said in this thread before.

And while your theory is correct, in order to have no bumpsteer the panhard and DRAGLINK must be parallel, the same length and be mounted on the same plane, there is no jeep out there that has a large enough range of motion to see any bumpsteer if they are not quite the same length or mounted on the same plane.

 

[Comanchedude]

rockclimber

It’s a tie rod, drag link same thing different words. in the case of this discussion they do the same thing they push and pull, and connect ..its like “tater” “potato” same thing no need to try to get anal.
call moog tell them they got it wrong why your at it

MOOG Part # DS1238 Problem Solver; Rod Assembly, Right Hand Threads
Moog tie rods feature a patented cover-plate design that captures the full-ball stud between the upper and lower bearings, eliminating axial clearance or “lash.” This design consistently produces just the right amount of preload, providing proper steering effort over the life of the part. Moog tie rod housings are forged from specific materials and then heat-treated, obtaining the most desirable grain structure for strength and durability. Wrench flats are added for ease of installation, and most applications include a castle nut and/or cotter pins for a more secure installation.

 

[rockclimber]

rockclimber

It’s a tie rod, drag link same thing different words. in the case of this discussion they do the same thing they push and pull, and connect ..its like “tater” “potato” same thing no need to try to get anal.
call moog tell them they got it wrong why your at it

Sorry dude. You are completely wrong. Tie-rod and drag link are not the same thing. The ends they use have little to do with their names or functions.

 

[WAZZUXJ]

The TIE ROD is the rod that connects or TIES the two steering knuckles together.

The DRAG LINK is the link between the pitman arm and one of the knuckles (or Y-connects to the tie rod) that drags (push/pulls) the knuckles left or right.

A TIE ROD END is used on both the drag link and tie rod.

I follow two simple rules of steering (and in this order):

1 - Keep the drag link and tie rod as close to parallel as possible. Increased Y angle between them decreases steering leverage. The steeper the drag link angle the more force is sent downward (poor steering/ decreased control) rather than sent laterally (easier steering/ improved control)

2 - Mount the track bar parallel to the drag link.

 

[PahlMc]

Bumping an old thread with a somewhat specific question. I have a drop pitman arm and drop track bar mount so they are close in position. I am going to build new heim steering and I have a dilemma.

Do I run the drag link all the way to the pass spindle making it 3" longer than the track bar I have or just build a 34" long drag link to match the track bar and make it an inverted T?

One gives me a dead spot and the other bump steer. Anyone know how bad the bump steer might be with a 3"
Difference?

I have 5.5" rubicon express lift but the drop arm and track bar mount make the drag link angle tolerable.

 

[rockclimber]

Bumping an old thread with a somewhat specific question. I have a drop pitman arm and drop track bar mount so they are close in position. I am going to build new heim steering and I have a dilemma.

Do I run the drag link all the way to the pass spindle making it 3" longer than the track bar I have or just build a 34" long drag link to match the track bar and make it an inverted T?

One gives me a dead spot and the other bump steer. Anyone know how bad the bump steer might be with a 3"
Difference?

I have 5.5" rubicon express lift but the drop arm and track bar mount make the drag link angle tolerable.

I would vote for the 3" difference. the amount of bumpsteer will be minimal.

the flatter you can get the drag link/panhard, the better.

I dislike inverted T.

 

[PahlMc]

Even with heims the inverted T sucks? I hate bump steer (I used to race class 5 and 1400). I'm fighting the feeling and trying to listen to you all the Jeep experts!

 

[SolarBell]

I have an inverted T steering with heims. Even with delrin spacers there is still a dead spot. It's not bad but definitely still there. The tie rod roll gets worse the more lift you have, so the flatter the better.

Another option is to rebuild the frame side track bar mount and move it an inch or two outboard. Then you get most or all of the 3" back.

 

[PahlMc]

Okay that's two votes for a little bump steer and going to the spindle from the pitman arm. I guess I can try it out and if I hate the bump steer buy one new bung and try the inverted T.

Any other insight or votes? I'm going I buy the material next weekend.